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Skradgee

What Would You Like to See In 3rd Gen Hi-MD?

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i know it makes a noticeable difference, but is it really that great?

Yes for me it is. I prefer the clarity of the Sharp auvi amp, but I think the Sony hd-amp is on par with it. I'll wait 'til x-mas season for Sharp to release any kind of hi-md equipment but if they don't then I will have to choose Sony. I don't want to give up listening enjoyment for more space to record music so I need a player with a hd-amp. Granted, the eh1 player has it but I don't care for the battery life.

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Yes for me it is.  I prefer the clarity of the Sharp auvi amp, but I think the Sony hd-amp is on par with it.  I'll wait 'til x-mas season for Sharp to release any kind of hi-md equipment but if they don't then I will have to choose Sony.  I don't want to give up listening enjoyment for more space to record music so I need a player with a hd-amp.  Granted, the eh1 player has it but I don't care for the battery life.

thats probably one of the trade-offs though, HD-AMP might require more power to run

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Thanks, Skradgee, for starting this thread. I've been following it but only just now get around to adding my 2 cents: in 3rd gen units, I would like to see an option of voiced menus for vision impaired users. With this option enabled, the blind user would hear (by way of a sythesized voice) what the sighted users sees as he/she navigates the menus on the main unit or the remote. This feature would benefit sighted users also, allowing them to make full use of their units in total darkness.

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I agree with:

- Focus on main functions of the format (no camera for me...)

- Manual recording levels remembered between two pressings of stop

- A 2second keypress to toggle AGC/manual levels or, even better, remember the setting as per above

- An optional dedicated recording remote

- Porting the software to java or other platform independent language

- Firmware upgradability

- Loosen up on the DRM nonsense. Why protect mp3 files? They are lossy and shared everywhere anyway.

- A way to upload (analog) recordings made on old-style md media

- 2GB discs would be great for no-worries recording in PCM, not to mention on-the-go jukebox

and I would like to add the following requests:

- A new playback mode: Select a group at random and within that group play the tracks sequentially. Then move on to a new group, and so on. (With Hi-MD discs and the reasonably good sound quality in Hi-LP mode you can bring a lot of albums on one disc. The function would play random albums with all its tracks in order. It shouldn't be too hard/expensive to implement.)

- Drag-and-drop of supported files (mp3 etc) in explorer without having to go through sonic stage.

My main wish is for the new playback mode, though.

Cheers,

    /Daniel Enochsson (Proud owner of a MZ-NH900 tongue.gif .)

- Hi-MD and Memory Stick Duo combi in mode Atrac3plus and MP3

- speed Hi-EP mode

- Bluetooth (headphone, car audio, cellphones and remote wireless)

- IrDA (remote recording wireless)

- Hi-MD and micro HDD combi in mode Atrac3plus and MP3

- Dolby Digital Headphone

- Add audio AAC compression

- Add Hi-MD Video

- Hi-MD 2.6GB and 4.7GB one disc capacity (for Hi-MD Video)

- DV [recording DCT format] and MPEG2/4 (for Hi-MD Video and Hi-MD Photo only like MZ-DH10P)

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I'd like to see:

Hi-MD high quality decks

For portables:

True line out - ie. with dedicated socket

SP recording mode (plus Hi-MD formats)

Built-in DAB digital radio

2 GB discs

All-metal construction

5 line LCD

6 band graphics equaliser

No European volume restrictions

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I would like a Hi-MD home deck and car deck.

Less restrictions on my own personal recordings, unlimited uploads and downloads if using Sonic Stage.

True SP

Dedicated line in and line out

Bring back the NH1, or something similar for 3dr gen>

Record on the remote.

Don't need camera or toys on my unit, straight functionality.

The ability for use on any platform,Mac, Linux, Windoze. Until my linux disc died it would see and identify my minidisc unit but wouldn;t let me do anything to it.

Uncripple the world markes so anyone can buy from anyone.

