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Hello and a couple of questions

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BearBoy

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Hello. New to the forum but pleased to see there is still an active MiniDisc community out there.

I first got in to MiniDisc back in 1997 when I bought an MDS-JE500 (which is still going) and an MZ-E30 (which was sadly stolen) and was a big fan of the format until finally succumbing to the lure of the iPod's greater storage around 2005/2006. I was a somewhat reluctant convert to the iPod, as I preferred the sound quality of my MiniDiscs, but convenience won out. Anyway, following a recent house move I have finally got my players and discs back out of storage and have been having a nostalgic play around with them. Was pleasantly surprised to discover, amongst the recordings from my CD collection, a number of radio shows and recordings of various bands I had been in. 

After my MZ-E30 was stolen, I replaced it with an MZ-E501, which works fine but the original battery only seems to hold enough charge for about 10 minutes of playback. I am pretty sure I have the external battery case somewhere but impatience got the better of me and I ordered a Vapex replacement for my Sony NH-14WM. It arrived yesterday and, so far at least, seems to work pretty well.

My MDS-JE500 deck also appears to be fine although I have not tried to make any recordings on it as yet.

Anyway, to my questions (sorry for the rambling).

1) I want to transfer my original recordings (not those made from CDs) to my PC so that I have a back up and can burn them to CDs etc if I want to. My MiniDisc equipment predates NetMD so I was intending to copy them digitally via my Focusrite audio interface. My interface only has an coaxial input so I would need to use a convertor to convert the MDS-JE500's optical output to coax. Am I likely to run in to any issues with doing this? I was specifically thinking about SCMS related issues as I seem to recall having problems copying MiniDiscs to a Boss digital multitracker about 15 years ago. Also, what does my MDS-JE500 output through the optical out? Is it PCM 16/44,1?

2) Although impressed at the reliability of my MiniDisc equipment, I did start thinking about future proofing and whether it might be an idea to purchase a "spare" deck in case my MDS-JE500 ever broke down (I have an MZ-E300 in a box somewhere in case my MZ-E501 packed up but I am more worried about keeping an operational deck tbh). I have been looking at a few of the Sony QS MiniDisc decks on eBay (MDS-JB9XXs). The MDS-JB980 seems to attract the higher prices (presumably due to its NetMD capabilities?) but, if I am really only looking for a device to playback SP discs recorded on my MDS-JE500, does the MDS-JB980 really offer anything over the 940/930/920? I notice on minidisc.org that they have differing versions of ATRAC but am not 100% sure how this relates back to playback of my existing discs. Also, given that my laptop is running Windows 8.1, would I be likely to have any joy with getting any of the NetMD functionality of the JB980 to work?

Sorry for the epic first post; I will try to be a little more succinct in future!

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Welcome.

I will answer the questions that I can.

I believe the MDS-JE500's DAC is CXD8607N, which appears to be 20-bit. If so, the output would be PCM 20/44.1? I don't see any way to switch that on the JE500. I suspect it is a multi-bit (Sony calls this "hybrid pulse") DAC, as opposed to 1-bit (which Sony calls current pulse). Whether SCMS comes into play depends on the Focusrite. If the Focusrite is a pro unit and modern, my guess would be that SCMS is not part of its picture.

NetMD aside, the MDS-JB980 offers MDLP ATRAC Type S, considered by many to be improved over Type R for LP, but with no effect on SP mode. The 940 and 930 are both Type R machines: the 940 has MDLP and the 930 does not. The 930 is said by many to offer superior SQ to the 940 (I agree). 930 has 1-bit DAC; 940 has multi-bit DAC. The 940 has switchable D.out length (16, 24), while the 930 doesn't. The 920 has switchable D.in and D.out, both 16/20/24, according to http://minidisc.org/part_Sony_MDS-JB920.html

At least one person told me that the 920 and 930 sounded the same; another said they did not. Although  I do not have a 920 (ATRAC 4.5), I do have a Kenwood MD-2070 that has 4.5—it sounds great. I am thinking that you would be OK with any of the 9[2|3|4|8]0 units. You really should take a look at http://minidisc.org/equipment_browser.html for more details.

I hope others may well chime in with their perspectives on your questions. I know nothing of Win 8.1 or other MD/Win configs, but you may yet get some feedback on that.

That's about it for me...HTH.

 

 

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Thanks very much for the reply Bluecrab - it was very helpful.

I had not realised that some of the decks had switchable digital inputs/outputs. I had, mistakenly, assumed that as Minidisc was considered inferior to CD from a sound quality perspective that it wouldn't ever be more than 16/44,1 - looks like I was completely wrong on this!

I will spend some more time reading the information on minidisc.org and the linked manuals and see if I can understand the technical differences better.

I should be able to test out my question on SCMS later today now I have all the relevant leads/boxes to hand.

Thanks again for your help.

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Hello and welcome

By far the easiest and most reliable way to get data off your legacy MD's is using the last MD Sony produced called the MZ-RH1 (or MZ-M200). This will upload to PC at 4 to 10 times real time... and I have yet to improve on the result with any other technique involving optical (or analogue) playback.

They are expensive.

The MD format is basically 24 bits in principle, 20 bits in practice with a floating point stem or characteristic, which enables a very high dynamic range without using a lot of bits on disk.

If you can upload, then SCMS ceases to be a problem. However you have to watch out for encryption. Luckily Sony provided another tool which happens to solve that problem, although it was not their intention. Latterly VLC and ffmpeg can get around the DRM (encryption) on the most common formats (not including AAL which isn't encrypted to begin with). You can beat SCMS with several devices, since "pro" equipment ignores it.

