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Alexx

Why is everyone so nasty...

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If a newbie posts something that we discussed YEARS ago he gets moaned at.

Sarcy comments like "use the search function and...."

And if someone has the audacity to make two topics about things that are linked in some way then again the yellin.

Can't we take a metaphorical chill pill?

:) Lets all smile and hug

(ps- if my post is moved or deleated than i will be so sad i might cry. So don't do it)

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If you have a problem, please use the "Report" button on the offensive post. It is impossible for the staff to screen all posts, but I do know we have a very friendly and relaxed community here and I'm not really sure of what posts you speak of.

If you have a specific problem with a certain member, you may always send a message to myself or any of the moderators for further discussion.

As this post has nothing to do with Hi-MD, I must move it to the off topic forum.

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alexx is right kuris there's been a fairly combative undercurrent this last week.

you know who you are & so do i

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alexx is right kuris there's been a fairly combative undercurrent this last week.

you know who you are & so do i

wasn me :huh: I dont think the ppl here are too bad, i could name a few ppl at other places who can be pretty snyde (sp?), tactless and patronising, when it comes to 'tutt tutting' members.

Edited by GregTheRotter

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Sorry Alexx, hope it wasn't me either. You're right, we should all make an effort to be nice and helpful to to each other... :)

Edited by KJ_Palmer

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If a newbie posts something that we discussed YEARS ago he gets moaned at.

Sarcy comments like "use the search function and...."

And if someone has the audacity to make two topics about things that are linked in some way then again the yellin.

Can't we take a metaphorical chill pill?

:) Lets all smile and hug

(ps- if my post is moved or deleated than i will be so sad i might cry. So don't do it)

Ohh, don't cry Alexx! This happens on all boards, I'm afraid. But most people are cool (aside from the ego-uber-posters and ego-moderators...everywhere!) But let me tell you...the best offense for that kind of ego is just to simply say at the beginning of any post: Please don't tell me to search the forums, I have a concern about x,y, and z...please help. And if any board is so rude to deny you a response after that...then, they need to sit together and rot in their horrible anti-social dregs. It's really funny how someone with like 8 thousand posts can tell someone to look something up when they themselves have commented on numerous threads about some similar topics! How ironic!!!! ;)

Hope this helps...I'm certainly not bonafide here...just trying to get along as well and have a rapport....btw, Can you please tell me what thread or topic you need addressed...I will certainly try and help!!!

Best always,

blu

Edited by blu

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first let me say that I think I'm pretty polite mostly so I do not feel addressed and I agree with the general tone in this thread... well partly

indeed, if someone posts a polite and specific question, we should all try to answer it as correct and polite as possible... I often try to do this to the best of my knowledge

but...

- sometimes ppl come here, clearly refuse to look around, post 'the most general question ever' and expect you to clear things up for them... the pinned threads/faq's/search feature have got a reason, and so have the different sections (live rec questions?... see the live rec section perhaps... don't just enter these forums in a thread in HiMD and instead of looking a bit further, just post that question in the wrong section, preferably in an existing post on a completely different topic, even though it possibly is answered a number of times already)

If I can tell that someone clearly hasn't looked at all but expects us to just hand him the knowledge on a platter (again), even if they say "please do not point out to me that I'm lazy by telling me to search first, I know I am, that's why I ask this question in stead of searching" (sorry if this sounds harsh blu (and others) ... of course everyone has a right to ask instead of searching, but automaticlly calling ppl anti-social if they refuse to help is also a bit harsh IMHO), I sometimes find it hard to stay polite myself... but I have learned just not to react (not negative, but also not by answering) to such a question anymore...

...and...

- please do not think/believe/impose that rudeness is limited to power-mods or power-posters only!! kurisu still asks politely every time to post system specs when another one pops up with the great post: "SS is crap and won't work. Tell me how to fix it!" sometimes followed by a "please", but just as often not ... and A440 and greenmachine (both very valuable power-posters IMHO) have more patience with newby-recordists (including me somewhere in the near past) than most of us would... while it are often the ppl that have just outgrown the "beginner" stage here on MDCF that proliferate themselves as habitués by reacting overly strong to redundant/old/wrongly posted questions (I feel I can say this, as I know I have been there myself... it is part of the process of learning to operate in a forum...but it is a stage one really needs to outgrow as it is annoying for all others)

so as a plea for politeness, I can agree with this thread... but as a claim that these are unpolite forums or as a way of telling ppl off... I cannot! I think MDCF is very helpful and polite most of the time and rude behaviour (whether from simple- or power-posters and even from mods) is always reacted on by others (not in the least by kurisu) but this is mostly handled by a discrete PM informing into the nature of the bad temper of the poster in question and not by public reprimands... which I think is part of the great atmosphere overhere

so yes, unfortunately rude reactions will happen... but either ask the poster through PM what's botherig him (politely as well :P ) or report the post if it really is over the top... but this way of accusing noone in particular and everyone at the same time is quite useless IMHO

these are fun and helpful forums and let's not ruin that mood ...not with topics like this either