Bob

I agree with daniel_cello and bobt

Platform Winzozz, iMac, Linux and SOLARIS

Line-IN and Line-OUT and add REMOTE like data-recorder for computer vintage (ZX Spectrum, MSX and others)

Add Hi-MD and modem combi with Wi-Fi, we need to download new files MP3 or Atrac3 without computer and noalso SS like adaptor USB OTG without PC

Add DAB tuner (MZ-RHFxxx or MZ-NHFxxx)

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I'd like to see:

Hi-MD high quality decks

For portables:

True line out - ie. with dedicated socket

SP recording mode (plus Hi-MD formats)

Built-in DAB digital radio

2 GB discs

All-metal construction

5 line LCD

6 band graphics equaliser

No European volume restrictions

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I'd like to see:

Hi-MD high quality decks

For portables:

True line out - ie. with dedicated socket

SP recording mode (plus Hi-MD formats)

Built-in DAB digital radio

2 GB discs

All-metal construction

5 line LCD

6 band graphics equaliser

No European volume restrictions

Also I agree with KJ_Palmer

Council 2.6GB discs

Attention!: Data-recorder for computer (LINE-IN, LINE-OUT e REMOTE), but Sinclair ZX Spectrum and ZX80-81 haven't connector Remote

True MONO in mode MD?

Compatible old discs MD Data, MD Data 2, MD View for playback only (Hi-MD 3rd normal)

Compatible old discs MD Data, MD Data 2, MD View for recording/playback (Hi-MD 3rd High-End deluxe like MZ-NH1)

Display OLED multi-color

Chip EEPROM or DIP switch for volume programmable restrictions with/without PC (Hi-MD 3rd High-End)

*EDIT*

Hi-MD DL (Double/Dual Layer):

2 layer for DWDD optical?

or

2 layer inferior for DWDD optical and 2 layer superior for magnetic (like Beta Hi-Fi and VHS Hi-Fi recording)?

4-channel surround sound in PCM and LPCM recording mode only

Edited by betamaxDATminidisc

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Hey everyone.  Sony is probably planning and designing the third generation of Hi-MD machines as we speak.  Let’s get some ideas together for what features we would like to see in the next line of portable recorders.  I know I’ve got a few suggestions, so SONY…LISTEN UP, PLEASE!  happy.gif

-First, please bring back the TIMESTAMP feature on high-end portable recording units.  This feature is easy to implement and very handy to have.  Why this was skipped over on 2nd generation machines I will not understand.  Please…bring it back.

-Also, please bring back the LINE OUT feature as well.  I realize that this is not as dire as some of our other ideas and suggestions, but like the timestamp feature, it is easy to implement and very handy to have…even if it must be selected from a menu on the deck like 1st generation machines.

-Let’s see a Hi-MD photo unit that has a MIC IN jack.  How cool would it be to record a concert and take pictures of the show, all with one unit?!  I know I would buy one, and I bet a lot of other people would too.

-A 3 megapixel camera instead of 1.3 megapixels would also be nice to have.

-I’d love to see support for a lossless audio format other than WAV.  Having minidisc support for FLAC or SHN or MonkeyAudio or whatever would be OUTSTANDING, and would help put Sony’s digital audio players back on the competitive track with other companies.  Perhaps this would be technically difficult to put into the decks, but I bet it could be implemented in SonicStage.

-Please consider the suggestion by another person on this forum and think about packaging an inexpensive stereo microphone with units that have a MIC IN jack.  This is a great idea.  I bet Sony could sell a lot more units if a consumer could see that with just one purchase, they could own an ad-hoc recording studio.

Who else has got suggestions for the third generation machines?  Let’s have ‘em loud and clear.  Hopefully Sony will h.ear us.  (Sorry for the lame pun).  cool.gif

In addition to the many other great suggestions, I would like to add the following:

For the hardware: add a voice chip to read the display, control presses, and menu items etc. for those of us who are blind or visually impaired so we can enjoy the complete functionality of HD-MD.

An optical digital out would be useful in the studio.

For the software: please use Microsoft's new open standards for creating universal accessible GUI's for persons with visual impairments. I am tired of having to use RealPlayer in MDLP mode to transfer my MP3s to MD.

... or am I the only blind guy using this stuff?

ET.

