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belts? cross reference?

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11/16 * 25.4 = 17.5mm

So if the thickness and cross-section shape of those 17mm belts is ok for the pulley groove then they should be perfect.

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3 minutes ago, kgallen said:

They might if I had the vaguest of ideas of how to read an imperial micrometer and what the scale of the graduations are!

Ha, is that an imperial micrometer? I thought it was in thousandths of inch. The sony belt does measure at 1.5 square.

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1.5mm is about 60 thou (1.5/25.4). Your micrometer reads 2 graduations (what is one graduation - a 1/32? a 1/64? something else?) plus 20 (20 what - thou?).

You're gonna have to help me out here with your tools. Whilst I use both metric (millimeters etc) and imperial (inches) all of the time depending on the work I'm doing, I don't think I've ever used an imperial (i.e. inches) micrometer.

Some other poor soul might chip in here and help us out...

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Just at sight, they are quite large for the groove, but the size of the rubber bands I am using are that thick too and they work like a charm. I have enough experience trying several different 17mm belts out of my shipment from the UK on several machines to say that no combination of those would work for me. Could not even begin to load a disc. You can see that they are smaller in diameter than the original... by far.

IMG_17mm and original belt e 12 transsport 7132.jpg

IMG_7181.jpg

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3 minutes ago, kgallen said:

1.5mm is about 60 thou (1.5/25.4). Your micrometer reads 2 graduations (what is one graduation - a 1/32? a 1/64? something else?) plus 20 (20 what - thou?).

You're gonna have to help me out here with your tools. Whilst I use both metric (millimeters etc) and imperial (inches) all of the time depending on the work I'm doing, I don't think I've ever used an imperial (i.e. inches) micrometer.

Some other poor soul might chip in here and help us out...

I am at a loss to tell anyone how to properly read my own tool. It's something I own, but did not buy or ever use. I am a poor soul in need of belts.

I have two pictures I will send. One is measuring a 1/4" shaft, the other an 1/8th" shaft. 

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OK, listen up, this is how to read your micrometer from what I can glean from your pictures and references.

 

So on your micrometer main shaft:

  • the main scale is in 0.1" (so 100 thou).
  • the incremental scale is thus 25 thou (there are 4 per main scale)

On the micrometer ring, I'm assuming it goes 0 to "100" as the "20" looks like about a fifth of the way round

  • so the ring is in thou

When you read the main scale, you ignore any "part" increments because that extra bit is taken from the ring (which should be on 0 when you're exactly on an incremental mark). So only count increment marks you can actually see.

  • So your 1/4" rod is 2 *100thou (main scale) + 2 *25thou (main scale increments) + 20thou (on the ring) = 270thou (so about 1/4" which would be 250thou).
  • Your screwdriver is 1 *100thou + 1 *25thou + 10thou = 135thou  - so 135thou which is pretty much 1/8"

So back to the belts.

  • The thin one (the "old" one?) is 55 thou = 1.4mm
  • The thick one (the new 17mm?) is 70 thou = 1.75mm

A European teaching an American (?) to read an imperial tool - what next - Boris Johnson as UK PM?!

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4 minutes ago, kgallen said:

OK, listen up, this is how to read your micrometer from what I can glean from your pictures and references.

 

So on your micrometer main shaft:

  • the main scale is in 0.1" (so 100 thou).
  • the incremental scale is thus 25 thou (there are 4 per main scale)

On the micrometer ring, I'm assuming it goes 0 to "100" as the "20" looks like about a fifth of the way round

  • so the ring is in thou

When you read the main scale, you ignore any "part" increments because that extra bit is taken from the ring (which should be on 0 when you're exactly on an incremental mark). So only count increment marks you can actually see.

  • So your 1/4" rod is 2 *100thou (main scale) + 2 *25thou (main scale increments) + 20thou (on the ring) = 270thou (so about 1/4" which would be 250thou).
  • Your screwdriver is 1 *100thou + 1 *25thou + 10thou = 135thou  - so 135thou which is pretty much 1/8"

So back to the belts.

  • The thin one (the "old" one?) is 55 thou = 1.4mm
  • The thick one (the new 17mm?) is 70 thou = 1.75mm

A European teaching an American (?) to read an imperial tool - what next - Boris Johnson as UK PM?!

Ha, that's funny. Thank you for your deciphering! In the meantime, I did a google search for sony loading belts. They can be had on store sites such as walmart, (out of stock) amazon (6 available)  Problem is, they are $13.99 plus $4.63 shipping!!!

They are being supplied by a place called "buy parts here". When you call buy parts here you get some variant of global sales... fishy smelling. I already bought wrong belts from global. Also found them at "overstock" (two left) again 13.99 each. Neither give any specs. I would like to have the proper belts in my decks. But...At this point, I am just about to stick with rubber bands unless I can find a proper belt at a decent price. 

