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Sonicstage Vs Digital

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3monkeyheads

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Hello MD community

I have been a MD addict for a long time. I wont purchase an IPOD just coz everyone has one smile.gif MD will fit my needs and do much more.. I prefer the recording features and optical waves. One thing I noticed is people are using SonicStage to transfer the music over to their units.

I have installed the software but before I give it a shot. I like to know

1. How fast does it send the files across to the unit?

2. Do they retain their original encoded quality?

3. Do the ID tags of the mp3's appear on the unit on playback?

4. Can I send any mp3 files to the unit? are there any restrictions?

The reason I ask these questions is because I have been burning dvd's with mp3's - then recording them via optical to the MD. But of course this is slow, because you have to playback the dvd as if you were listening to it. But the quality is immaculate!!

Cheers

& Happy MD trails

mellow.gif

Edited by 3monkeyheads
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Welcome 3Monkeyheads

1. How fast does it send the files across to the unit?

as Hi-MD are connected using a USB1 connection, never faster than USB1 max. Precise speeds depend on the type of Atrac used, and whether there would be any conversion needed (there would be when trying to put MP3's on a NH700)

2. Do they retain their original encoded quality?

no...with an NH700 you can not play MP3's, so they would have to be converted to some type of Atrac prior to/during transfer. Even when choosing a very high bitrate Atrac (Hi-SP), you would be converting from one lossy compression format to another, which means degradation of quality. The views on how big/noticable this quality degradation is, differ significantly. Even when using 2nd generation Hi-MD's (which do allow MP3 playback without conversion) some ppl prefer to convert their MP3's to Atrac (saves on battery life and sound degradation is to small to merrit the higher energy consumption)

3. Do the ID tags of the mp3's appear on the unit on playback?

I really wouldn't know, sorry...I'm one of those very strange ppl that don't have even one MP3 on my PC. (and Im not going to create one just to answer this question tongue.gif , as I have got a life, albeit a very small one)

4. Can I send any mp3 files to the unit? are there any restrictions?

Let's get one thing straight, you cannot send an MP3 as an MP3 to your unit (it's 1st gen Hi-MD that won't allow MP3 playback, if you really want this, sell your current player and upgrade to 2nd gen) so we're talking about conversion to Atrac and transferring. Seems (according to some threads on MDCF) that Variable Bitrate MP3's and some other type (don't remember what, as I had never heard of it before...but I'm no MP3 user laugh.gif ) of MP3 can't be understood by SonicStage. They will have to be converted to non-VB, straight forward, MP3's (or wav, or any other format SS does understand) before conversion/transfer...

The reason I ask these questions is because I have been burning dvd's with mp3's - then recording them via optical to the MD. But of course this is slow, because you have to playback the dvd as if you were listening to it. But the quality is immaculate!!

Logically thinking, this way, the DVD-player decodes the MP3, converts to PCM to play (correct me if I'm wrong sleep.gif ), transports the PCM digitally (through optical cable) to your Hi-MD... If this is correct, the same could be achieved by converting your MP3's to wav (= no sound degradation, as wav = lossless) with a (good!) MP3-wav converter, importing the wav's in SS and transferring (or making a CD-image and Simple Burner to get 'em onto Hi-MD)

There would still be a losy step, the transfer of a (limited 'cause made from MP3) wav to Atrac, but this step is also present when using your old method: optical signal (= PCM from MP3, therefore somewhat limited PCM=wav) into Hi-MD which conversts to Atrac (using the internal hardware encoder)... so (without imroving the sound quality), you could skip a few steps...but I'm not really sure whether that would actually speed uo things, as MP3->wav conversion can take some time (depending on the program used I guess)...

hope this helps,

Volta

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MD discs (original ones, haven't ever used Hi-MD) only have a TITLE feature for each song, you can type whatever you want in there, but normally it just puts the title and you have edit in the artist if you want it.

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Hello MD community

I have been a MD addict for a long time. I wont purchase an IPOD just coz everyone has one smile.gif MD will fit my needs and do much more.. I prefer the recording features and optical waves. One thing I noticed is people are using SonicStage to transfer the music over to their units.

I have installed the software but before I give it a shot. I like to know

1. How fast does it send the files across to the unit?

2. Do they retain their original encoded quality?

3. Do the ID tags of the mp3's appear on the unit on playback?

4. Can I send any mp3 files to the unit? are there any restrictions?

The reason I ask these questions is because I have been burning dvd's with mp3's - then recording them via optical to the MD. But of course this is slow, because you have to playback the dvd as if you were listening to it. But the quality is immaculate!!

Cheers

& Happy MD trails

mellow.gif

1) Faster than realtime, but speed depends on size of file, therefore atrac quality used. Better quality atrac = slower

2) When you record them realtime you are recording mp3's to atrac. This same process will happen in sonicstage, the only limitation is that sonicstage does not allow true sp transfer. So as long as you don't do them in sp, the outcome will be the same as you have presently.

3) Tracks are named and appear in album folders.

4) I believe things sometimes go wrong for very low bitrates, but most mp3's will load into sonicstage and be converted to atrac quite happily!

Pretty much the same answers as The Low Volta, but a bit more concise tongue.gif

Edited by matrulesok
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Thanks everyone for the support.

Except you havent clarified the 4th question.

What I mean by 'restrictions' is copy protected material. Can ANY mp3 file be transfered to the MD player? I mean 'everything!'

mellow.gif

maybe I should re-phrase it a little 'Can ANY mp3 file be converted to Atrac mode, for transfering to the MD player via SonicStage?'

and.....

When sending music (recorded on the MD) back to the pc via SonicStage, which format is the song? Does it allow you to save it as MP3?

Cheers!!