PS: sorry for this strong reaction, but I would hate ppl to stop posting or to watch their language too much just because of this single thread

PPS: mods feel free to remove this post (or this whole thread perhaps, as this is covered in the MDCF guidelines, but perhaps noone bothers to read those either :P ) if deemed necessary and everyone... I welcome PM's informing about my foul mood :lol:

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Why are newbie's so lazy ;)

Sometimes it's almost demanded that an answer is given within 5 minutes flat on a silver platter and suger on top.

Seek and thou shalt find.

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ive had a few members ask questions on the hd5 via pm. I was actually flattered and was just grateful that they had chosen to ask the question this way and not just make a new thread for that one single question. thanks again. I;d rather take the time to explain the question personally than have a new thread posted, that only needed a few responses to end the thread.

Edited by GregTheRotter

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It is not so much that people are being abused- but there is just a general hostility to newbies: who actually might not know any better.

So what if someone posts a really general question. We can all put our ten-pence worth in; and hopefully the person will learn more.

And if they post something thats already been mentioned try not whip-them to death!!

oh and blu don't tell me not to cry: it DOESN'T happen on other forums

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correction, it does. have a look at another related forum. they can be pretty snyde, patronising,tactless and condescending. thats part of why im here :lol:

As ive said, if ur a noobie and its a thread ur posting that can be answered with one quick answer i'd prefer a pm than a dead thread, but thats just me. Im not gonna flame anyone if they're a noobie.

Edited by GregTheRotter

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So what if someone posts a really general question. We can all put our ten-pence worth in; and hopefully the person will learn more.

And if they post something thats already been mentioned try not whip-them to death!!

well, pointing out that the question is overly general and/or that it has been answered before (when done in a polite way) IMHO is a very useful and honest way of answering... I really do not see a point in trying your best to answer such a question ... again... and by guessing what the person actually meant... I certainly would not classify that as "whipping them to death" :blink: let's keep things in perspective please...

it DOESN'T happen on other forums

sorry, but whether you believe it or not, these are the most polite forums I personally have participated on... just try any audiophile board and ask a simple "what headphones are good for me" and see what happens! If they do not diss you immediately, they will start flaming each other :lol:

fun game: just ask a slightly negative sounding question on any "considered to be very good" 'phone on one of those boards and watch the handbags swoosh through cyberspace :P if that didn't work, just post that you do not believe in the myth of "burning in 'phones" (BTW I do believe in it...so hold yer bags, gents)

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well, pointing out that the question is overly general and/or that it has been answered before (when done in a polite way) IMHO is a very useful and honest way of answering... I really do not see a point in trying your best to answer such a question ... again... and by guessing what the person actually meant... I certainly would not classify that as "whipping them to death" :blink: let's keep things in perspective please...

sorry, but whether you believe it or not, these are the most polite forums I personally have participated on... just try any audiophile board and ask a simple "what headphones are good for me" and see what happens! If they do not diss you immediately, they will start flaming each other :lol:

fun game: just ask a slightly negative sounding question on any "considered to be very good" 'phone on one of those boards and watch the handbags swoosh through cyberspace :P if that didn't work, just post that you do not believe in the myth of "burning in 'phones" (BTW I do believe in it...so hold yer bags , gents)

:lol: haha. :huh:

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The "Report" button is your friend, however it is NOT to be used to advertise your thread.

If that happens again I might just close the thread.

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To my personal experience, this is the most helpful forum! So thank you to whoever helped here!

But... I sort of felt this forum is not as active as it could be (blame Sony for the most part). While I appreciate mods/admins' effort to keep the topics as clean/sorted as possible (don't get me wrong, I think that is a good thing), it could have side effects that restrains people's enthusiasm to participate. For a lot of newbies, especially those who may not have much online expereience, they would feel bad/stupid when getting the "go do a search" answer for their questions ("Search" link isn't obvious in the forum UI anyway)... How about:

1. Instead of say "do a search", give out specific search terms and a link to the search page, that won't take much time, but can be even more friendly and welcoming.

2. Instead of freeze/delete the topic (offensive ones excepted), just reply with a link pointing to the existing/duplicate topic(s). If people continue to reply to the new topic, maybe they really mean a different question, so worth a new topic. I know you experts may think the other way, but we are talking about newbies, right?

3. Instead of keeping every topic in one forum, maybe create a "best topics archive" subfolder in each forum, so mods/admins can move/copy the good topics to the archive periodically, and can even purge the unimportant topic once a month.