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No European volume restrictions

for that you hyave to petition the EU and tell them to evict the french law that put it in there in the first place. it just goes to show that to make europe a single market one basicly have to tell the big 5 to get lost...

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for that you hyave to petition the EU and tell them to evict the french law that put it in there in the first place. it just goes to show that to make europe a single market one basicly have to tell the big 5 to get lost...

I would like to add built-in for volume restrictions:

- Chip EEPROM for volume programmable restrictions with PC and cable USB (Hi-MD 3rd High-End only)

- DIP switch for volume programmable restrictions without PC

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As we know Sony is going through major changes for their consumer electronics department. Their products were non-profitable for past years. Well, they did sell well. But not enough cause of using too expensive components with their products and not willing to make cheaper/cost effective products over high quality and design.

It is very sad to find some few people actually care about build quality and expensive design.

Minidisc units were Sony's kind of flagship electronics what they were proud of. A lot of recources used to make them the best portable equipments in the world, even it was almost non-profitable, as we have seen. Good example is all metal (aluminium&Magnesium) bodies which are most expensive and at least used material in the history of electronics. Sony even used magnesium which is mainly used in aircrafts or spaceshuttles to made minidisc units few grams lighter and more durable. As everybody know Minidisc units are only portable electronics which were mainly made of metal.

But now, things are changed and even Minidisc units have to go through these major

changes. How these changes affects us, minidisc users which were spoiled with magnicifent audio equipments in the past years?

We saw some signs of this in 2nd generation MD units. We saw more plastic, more weight, more bigger units and less features. But we also saw units which were much less expensive but hopefully not less durable.

Here are some possible (right?) answers to our questions. I hope nobody will get sad. sad.gif

These are based on facts what industries have to go to get their business more profitable. You have squeeze every cent from final product to survive.

Confirmed:

-more user friendly software. We will see this in 3rd or 4th quarter of 2005 as sony had promised.

These are not expensive and in that way, possible:

- lit LCDs

--this is pretty much confirmed as DH-10P has it

- TIMESTAMP

--like in previous units

- LINE OUT

--like in previous units

- HD amp

--like in previous units

- The return of speed and pitch controls, as well as a-b looping for musicians and people listening to dictation

--like in previous units

- make uploads hasslefree.. no more once only uploads

- Analog synchro recording

--like sharp/Kenwood units, if no one cares?

- A manual levels setting that is 'remembered' between pressings of 'stop'

--like Sharp/Kenwood units)

- A way to completely disable auto-trackmarking when recording with line-in --like Sharp/Kenwood units

- when pushing record button the unit will go to record/pause state and then push pause and the unit will start to record

--like Sharp/Kenwood units

- Make the ENTER/PLAYBACK (>) - key function as pause

--like Sharp/Kenwood. Actually this is what I always wanted in sony units.

- At least 2 more custom EQ settings, or -all- custom settings

- better eq settings ie. 100 hz will be 60Hz and 10 KHz will be 12KHz. (Earphones often lacks on these frequencies)

- Samaller steps to volume when increse or decrease eq levels. Now it's like 2 or 3 desibels -0.5 or 1 would be better.

- Macintosh support for uploading at the very least

- MP3 playback with correct frequency response

- continue with the battery pack attachment.. it is a boon for recorders.

--This could be too costly?

- Add a menu button or reverse the functions of the navi/menu key.

--this could be add to track mark button as trackM button is almost always pressed 2 sec. if you want to move the position of the mark.

- The disc format function should issue an additional warning in case the disc contains 'invisible' computer data too

--nice and very simple idea to make

- RECORD button on the remote

--I can't understand why they didn't add this to MC40CLK? now it's way more costly

What we will not see:

- "bring back the all metal build quality for the top end recorders."

--We all would like to see aluminium or magnesium, but merely NH-1's body costs more than ipod-mini without harddrive and battery.

- "larger size of disks 2gb or more so that we can record longer in PCM"

--We will not see this in near future if not ever! In

Japan even 1GB Hi-MD's aren't nearly as popular as net-MD.)