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I can't speak to the Hi-MD solution, but I did want to mention that I have had a couple of outstanding results going from MD  > CD (standalone Aiwa CD-R) by setting my JA20ES d.out to 16 and using optical out. The resulting CD-Rs sound like...well, CDs. SCMS not a factor due to SCMS-killing device. MDs originally recorded @SP using MXD-D400.

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Hello and welcome

By far the easiest and most reliable way to get data off your legacy MD's is using the last MD Sony produced called the MZ-RH1 (or MZ-M200). This will upload to PC at 4 to 10 times real time... and I have yet to improve on the result with any other technique involving optical (or analogue) playback.

They are expensive.

 

Hi sfbp. Thanks for the reply. I had a quick look on eBay and you weren't joking about the MZ-RH1s being expensive! I remember almost buying one of these when they were still available new but did not in the end as I wasn't using the format as much and, in the absence of a Hi-MD home deck, I had little inclination to move to Hi-MD. Looks like I missed out on a potential profit there ;)

If I had a large number of discs that I wanted to transfer then I could definitely see the value in uploading but the number of original recordings I want to back up, as opposed to most of my MDs which are copies of my CD collection, is relatively small and so copying them over in "real-time" won't be too much of a chore.

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I can't speak to the Hi-MD solution, but I did want to mention that I have had a couple of outstanding results going from MD  > CD (standalone Aiwa CD-R) by setting my JA20ES d.out to 16 and using optical out. The resulting CD-Rs sound like...well, CDs. SCMS not a factor due to SCMS-killing device. MDs originally recorded @SP using MXD-D400.

​That's interesting. Are you referring to the Aiwa CD-R as a "SCMS-killing device" or a separate device?

SCMS does not appear to be an issue with the way I was intending to copy them. I made a couple of test recordings last night, of both MDs containing original recordings and copies of CDs, and do not appear to have encountered any issues. I copied a couple of tracks across to my PC and have been able to transfer the files to iTunes and my iPhone without any difficulty. I have not tried burning any CDs as yet but was assuming SCMS would have stopped me in my tracks by now if it was going to.

Just in case anyone ever comes across this with a similar query, the set up I am using is:

Sony MDS-JE500 > optical out > optical to coaxial convertor > Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 audio interface > Windows 8.1 PC running Reaper software.

The Focusrite interface and Reaper allow me to capture audio in a variety of different bit depths / sample rates so I need to do a bit more reading and testing to see which is likely to give me the best results (not sure if bigger is necessarily better when dealing with the output from my JE500).

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The Aiwa is totally bound by consumer CD-R rules; in fact, it will write to only the so-called "CD-R Music" discs, which cost more than the regular ones. But it's convenient for me because in my setup there's ton of connectivity between various CD and MD units, via a powered digital switch, which itself is connected to....

...the SCMS killer, AKA Hucht CDQ1-IHF Copyprocessor. In any case, based on what you have reported so far, I think SCMS is pretty much confirmed as a non-issue for you. FWIW, I have never had an issue burning various copies of CDs using iTunes on several Macs. In general, I think computer-based software ignores SCMS. You should be good to go!

Your idea of getting a "spare" deck is IMO sound, and any one of the 9*0 series should be a good fit. They all have optical out—always check for that feature in MD decks. If you're not concerned with LP mode, then you will have a wider selection of decks from which to choose. Good luck!

 

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The Aiwa is totally bound by consumer CD-R rules; in fact, it will write to only the so-called "CD-R Music" discs, which cost more than the regular ones. But it's convenient for me because in my setup there's ton of connectivity between various CD and MD units, via a powered digital switch, which itself is connected to....

I never realised that those "music" CD-Rs were anything other than a marketing thing. ​Didn't realise that they were necessary for consumer CD-R decks.

...the SCMS killer, AKA Hucht CDQ1-IHF Copyprocessor. In any case, based on what you have reported so far, I think SCMS is pretty much confirmed as a non-issue for you. FWIW, I have never had an issue burning various copies of CDs using iTunes on several Macs. In general, I think computer-based software ignores SCMS. You should be good to go!

​Yes, I seem to have dodged an SCMS shaped bullet fortunately. Useful to know that there is a solution though if I come up against an issue in the future with a different set up.

Your idea of getting a "spare" deck is IMO sound, and any one of the 9*0 series should be a good fit. They all have optical out—always check for that feature in MD decks. If you're not concerned with LP mode, then you will have a wider selection of decks from which to choose. Good luck!

​Thanks. I've been reading through the various manuals and information on minidisc.org. Got my eye on a few on eBay at the moment. Will hopefully find a suitable one before too long.

Thanks for all your help - it has been very useful.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just a quick update: I managed to pick up an MDS-JB980. It's in great condition - looks brand new. The only real downside for my purposes is the lack of a coaxial digital output but I have an optical to coax convertor I can use.

I have downloaded the SonicStage 4.3 "Ultimate Edition" from this site but have not attempted to install the relevant drivers for the JB980 as yet so have not tried out any of the NetMD functionality.

I have, however, been making my first MDLP recordings - only 15 years after Sony introduced it. Only tried LP2 mode so far, and have not carried out any real comparisons to SP mode, but it sounds pretty good tbh.

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That just remind me that I need to do it on my desktop.

depending on Windows 8 editions (I have the basic edition), the procedure is not exactly the same. i find the disable option in

PC Settings / Update & Recovery / Recovery / Advanced Setup / Restart Now

Edited by PhilippeC
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Thanks (again) Philippe. I've got Windows 8.1 but it looks like it's in the same place as you described.

Plugged a PS/2 keyboard into my MDS-JB980 for the first time today. Wow. Makes titling discs so much easier. Wish my MDS-JE500 had had this functionality back when I was making lots of discs.

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