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If you really want genuine belts then having a search around Japanese sites might be worth a try.

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1 hour ago, kgallen said:

List of Sony machines using Sony loading belt part number 4-227-025-01:

belt_4-227-025-01.pdf 202.6 kB · 3 downloads

Just about to pull what little hair I have left OUT! At least we seem to have a proper part number from sony's files now...

4-227-025-01

I surely would like to have proper belt quality going in to my 940's as they are not easily extracted from my work station. As for the e12's, it isn't as much of a problem to remove the deck.(currently using rubber bands) The belt 4-227-025-01 pdf above is a fantastic resource. In a few hours, when they open, I will try encompass electronics in las vegas nevada. They list the item. (at a better price than most) I do still have two new belts on the way, (currently in new york and in transit) from "web-spare-parts". We shall see what they think the right belt is for a mds e-12. Many other sources show that belt (4-227-025-01) as out of stock or no longer available.

I would think that belts should be found for just about anything and going in incremental sizes so that you can retrofit just about anything needing a belt. Yet for some one like me, it has been difficult to find a supplier or to properly identify what I need. 

I found a Brazilian supplier, but would rather avoid any more international purchases or further guessing if they indeed know what the right belt is... A pair of belts from rubber king. At least in the picture they provide, the belts look more like the original sony! But why a pair of belts?

Another fact that throws me for a loop is the fact that some suppliers state something to the effect;

"This deck takes two belts, make sure you got the right one". There is only one belt in a 940 or e12....right?

 

 

pair-belt-4-227-025-01-loading-belt-sony-minidisk_183299290106.jpg

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Just found this info on how to measure a belt from the Wagneronline.com site. They show a host of belts in the 1.4mm square thickness.

HOW TO MEASURE

PLEASE READ ME! 
Suit Cassette, Portable, Dictation machines, Personal Audio, 3in1, Turntable, CD, and maybe some Reel to Reel.  
For Video it is advised that you use only original parts, please enquire. 
Please take care in measuring and selecting the correct size of belt. Extract and squeeze the belt together, measure its length then double it to give you the belts total length. Note: Do Not Order using the Length value. From the tables listed, read off the diameter. This is the value used in our codes. Choose the next size down if the belt is stretched. The thickness is a measure of the cross-section of the belt. If the belt is missing or damaged beyond recovery then you could duplicate the belt by running a piece of string around the mech' and use its length as a general guide. Please take advantage of our discount structure. The belts are available individually but are 10% cheaper if bought in bag quantities of ten (No mixed values). 
WHEN ORDERING QUOTE THE DIAMETER & THICKNESS ONLY 

They range from;

 

Image Order Code LENGTH More Info Cost inc GST Cart
noimage.gif
10X1.4 31 mm Details $ 3.00
noimage.gif
12X1.4 38 mm Details $ 3.00
noimage.gif
13X1.4 41 mm Details $ 3.00
noimage.gif
15X1.4 47 mm Details $ 3.00
noimage.gif
17X1.4 54 mm Details $ 3.00
noimage.gif
19X1.4 60 mm Details $ 3.65
noimage.gif
22X1.4 69 mm Details $ 3.65
noimage.gif
25X1.4 79 mm Details $ 3.65
noimage.gif
27X1.4 84 mm Details $ 3.65
blt9251.jpgimg
30X1.45 94 mm Details $ 3.95
noimage.gif
31X1.4 97 mm Details $ 3.65
noimage.gif
33X1.4 103 mm Details $ 3.65
noimage.gif
35X1.4 110 mm Details $ 3.85
noimage.gif
37X1.4 116 mm Details $ 3.85

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The E12 SM only lists one belt.

That supplier above confuses things by not being clear on what they mean by "length" in their table - "length" or "total length" per their measurement description. As it happens we can use some simple maths to interpret their data, but they could have been clearer...

So let's take their "37X1.4" belt listed with "length 116". Diameter is 37. Circumference of a circle is diameter x pi, so 37 x 3.1415 = 116mm. So what they list in the table as "length" is actually what they describe as "total length" (i.e. circumference) in their measurement instructions (i.e. double the measured squeezed-together length).

So you're looking at their 17X1.4 - or 19X1.4 if you really think the 17mm dia belts are too small.

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Yes, thanks.

I ask myself why the 17mm belts do not work for me when they are fine for others.

 

I have a completely new line on proper sony stock. Shipping from denver colorado. I will continue to show the results as time goes on. I bought out their current stock of 7 belts. Provides me with one extra. Fingers crossed. I was shown a picture of the item I am purchasing. Looks right!

12184B3C-7AB6-41EB-A009-0E9F2468F4C6.jpeg

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422702501

This has been a very long journey. Trying to get a stupid little “rubber band”. One of the biggest break throughs was the posting on this thread what the actual sony part number is.