Edited by 3monkeyheads
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Except you havent clarified the 4th question.

hmm, thought I had...

Let's get one thing straight, you cannot send an MP3 as an MP3 to your unit (it's 1st gen Hi-MD that won't allow MP3 playback, if you really want this, sell your current player and upgrade to 2nd gen) so we're talking about conversion to Atrac and transferring. Seems (according to some threads on MDCF) that Variable Bitrate MP3's and some other type (don't remember what, as I had never heard of it before...but I'm no MP3 user) of MP3 can't be understood by SonicStage. They will have to be converted to non-VB, straightforward, MP3's (or wav, or any other format SS does understand) before conversion/transfer...

so whether you can put an MP3 on your MD is actually a question whether you can convert that MP3 to another format (Atrac or PCM) or not...as your (1st gen) Hi-MD WON'T play MP3's at all, they will always have to be converted but I see you get this bit...

maybe I should re-phrase it a little 'Can ANY mp3 file be converted to Atrac mode, for transfering to the MD player via SonicStage?'

so that leaves us with your question...

What I mean by 'restrictions' is copy protected material. Can ANY mp3 file be transfered to the MD player? I mean 'everything!'

to be honest, I don't know...I simply don't know how copy protected MP3's work, as I don't use MP3... but I guess you could alway try: you could use an audio-editing program and try to import an MP3 and save it as wav, or you could use a fine little program that simplifies this conversion (can be found in the downloads sction, but the name escapes me right now) or you could just throw some MP3's that you doubt into SS and see what happens...

I have installed the software but before I give it a shot.
as you already have installed the software and have a Hi-MD, why all these questions...just try and learn a bit...no harm can come from that

When sending music (recorded on the MD) back to the pc via SonicStage, which format is the song? Does it allow you to save it as MP3?

No, it is Atrac or PCM (whichever you chose to convert to). and further, what do you mean with music recorded on the MD? MP3's you downloaded or music recorded with a mic? The former... I would say, use the original MP3 instead for further actions... the latter, you can save your own recordings as wav in SS (3.0 at least) and convert that into whatever you want, or you could use Marcnet's Hi-MD renderer (see the downloads section again) which allows to convert atrac to MP3 I believe...

but again, as you have already bought the player and have the software installed... why not try something before you come here and expect ppl to spend their time trying to answer these questions, most of which you could easily have tested yourself... if after testing some questions remain, ppl would be much more willing to help you with 'em...

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Yes, my answers will be slightly different from the others.

1. How fast does it send the files across to the unit?

Reformatted MDs write at 4.37Mbps;

HiMD 1GB discs write at 9.83Mbps.

To give a basis for comparison, a CD reading at 1x runs at just below 1.5Mbps.

You can count on an iPod transferring data at well above 10x the speed of HiMD, basically as fast as any USB or firewire hard disc will run at.

In more real-world terms: it takes 30-60 minutes to fill a 1GB disc; it takes about 10-15 minutes to fill a reformatted MD80.

The more tracks you are transferring, the longer it takes as there is more disc activity.

2. Do they retain their original encoded quality?

For gen.1 HiMDs - assuming you mean MP3s, no. You have to transcode the audio to one of the atrac/3/plus variants in order for it to be playable on the units.

As with all things, GIGO - if the MP3 you're transcoding is crap to begin with, it will end up being worse.

On the other hand, if the MP3 you're transcoding is of good quality, chances are you won't notice a big difference with HiSP.

IMO, HiLP 64 and 48kbps always sound like crap, even straight from a CD source.

For gen.2 HiMDS - yes. You can download MP3s with SonicStage without transcoding at all.

3. Do the ID tags of the mp3's appear on the unit on playback?

Assuming the files were tagged properly in the first place, yes.

SonicStage still has the tendency to mutilate tags sometimes for no apparent reason [like ignoring track numbers].

4. Can I send any mp3 files to the unit? are there any restrictions?

SonicStage is capable of dealing with almost any non-DRM'd MP3. There can be problems with weird bitrates, files that are not at 44.1kHz sampling rate, and VBR files, and these problems can be exacerbated by having multiple system codecs for MP3 and such.

For all intents and purposes, there are no limitations, though. As long as the MP3 itself is "standard", i.e. it is not encrypted for DRM or anything [in which case it wouldn't play on anything other than the device or software it's been made for anyway] it should work.

I have come across very few MP3s that don't download correctly straight from SS, being transcoded to HiSP for my NH700. Most of the problematic ones came from specific encoders that seem to be the root of the problem. I have never had difficulty with VBR files, myself.

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volta thank you very much for your support you have identified my questions and answered them well.. thanks again!!

on the other hand DEX.. excellent job, very concise and to the point.. just what i was looking for..

incase you people are wondering 'so why would the dumbass install the software then ask questions' which is the same as 'shoot first and ask questions later'..

well simple, coz i came here first and saw everyone whinning about problems with sonicstage bla blah.. and that it erases your mp3 collection etc.. so i had to raise my questions before diving head first smile.gif hope that makes sense

thx again!!!

great support here.

i'll recommend it to my friends rolleyes.gif

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well simple, coz i came here first and saw everyone whinning about problems with sonicstage bla blah.. and that it erases your mp3 collection etc.. so i had to raise my questions before diving head first smile.gif hope that makes sense

ah, 'fear of whiping out an entire Music collection' that actually constitutes as a very good reason in my book, so sorry if I seemed a little harsh, but I hadn't heard that problem before... but then again, I'm no MP3 user

thx again!!!

great support here.

i'll recommend it to my friends rolleyes.gif

thank you for those kind words happy.gif ... MDCF is actually one of the most polite and helpfull forums I've come across until now...

greetings, Volta

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