- "A 3 megapixel camera instead of 1.3 megapixels would also be nice to have." (Why low quality camera in MD when it is almost every cellphone? And an unit with 3Mp camera costs same as MD-unit plus digital camera.)

- "inexpensive stereo microphone with units that have a MIC IN jack"

--More costs, sorry. They didn't include even a stand or lcd remote with 2nd gen U.S units

- "ATRAC3+ 128kbps.

--There's 132kbps ATRAC3 and there's absolutely no gain in quality using ATRAC3+ in 128. ATRAC3 in 132kbps is minidisc's best codec in compression vs quality (if you use it straight from uncompressed source) as 292kbps SP was earlier.

- "no DRM on our owned recordings."

Only way this is possible to achieve is if you transfer your own mp3 to MD and delete it from PC afterwards you could transfer it back to PC. So you can use your MD-discs like additional storage.

- "What about some PDA funtionality? Address book? Some simple stuff that takes advantage of the minidisc as data storage."

- "Java support? Play some games on that nice LCD"

--Although these could easily to be made with that powerful hardware in MD units, it's not likely the way they want to evaluate Hi-MD.

- market it...let people know what an MD can really do.. in india, i dont think anyone, barring a really small number, know what an MD is.

--marketing MD in U.S is history, and I think in the rest of the world as well (except Japan, UK, Netherlands, Germany)

- A reader slot and copy function for the most commonly used flash memory card types

- Bluetooth and/or WLAN connectivity, as well as an USB input jack

- Bluetooth wirefree remote

- built-in FM radio in the unit (too much weight)

- Built-in DAB digital radio

--all these are absolutely out of question as they add too much costs.

....sad, but true.

MAYBE:

- Support for FLAC, ogg, SHN or MonkeyAudio

- Drag-and-drop of supported files

Hopefully:

- Hi-MD home deck and car deck

--this is what I can't really understand. 1GB@132kbps is about 16.5 hours of music and absolute must for using in car.

You have to remember that anybody in sony don't know our complains even exists. In Japan people don't complain nearly as much as we do. They are mentally so much different. If they can do something new what they didn't think is possible they are happy and do not hope more. They rent a CD and copy it to MD and that's about enough for them (as well as build&sound quality. We are likely much different "species". If we will get all, it's not enough. Then our complains will be like "why I can't bake eggs with this?"

But if someone will tell Sony these little improvements they gladly will make most of them possible. I mean those which are possible (and those which are hopefully and maybe possible.)

Sure they know about those ristrictions but they cannot do anything because of Sony's music department.

And one last thing I want to say: Go, grab last minidisc units which are made like we supposed to know (as minidisc units).

for Hi-MD:

MZ-NH1(recorder)

MZ-NH3D(downloader)

MZ-EH1(player)

MZ-EH930(player)

or

for MDLP player

MZ-E10

Panasonic SJ-MJ97

or almost any Sharp/Kenwood unit

I think these units are invaluable consider to units we will see in the future? Hopefully

not. wink.gif

ps. Why I wrote such a crazy crazy.gif things? You think that 3 dollar bluetooth in MD unit could not be too expensive? Or 2 dollar stand? Or three line remote?

Here's an example:

Nokia cellphones costs 20-25 dollars to manufacture.

A flagship model which is sold at 700$ costs 25$ and entry level 100$ phone costs are 20$. Why they do not sell that flagship model at 105$? Or better, why they did not only manufacture that flagship model so then it only costs that same 20$ dollars to manufacture (buy more same parts and price is cheaper)?

Now the most intresting part:

Why Nokia get only 25% profit in all their cell-phone business? Samsung, for example gets 75% profit.

If they get 25% profit from every phone they sell, who get that 55$-625$?

Marketing people, salesmen/women, designers, engineers and employees. Taxes, customs, shipping etc. etc.

That's it. Nokia is Finnish company and they have to make those phones very cheap and they have to produce them a lot to pay those salaries in Finland and other western countries where their headquarters, design and engineering departments are. And I mean a lot!

If you produce a MD player which costs 50 dollars to manufacture you are in deep S**t. And I don't think anybody could manufacture NH-1 or E10 even at that price if you look inside of them. And what about marketing, engineering, designers, employees, shipping, taxes etc? You cannot marketing a product which costs that much or you do a big loss, no matter how much it sells. And Sony is doing it right now.