I don't think the problem is about rudeness here, it is how to make the forum more friendly, helpful and welcoming. That is everyone is trying to figure out, isn't it.

my 2c.

BTW, it would be a different story if we are trying to make a forum for "the inner circle of people who stick around long enough".

Edited by duancg

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More importantly, many of those who only drop by fora occasionally don't realise the amount of work the mods and admins put in.

The mods and admins don't keep lists of current or old topics. When someone asks a question that's already been answered, the relevant threads to refer the users to are not at their immediate disposal. Like anyone else, including the new users, they have to go searching for the thread.

As rude as it may seem to some, it often comes down to whose time gets spent looking for the requested [and pre-existing] information. This is probably the #1 reason why the "please use the search function" response gets used as often as it does.

It's also why the most important threads get stickied or moved/copied to the FAQ/Howto subfora that already exist. While yes, there are a number of relevant topics that resurface regularly and aren't stickied, the other half of the above equation is the fact that to collect all that info into links, someone has to do the work.

The staff here aren't full-time, paid employees of a company. They're volunteers [even taking into consideration some of the honoraria given to staff in return for work they've done above and beyond the everyday call of volunteers] who put the time in here for many reasons, including love of the format and love of their craft, along with the desire to share information with other users.

I have been a part of a few fora, bulliten boards, and newsgroups over the years, and I know personally how much time can be spent on just keeping things running.

I also know from experience that the staff and "frequent flyers" here are honestly the easiest to get along with of any forum I have ever taken part in.

As for myself - I may have a bit of a reputation as cantankerous and short-tempered, but please don't let that reflect on the staff here. We each have our own opinions and personalities.

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Why are newbie's so lazy ;)

Sometimes it's almost demanded that an answer is given within 5 minutes flat on a silver platter and suger on top.

Seek and thou shalt find.

I am not a newbie, but often I find the search engine pretty useless, so I just ask. Also, if a person is, by definition, a newbie...they many simple not know all of the ins and outs of a forum. I have seen many first timers get their butts chewed on because some folks are all into the "look it up you lazy newb" mentality.

All in all, so what if someone asks a question. Isn't that what these forums are all about....discussion amongst folks who share a common interest?

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oh and blu don't tell me not to cry: it DOESN'T happen on other forums

Sorry Alexx, I meant that in a light and joking way with a smile...but now reading my post again I can see if it wasn't read as such (should have inserted a smile or two!)

Anyways, I do agree with what you are saying here. And I've given it some thought...I think it boils down to the fact that there are people who are absolutely content with reading board faqs and old threads, while others want to "feel" a part of a conversation...they want to have an active discussion about thier concerns and needs and solutions to thier problems. And when that doesn't occur, it kind of stifles their enthusiasm or exacerbates their frustration...when all they wanted to hear is someone recognize thier post. It's a balancing act though, from my experience. I've had topics go down in history with no responses, topics locked because they've been discussed before, and have been directed to links as well (on other boards)...whatever! :wacko::P And then, other times, people are so helpful...whatever! :o;) Anyways, just know you are not alone with what you are feeling...

Best always,

blu

Edited by blu

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I do agree with blu on the different ways one can use a forum...

for info retrieval:

please ppl... just read the stickies/faq's first, then search, then post a question if you still didn't find an answer (as stated in the MDCF guidelines...or are these rude as well? :P ) Ppl please realize, noone and I repeat noone is trying to stop ppl posting questions!! That really is not the point...I personally welcome them, as other ppl's questions have often made me think different about my own situation, that's why I read every new post...but the instant-"search first/read the stickies"-reaction mostly pops up when the poster clearly hasn't tried any of the aforementioned methods and the question can easily be answered by any of the above options prior to posting yet another question...

for friendship/discussion/time wasting:

do not get me wrong... I think these are all very useful applications of a forum :lol: (I know I spend way more time overhere than needed for info retrieval) but there is a place/time/method for this: i.e. this is more likely to be tolerated in the "off-topic"-section and it really doesn't have to revolve around MD (that's why they call it off-topic I guess :P ). Posting an overly general, answered kazillion times before question in one of the subforums... just to get ppl to talk to you isn't the best way to go IMHO -_-

Again, this does not mean that there should be no discussion in other subfora according to me...not at all. But let's try to keep it focussed a bit... what use is it if the same discussion is held over and over again if you can just use search and find the old one and continue it...

