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MiniDisc as a Data Storage Device?


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#41 cambridgeman

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 12:16 AM

Do any of the contributors here know if any of this discussion is relevent to the Mac side of things?
I have a portable, with an external Hd. I've used one back to the days of SyQuest, (better quality than the aforementioned Zip drives, but that's another story). Lately the HD in my portable bit the dust. I am now using my external as the start-up disc. At the momemt, my data is not being backed-up. I have been seriously considering the perchase of an MZ-NH1. My unit has USB 1.1. Do I need a special driver for the HiMD, or will it simply appear on the desktop if attached?


#42 tekdroid

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 02:24 AM

QUOTE(DerTapir @ Dec 23 2005, 01:22 AM) View Post


The only problem i see, is the power supply for a HiMD recorder. If it is possible to use both...power
connection AND USB (or better USB will power the device) that would be great. but i dont know if this works
(Does anybody know ??)


USB supplies power to the Hi-MD device (just like a flash USB stick). It doesn't use the battery when connected to USB.

Hope Santa brings you your unit wink.gif If he doesn't, punch him for me biggrin.gif



#43 Sparky191

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE(minidix @ Dec 22 2005, 01:31 PM) View Post

You mean you tried and didn't work? What was the problem?



No I haven't tried it with a MD. But it was so unreliable on PC's its not something I would see any value in. I have a vague memory of problems between version being incompatitble from each other. It sued to cause a lot of problems though.There was a competiting product at the time called Stacker which was more robust. Of course you could just compress your data with stuffit or winzip and have the same effect. Regardless it would take an age to copy 2GB to a HiMD. Also if you HiMD unit failed you might have some difficulty sourcing a replacment in a year or so. Where I live most Sony stores no longer stock them.

#44 cambridgeman

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 03:33 AM

Do any of the contributors here know if any of this discussion is relevent to the Mac side of things?

Will an icon of an HiMD drive or unit, specifiacally an NH1, simply appear on the desktop if attached to the USB port?

#45 e1ghtyf1ve

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 09:50 AM

QUOTE(cambridgeman @ Dec 23 2005, 12:38 AM) View Post

Do any of the contributors here know if any of this discussion is relevent to the Mac side of things?

Will an icon of an HiMD drive or unit, specifiacally an NH1, simply appear on the desktop if attached to the USB port?


Hi,

Sorry to hear that your HD bit the dust. The NH1 should be recognized as a mass storage device. If other USB storage devices work for you, so should the NH1, which I believe also uses USB 1.1. HiMD recorders appear as a mounted drive on my OS X desktop. I hope this helps you - just don't expect a speed daemon. But this sounds like an emergency.

Cheers

#46 minidix

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 12:31 PM

QUOTE(Sparky191 @ Dec 23 2005, 09:40 AM) View Post

No I haven't tried it with a MD. But it was so unreliable on PC's its not something I would see any value in. I have a vague memory of problems between version being incompatitble from each other. It sued to cause a lot of problems though.There was a competiting product at the time called Stacker which was more robust. Of course you could just compress your data with stuffit or winzip and have the same effect. Regardless it would take an age to copy 2GB to a HiMD. Also if you HiMD unit failed you might have some difficulty sourcing a replacment in a year or so. Where I live most Sony stores no longer stock them.

I'm not considering to use Hi-MD for data archiving (maybe for music archiving), only for transporting several megs of files between home and work, where there are more computers running Win 98 and Millenium than Win XP. So all of them have Drivespace3 (which now is quite reliable) as a part of the OS and automatically recognize and write compressed disks. At home I run XP, (so no more Drivespace3) but I'll install the last version of Stacker, which is fully compatible with Drivespace3. (I think I've read somewhere that anyway Microsoft used the more reliable technology of Stacker for Drivespace3). Also is not so important for me to have 100% accuracy of the data, if the files are not usable I can get them again the next day. But the speed is kinda important, also to make use of compresssion transparently, without the bother of using compression softwares twice a day smile.gif
But people, aren't you curious if it works? It could translate in MDs twice larger (it's interesting for the old 80 min. minidiscs to hold the content of a CD) and twice faster)... 1Mb/s sounds anyway better than 500kb/s. I'm tracking the format from 1998 smile.gif but I don't own a minidisc unit yet, so I can't try it myself. Being able use it decently as a data drive too could trigger me to finally make the step of buying one online. The shipping will be expensive, but here in Romania can't find even Net-MD units