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wink.gif What I would like to see in a 3rd generation Hi-MD unit:

1) Longer Battery Life

2) Larger capacity discs? I see no reason why this cannot be done...

3) More FM remotes! None of the 2nd generation MD players have remotes with this feature included! It should be backlit too!

4) The cool new display

5) Line in and Mic in ports

6) Around $300 USD

Forget about a 1.3 mp camera! Is this too much to ask? Since I cannot find any MZ-NHF800 units left... I'll have to make due with my MZ-NH600D.

Drew

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A remote with a record button

manual recording levels left intact after stop button is pressed/unit turned off

legacy md formats brought back

drag n drop capabilities

2gig discs for pcm recording

opt. out/line out

hd amp

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The new rebadged/repainted/Macified RH10 and 910s are already filling the wants listed here, though more as an accessory bundle than anything else. At the very least, I think this is a step in the proper direction. Sony realizes that the iPod and other DAPs have left a void that no other media has filled since the cassettes--easy to record and use media (which can be blamed on many forces, including Sony itself).

At anyrate, thanks to the new SonicStage 3.2, we have a better vision (or conjectural material) of where HiMD could be heading.

1. Content Uploading.

With the removal of the recorded material uploading cap, the HiMD now becomes a viable prosumer/low end recording material gear. The "obvious" next step is for MP3 recording and uploading, but we'll see where this goes.

After all, if they want to capture the 'podcasting' market, you have to make this is dead-pan easy as possible...

Which comes to the next item.

2. Functional Software

With SonicStage 3.2, Sony's added couple of items. One of which was already discussed, the removal of uploading cap. The other crucial item is that OpenMG is getting slightly more open with the optional ability to remove "DRM." Not sure if this is functional as we think it is, but if it at least allows user to upload certain songs from one of thier computer to another with SonicStage, this makes management of music more flexible among multi-PC setup.

I do dearly hope that Sony realizes that, nowadays, some households may have more PCs than TVs (and will in the near future, a lot more households). Hopefully, this will translate into more widespread acceptance of HiMD and Atrac products in general.

The added bitrate is a very nice feature. Hopefully, the new bitrates will result in improved quality overtime like the original ATRAC codec. Perhaps in another couple of years, we'll perhaps marvel at how HiLP sounds much better than 128kbps AAC or what not. I also think that the variable bitrate would signal that a higher capacity media may not be in the work for the near future.

3. Industrial Design

Sony was at one point, known for their industrial design. I'm probably in the minority (not here, but in general) that NH1 looks better than iPod. However, I won't disagree with those who say that iPod is dead easy to use (though a bit scatter-brained, IMO).

Remember the tape walkmans? Press Play, you got your music, press stop, you stopped your tape, etc. Dead easy to use. iPods have that same, easy to use design. By Contrast, the NH1 is cluttered and somewhat counterintuititive (whattaya mean I have to press the nipple?).

I don't suggest that Sony make it dead simple like Tape Walkman, but make it more accessible. A Dedicated Play and Stop button, Fwd and Rwd buttons, menu button, and volume control easily accessible. No holding buttons 2 or 3 seconds for something that could be done in two or three presses. Or something to that effect.

4. Legacy

Keep legacy playback (pop in a MD disc, you can listen to it all you like), but I think the RH910 was a step forward in simplifying the recording experience. You either get SP (PCM), MP (HiSP), or LP (HiLP... yea). While the hard-core recorders here are probably expecting the new bitrates to show up in the next generation recorders, I wonder if this could complicate things furthermore?

Easiest way to solve this? Bring back the Advanced/Simple menu. Keep it Simple for most users, and give the strict three levels of recording. If you need it, access the Advanced Menu, and set accordingly.

5. Video

With rumors of iPod Video, a fair success of the UMD with PSP, it seems like the next logical step for HiMD (Audio->Photo) is video. Dunno if this is a grand idea however, as portable video is still a fairly nascent market (at least with new media. DVD has a well entrenched mobile market, and knocking that off maybe like knocking off Gameboys off the minds and hearts of all gamers.