On another note... I am getting quite tired of the "but I'm a poor newby and I don't really know how to behave on a forum, so just allow me to do whatever I feel like or I'll call you rude if you try to correct my behaviour"-stuff. Yes a forum should be open and welcoming...but no this does not mean: " let everyone post wherever they want 'cause within a short time noone will want to use these forums anymore, cause even the power-posters won't be able to find any info anymore! (just start yourselves an anarchistic "no-rules" forum somewhere if you can't handle elementary rules...I'll probably drop by sometimes, if it lives long enough :P )

So here my plea towards all ppl calling themselves forum-newbies and that feel offended by the tone on these forums:

So you would like to use these forums for info or friendship: you are utmost welcome! but please have the elementary politeness to:

- read/follow the forum guidelines

- read/follow the "rules" (when posting in the software section)

- to observe the 'ways of the forum' for a couple of secs before throwing yourself in

- to realize that ppl here are trying to help you (eventhough sometimes by correcting your behaviour, which may seem condescending)

- to realize that this is exactly the same as anywhere else (on or off the net) you would enter as a newcomer... imagine yourself going to a library desk and shouting: "I want that one book about cooking" and going "hey man, don't diss me, that's rude" when the shocked librarian asks you to gather a bit more details about your request and then search for it... and if you're thinking now: "yeah a library, but do they really want to be compared to that" well, it's the same at any slightly pro-oriented store or ...well anywhere actually, even in a club/bar with habitués

so no hard feelings... (well not from me at least) but we should all try our best to be polite and not rude: the mods, the power posters, the regular and infrequent posters and the newbies (but unfortunately that last group didn't read this post, so just as unfortunately the other groups will have to keep replying: "please search/read the stickies and post again with more detail if this doesn't solve your problem"

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I think you either have to allow duplicate threads or don't. But if you don't you have a much bigger workload administering the site. Thats a choice that the admins make.

I think you shouldn't post read the FAQ or do a search, you should just not post at all in those thread. That stops experienced posters from getting jaded (tired) from newbie posts.

If you really don't want newbie posts, create a newbie subforum specifically for them. Perhaps constrain them to that section till they hit 100 posts or something.

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sparks... don't get me wrong, I don't really get tired of newby posts (quite a number I have and will still answer to the best of my knowledge...I really enjoy helping ppl out), as long as I am allowed to answer "search/read the faq's" when needed (for some questions that simply is the best answer)... I think it would overly complicate things if we limited ppl to a newby forum, that would be restrictive/unwelcoming IMHO

this thread (and my posts) weren't anti-newby at all... it all started with the remark that the general tone was hostile towards newbies... and that is just something I do not agree with...

but mods... as I said before, the guidelines actually cover all that is being said here so IMHO, no need for this thread to trail on

PS: maybe we should simply answer all redundant/overly general questions with a link to the forum guidelines

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My darkest view of this conversation is:

This is an ironic and combustible conversation now...because...most (if not all) of the minidisc topics HAVE been discussed...really, there's not much more to talk about that already hasn't been covered if we really think about it: it's out there somewhere on this board or the internet already. And we're like hungry and bored dogs waiting for a new type of dogbone and the truth is...we've kind of been thrown all the bones that exist (thanks Sony)... and some of us have chewed them up and spit them out, while others have just happened upon the scene...

It's the end of minidisc I'm afraid and this is the unfortunate kind of end of such a scene...

Best,

blu

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- to realize that this is exactly the same as anywhere else (on or off the net) you would enter as a newcomer... imagine yourself going to a library desk and shouting: "I want that one book about cooking" and going "hey man, don't diss me, that's rude" when the shocked librarian asks you to gather a bit more details about your request and then search for it... and if you're thinking now: "yeah a library, but do they really want to be compared to that" well, it's the same at any slightly pro-oriented store or ...well anywhere actually, even in a club/bar with habitués

lol..hilarious! :D

--------

It would be nice to edit the Guidelines and lay out a ideal forum setting in which everyone would abide by. But no matter how big the link, the banner, the pop-up, people wouldn't follow it. I think the attitude here is lax, but at the same time efficient. A good example of this is ATRACLife. We direct people to ATRACLife when they post topics about non-MD Sonicstage woes, we close the thread and ask them nicely to post there. Some people have gotten enraged about this, even to the point of banning (don't worry, that bloke ran his mouth too much with profanities). But what has spawned from this course of action is a more efficient search database. MDCF is one of the best archived and maintained forums I've seen for information. As we work on the FAQ's, noobs develop our vernacular and skills steadfast and it's really reflected in the way people introduce themselves -- isn't that what it's all about anyways?

We run a somewhat tight ship, but no one is not credited for their contribution and we really try to champion the efforts of our users. In the various social enviroments I'm in each day in real life, this is a nice place to be. If you really feel that your stepping on too many toes then I feel you've really misconcieved the forum.

I would also wonder why anyone observe this type of attitude and not contact myself or a Moderator.

Edited by kurisu

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