#47 The Low Volta

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 12:36 PM

the minidisc can't 'read' data as playable music...so double capacity80 min discs wouldn't really be useful for music at all unless you only want to transport

for data I use USB-sticks when speed is essential or CDR/DVDR when it is not

HiMD is IMHO only really useful as a recording decvice and if you have got one on you and you urgently need to grap some data, the data-abilities could come in handy... otherwise I wouldn't really use my HiMD as a data drive

#48 e1ghtyf1ve

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE(minidix @ Dec 23 2005, 09:36 AM) View Post

I'm not considering to use Hi-MD for data archiving (maybe for music archiving), only for transporting several megs of files between home and work, where there are more computers running Win 98 and Millenium than Win XP. So all of them have Drivespace3 (which now is quite reliable) as a part of the OS and automatically recognize and write compressed disks. At home I run XP, (so no more Drivespace3) but I'll install the last version of Stacker, which is fully compatible with Drivespace3. (I think I've read somewhere that anyway Microsoft used the more reliable technology of Stacker for Drivespace3). Also is not so important for me to have 100% accuracy of the data, if the files are not usable I can get them again the next day. But the speed is kinda important, also to make use of compresssion transparently, without the bother of using compression softwares twice a day smile.gif
But people, aren't you curious if it works? It could translate in MDs twice larger (it's interesting for the old 80 min. minidiscs to hold the content of a CD) and twice faster)... 1Mb/s sounds anyway better than 500kb/s. I'm tracking the format from 1998 smile.gif but I don't own a minidisc unit yet, so I can't try it myself. Being able use it decently as a data drive too could trigger me to finally make the step of buying one online. The shipping will be expensive, but here in Romania can't find even Net-MD units


As I said earlier, go ahead and try it. You won't break anything. Just be patient. tongue.gif

I have all the tools and equipment to maintain our HiMD portables. I completely tore down and reassembled an RH910 (almost identical to my RH10) last June. It is surprisingly well made, a little engineering marvel. The motors are brushless, and I also made sure all the gears are well lubricated. Barring butterfingers, and natural or electrical disasters, I expect it will last for many years. By then, hopefully new and better devices can be had.

Cheers and health to all

(typo edit)

Edited by e1ghtyf1ve, 23 December 2005 - 12:55 PM.


#49 cambridgeman

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE(The Low Volta @ Dec 23 2005, 11:41 AM) View Post
the minidisc can't 'read' data as playable music...so double capacity80 min discs wouldn't really be useful for music at all unless you only want to transport

for data I use USB-sticks when speed is essential or CDR/DVDR when it is not

HiMD is IMHO only really useful as a recording decvice and if you have got one on you and you urgently need to grap some data, the data-abilities could come in handy... otherwise I wouldn't really use my HiMD as a data drive


I do not have either a flash stick or a CD burner. This would be my my only form at present, besides my external HD, of removable/recordable/archivable media. And, along with a HiMD unit itself accompanying the disk, transportable too. As far as I undersatand it, mounting a HiMD unit on the desktop, of either a mac or a PC, isn't software or driver dependant at all. As long as a USB 1.1 connection is possible, one is good to go.

As far as backing up data, most of my crucial files aren't that large. The last removable storage I bought was a Syquest 135, with 135 MB storage discs. MD might be slower, but overall, I see it as having a few advantages, in comparison.

I do wonder, however, if I would have the capacity to use the same MD data disc, for the storage and transferance of both PC and Mac files. I am not exactly sure if the HD would have to be formatted. If it was formatted, could it be partitioned. If it was partitioned, could one partition be formatted for PC, and another partitioned for Mac?

If I was to take files off of a PC, could I then connect my MD to my Mac and retrieve those files?

Edited by cambridgeman, 23 December 2005 - 03:22 PM.


#50 e1ghtyf1ve

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 03:24 PM

"If I was to take files off of a PC, could I then connect my MD to my Mac and retrieve those files?"

Yes, of course!

Edited by e1ghtyf1ve, 23 December 2005 - 03:25 PM.


#51 Sparky191

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 04:15 PM

It appears as a disk drive on a Mac and a PC so you can copy data from both to it.

Personaly when I'm dashing out the door I couldn't wait the 10mins or so it takes data to copy to a MD. If I miss my traffic window by 5-10mins it can add 30-40mins to my commute. Used to drive me crazy when I used CD's for transport on the older 2x and 4x drives waiting for them. Now I just plug in my MP3 player copy my files in seconds, unplug and I'm gone. I have a encrypted section of the drive for data.