Still, the PSP/UMD looks like a strong contender for mobile video, so perhaps Sony may be placing the HiMD as a logical recordable solution for portable video.

One thing though, the UMD disc format and HiMD are incompatible, so this leads to the next logical question.

6. Consolidation?

Something that's been discussed here, elsewhere, is the consolidation of HiMD and UMD. Would this be a logical step?

7. The laws of physics.

This, of course, won't have any bearing on what is the most requested feature, faster speed for writing and such. Not to say that they can't eeke out extra mbps here and there, but I think this is one area where not much else can be done. After all, they had several years to make this a reality with NetMD (at least three or four) and nothing much has been to make faster speed a reality.

At anyrate, looking at what's going on now can help us to see what's next. Much like how D-NE series of ATRAC CD Players gave us a hint at what was to come for HiMDs, the current SonicStage and RH series (along with the M series) may give us the hint at what is to come.

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Hey, Sony.

You use low power motors when it comes to battery powered playback or recording to extend the life of the battery. Not bad.

How about a blazingly fast hi-power mode used only when the unit is running on USB power in order to upload even faster?

Some sort of lossless codec. Either Atrac Lossless, or FLAC. Come on. It's not like you'll have to pay for using it anyway.

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Lots of features up there I'd like to have. But USB 2.0 and decent MP3 playback. I need my portable audio to be a fast data drive, and I'm not reencoding or transcoding my MP3 library to a propiretary format.

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as I also just answered to this (your post aswell) in another thread...USB2 would be useless, as it is the writing process itself that is slow (even slower than USB1.1)

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I'd love to see either an 'ultra-low' mic sensitivity setting or a bias voltage (plug-in power) from the line-in. This would make carrying around an attenuator / a battery module/-box for recording loud music through an electret microphone to a large extent unnecessary.

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as I also just answered to this (your post aswell) in another thread...USB2 would be useless, as it is the writing process itself that is slow (even slower than USB1.1)

Yeah I know. But as a data storage medium USB 1.1 is too slow. If want to put a 200MB file on there it just takes too long in USB1.1 . So it means carrying another device. MD is only for music. Of course if you only need a few mb then may its ok. But I'd just email that kinda data to myelf.

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What Would You Like To See In 3rd Gen Hi-md?, suggestions, requests, etc.

How about user programmable buttons on the unit as well as on the

remote. At least one or two of them so every user can fast access the

menus/functions he needs the most. But please then make it accessible

to every function. Even like 'type an "a"'.

Someone might need it if he wants to title the tracks like this:

1. a

2. aa

3. aaa

who knows? wink.gif

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At this point, what I'd like to see on a 3rd gen of Minidisc, is the ACTUAL 3rd Gen of minidisc. Yeah, I'm a sad doggy tonight. AU MD lovers, our hearts go out to you.

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Sony just make a jb940 , ja 20Es based HImd deck ,car HImd unit , 3MEGA pixel/video (500kbps is OK for mpeg2 SQ quality) version of mz dh10P, and you will boost sail of HImd blanks!!!

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I am not looking for a lot here- lol

~ My RH10 came with a shoddy remote that is spoiling the product :(

~ I like the equalisers, but I really miss my super & mega base functions that I had on my old MD.

~ This mite sound trivial, but more than 4 notches of baterry life: the RH10 has a single block that could go down at small intervils: currently its just the same as the old one: full; 3/4; half then flashing!! my £40 NAPA solid state WMA player can do better than this

~ My beloved side car: just how securly attached is it with that tiny screw thing. a clip of some kind would be better.

One of the best features of MD player over other things in MY oppinion was that the battery did not need charged every 4-6 hours. but the new Hi-MD does actually use a lot of battery. I used to switch my player on as i went to sleep and it was about half full in the morning (on a single rechargeable AA.)

The new gm-sticky things just dont seam to do that, yet they are classed as higher amp rating

Also please make those 1GB disks more affordable: dont you dare tell me they are 6 times more expensive to produce!! >:o

Edited by Alexx

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