4-227-025-01

I swam through a sea of wasted purchases from sellers around the world with generic pictures of belts regardless if it was “the one” for the mds e12 or jb940.

I waited for postage to arrive only to be disappointed at big-ole thick belts of varying diameter. I made calls, I drove to small repair shops, I was told by electronic repair facilities md decks are not worth the money to repair them. 

mdm-7 drives use this little belt to load. When the disc does not load properly you get a read error or a c-13. The disc will not eject in some cases, or it spits it back out in others. 

Between the 22 pro + consumer decks, car decks and portables I own. Along with the hundreds upon hundreds of discs I have recorded, I am not about to give up because they say they are not worth fixing.

Today my six pack of belts arrived from;

www.partsdistribution.com

in denver colorado. They are genuine sony belts repackaged for uniformity. They are the real thing and they work like there was never a loading problem in the first place.

Having the real part number opened up a wider range of possabilities. Amazon listes them, but are out of stock. Walmart lists them but are out of stock. Electronic parts distributers list them as discontinued. Using google search, armed with a real part number, I found partsditribution.com

I needed 6, I bought 6. Now I can begin the easier task of extracting the e-12’s currently running on true rubber bands bought from the $ store. Then the more difficult job of extracting two 940’s from my work station. And while I am at it, a belt replacement pack goes the tc-we835 cassette with eject failure.

my hair is already grey, so my face turned blue instead.

We can call this saga over. But the number 422702501 should be a header at the top of everyone’s post just to make sure no one else goes through hell and back for rubber bands.

pictures... An aray of used and new belts. My work station with the 940’s. A four belt pack for the cassette. Other than to save money, why would sony change from the robust gear driven mechanism of the 930 to a tiny little belt? I don’t know.

7917F8C9-9A94-4FEC-B0C5-B399A43067C2.jpeg

78D0AEEF-3315-4534-B337-6DE8EAB9CDCB.jpeg

DDC4B135-22B8-4741-8B04-7CD1FE68E45A.jpeg

3BA0DE5A-2226-4702-BB7E-ABF07AB675EF.jpeg

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422702501

one more thing. All you need to do is remove the four screws holding the drive down. Then insert the new belt on the pulleys through the front of the drive. It is that simple.AD7CF0C7-1C6E-487D-A94E-2502EB017D05.thumb.jpeg.4a40ee3b7b4aa1f41de031fdcf9907fc.jpeg

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people  might try some of belts  meant for other purposes. 

I think the ones  I bought 2 years or so ago now were  ones used to  tie hair up at the back into a pony tail. very cheap & about the right size

One of my JB940 decks  did the wont eject  trick so I tried some belts I got for this alternative purpose and seem to work.  Not the same size as the originals  but they are so small anyway they will stretch?  Will be interesting to see how long they last. But then I have a pack with must be 100+ belts  and changing them is not hard.

Changing the belt for the JB940 is not hard and best to  disengage the  swinging top bit by unslotting it at the rear and removing the  very small spring on one side? The the top bit  swing s up enough to  insert a new belt. Unlike a previous  contributor, I was unable to  change it from the front.

 

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Remove the four screws holding the drive down and just raise the front of the drive up over the faceplate. Tweezers will pull the old belt off and install a new one right throught the front md slot. No need for other disassembly.

rubber bands are not belts. Yes, they work. Interested in how long they would last.

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25 minutes ago, 2many said:

Remove the four screws holding the drive down and just raise the front of the drive up over the faceplate. Tweezers will pull the old belt off and install a new one right throught the front md slot. No need for other disassembly.

rubber bands are not belts. Yes, they work. Interested in how long they would last.

 

that maybe  true but these "rubber bands" for alternative purposes  dont have to be of the same  quality used for eg a belt drive  turntable or the  cassette  drive, where irrregulaties would have sonic issues?

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16 hours ago, 2many said:

Yep, just to load and unload. BUT... my belts lasted a bit over 15 years before they got a little slack. Rubber bands turn to goo in about five years.

that may or not be true. The only  thing I have noticed about  properly called  rubber bands  from stationers is that they can go brittle. They would have ceased to  function long before that happens. I just wont pay £4 or so  for a tiny belt for this type of function. if mine last 2 years thats  fine. As others have indicated you dont really know what you are buying when  you pay out £4 or so from an oem type  source. One related note if you have a few decks it is probably a good idea to remove the belt  if the decks are spares as the one I had to replace had just been in storage & I took it out to  test it - it was ok when I put into storage but the belt had stretched even  though not used.

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Did I miss this or what were the exact dimensions of the genuine loading belt that worked on the JB940?

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Sony part 4-227-025-01 if you can get it. Otherwise I believe we concluded 17mm diameter by 1.4mm cross section square. This is 54mm circumference.

I’ve been using 17mm (x1.2 I think) non-genuine parts but this hasn’t worked for all members, per the above story. 
 

Good luck!

Kevin

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