#52 DerTapir

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 04:28 PM

QUOTE
(minidix)

But people, aren't you curious if it works? It could translate in MDs twice larger (it's interesting for the old 80 min. minidiscs to hold the content of a CD) and twice faster)...


Have you ever tried compressing audio data ?
normaly the compress rate is 75-80% of the original -> less than 25 % smaler.

So you will never get double space (especialy wenn you have compressed data formats like mp3, jpg, etc. )




ps: hope my quote will work unsure.gif

#53 Sparky191

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 04:34 PM

And it takes time to compress and uncompress the data.

#54 e1ghtyf1ve

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE(Sparky191 @ Dec 23 2005, 01:39 PM) View Post

And it takes time to compress and uncompress the data.


The CPU is so much faster than the HiMD recorder that the net speed gain is positive.

#55 Sparky191

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 07:32 PM

I suppose if its gonna take you 5-10mins uncompressing a few mb's isn't significant. Uncompressing 500mb has to increase the time. Anyway enough of this daft thread smile.gif

#56 minidix

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 02:19 PM

QUOTE(Sparky191 @ Dec 24 2005, 02:37 AM) View Post

I suppose if its gonna take you 5-10mins uncompressing a few mb's isn't significant. Uncompressing 500mb has to increase the time. Anyway enough of this daft thread smile.gif

I wasn't talking about music (maybe mentioning CD instead of CD-ROM was the cause) I was talking about document files and software (which, being text, are compressed with an average ratio of 1:2). The compression as part of the OS is done in real time by the CPU, during the transfer, and the amount of data bits tranfered per second is exactly double. The 500Kb write speed of the MD is so slow (hundred of times slower then harddisks, and drivespace was designed for speeding the harddisks)that any method for speeding without giant efforts is welcomed. Maybe even the superspeedy USB 2.0 keychains could benefit from realtime compression (it's not sure, but for the turtle speed of the minidisc, it's 100% certain. The question was if the Hi-MD supported it well or not)
But it's another natural fenomenon happening here again and again (and that's why I was tracking the forums so many years without participating until now): when someone asks "hey guys, is it possible to do this or that with the minidisc?" (in my case, "Someone running win 98 or owning a Hi-MD, please try, if it works you'll be the first to take profit"), the answer is less often yes or no, but for sure "why doing that? I never do this, I allways ........!)" Maybe the format isn't doomed, and any idea meant to bypass its shotcomings deserves some consideration.
I don't think the newcomers or minidisc fans want to hear "it's stupid you even thought about that" (especially when it isn't). They will keep out if they are not so confident

#57 Sparky191

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 04:06 PM

QUOTE(minidix @ Dec 23 2005, 12:36 PM) View Post

I'm not considering to use Hi-MD for data archiving (maybe for music archiving), only for transporting several megs of files between home and work, where there are more computers running Win 98 and Millenium than Win XP. ....But the speed is kinda important, also to make use of compresssion transparently, without the bother of using compression softwares...


Your req...

1) Music Archiving
2) Data Transport
3) Fast tansfers

For most people, there simply cheaper and faster and more convenient ways of doing what you're asking. Sweeping generalisation I know but I'm assuming that most users do not all transfer only small amounts of data. Since any transfer of more than a couple of megs takes an age, the difference compression makes will be insufficient for most people. Thats my opinion, having tried it.

If your afraid of differing views on the web, best not to post. biggrin.gif

Edited by Sparky191, 26 December 2005 - 04:44 PM.


#58 unignal

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 03:00 AM

Did someone mentioned that plugging the Hi-MD device onto a MAC will cause a removable device to show up on a mac machine? I tried with my NH-MZ900 but it didn't work. My unit shows that it is connected to a player but my MAC shows nothing.

#59 Sparky191

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 04:58 AM

Just a thought...

I'd assume it only works if you have a disk in it, that formated in one of the HiMD formats. Probably a standard MD with SP wouldn't work.

Or perhaps your mac USB ports aren't supplying enough power.

#60 unignal

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 11:21 AM

QUOTE(Sparky191 @ Dec 30 2005, 06:03 PM) View Post

Just a thought...

I'd assume it only works if you have a disk in it, that formated in one of the HiMD formats. Probably a standard MD with SP wouldn't work.

Or perhaps your mac USB ports aren't supplying enough power.


Was using a Hi-MD 1GB disc. I don't know about the power problem, but my friend was able to connect his Creative Zen with no problem.





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