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i'll have another shot at it, will let you know tomorrow, this will be on player 602837 the one with the old 520 laser inside, something funny going on, will see if i can suss something out, have a good night for now

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24 minutes ago, sfbp said:

"AC" on the meter???? Whoa folks....

nah its the section below that, thats just a refrence pic from the net, its the 200m position two clicks below where that one is pointing

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7 hours ago, M1JWR said:

 0.9mw one is 19.7 and 7mw one is 62.1

Great, I knew you would find your way. Well done. These are the kind of realistic figures we want to see normally.

Now as you build your database, we can do our little analysis  :-) !

But I give you more time to do your tests before dumping my thoughts. That little table you already began to create will be very useful. You will essentially have these data:

- existing data: model name, serial number (to differentiate similar ones), two values from "IOP READ", [nominal IOP stated on the OP-s sticker], two $XX settings from "LDPWR CHECK" respectively, for read/write, total rec/play hours from "ERROR DP”, 

- measurements and comments: actual IOP mA values respectively (measured on the jig), [measured laser power values in mW for read/write - one day, when you get an LPM :-) ], comments on decks status ( working OK, read errors, write errors, etc.), conclusion on laser status, and "misc" (as always :-) ).

As you fill this database, you will see how the "book opens". Whenever you get hold of another deck and insert it's data to the table, you will see if that is worth to do anything with, from the laser's point of view.

I stop now :-) .

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Guys this is fantastic stuff. I’m learning too!

Keep up the great work and voyage of discovery!

@NGY you are a gem beyond words.

However for now the lid stays on my 530 as it’s working beautifully :-D Maybe I do some of these measurements on one of my 4xx decks...

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12 hours ago, kgallen said:

However for now the lid stays on my 530 as it’s working beautifully

these work perfectly, now ive done more conclusive tests, i can give you all more definitive results, i'll leave the best one until last, had to put wires to the clips as the meter probes wouldent fit, then the wires to the probes secured with black tape, so here we go

930 s/n 602837, 0.9mw $11 - 19.7// 7mw $90 - 62.1 //play 1005hrs //rec 120hrs //iop read 51.8 / 55.8 (the drive that got the ex 920 laser, spindle motor and owh)

520 s/n 6613980, 0.9mw $11 - 17.4 // 7mw $95 - 56.1 //play 945hrs //rec 8hrs //iop read 53.5 / 54.1

930 s/n 604153, 0.9mw $11 - 20.1 // 7mw $92 - 59.5 //play 7hrs //rec 3hrs //iop read 58.5 / 58.4

920 s/n 5515468, 0.9mw $10 - 19.4 // 7mw $90 - 60.6 //play 431hrs //rec 7hrs //iop read 55.6 / 56.1

930 sn 602724, 0.9mw $11 - 18.2 // 7mw $90 - 54.5 // play 106hrs //rec 10hrs // iop read 55.1 / 54.3

theres the other 920, i'll do that one at another time, as for the 40/70 series, quite difficult finding the correct ribbon for the jig, i am still looking, its people like ngy with much more knowledge that help us, if not for people like him we would not be where we are, much appreciated, will get back on deck errors etc next

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22 hours ago, M1JWR said:

these work perfectly, now ive done more conclusive tests, i can give you all more definitive results, i'll leave the best one until last, had to put wires to the clips as the meter probes wouldent fit, then the wires to the probes secured with black tape, so here we go

930 s/n 602837, 0.9mw $11 - 19.7// 7mw $90 - 62.1 //play 1005hrs //rec 120hrs //iop read 51.8 / 55.8 (the drive that got the ex 920 laser, spindle motor and owh)

520 s/n 6613980, 0.9mw $11 - 17.4 // 7mw $95 - 56.1 //play 945hrs //rec 8hrs //iop read 53.5 / 54.1

930 s/n 604153, 0.9mw $11 - 20.1 // 7mw $92 - 59.5 //play 7hrs //rec 3hrs //iop read 58.5 / 58.4

920 s/n 5515468, 0.9mw $10 - 19.4 // 7mw $90 - 60.6 //play 431hrs //rec 7hrs //iop read 55.6 / 56.1

930 sn 602724, 0.9mw $11 - 18.2 // 7mw $90 - 54.5 // play 106hrs //rec 10hrs // iop read 55.1 / 54.3

theres the other 920, i'll do that one at another time, as for the 40/70 series, quite difficult finding the correct ribbon for the jig, i am still looking, its people like ngy with much more knowledge that help us, if not for people like him we would not be where we are, much appreciated, will get back on deck errors etc next

Errors

920 / 5515468 / retry error - r/0c p/ff,/ total error - ff, / error history 00 - e04,/ temp check - t=03 (0f) ok

930 /604153 / retry error - r/01 p/00,/ total error 28,/ error history 00 - e01,/ temp check - t=ff (0d) ok

520/6613980/ retry error - r/ff  p/ff,/ total error - ff,/ error history 00 - e04,/ temp check - t =04(12) ok

930/602724/retry error - r/6d  p1/a,/ total error - ff,/ error history 00 - e07,/ temp check - t=04(13) ok

930/602837/ retry error - r/ff pa8,/total error - ff,/ error history 00 - e0a,/temp check - t=05(13) ok

diddent realise there was more in the error history until the last one so can give that which is 01 - 09 all e04, of course this is all double dutch to me so somebody else can have fun with it.

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These codes from the "Error History" are documented in the Service Manual. May not be of use to you immediately but they may be of interest in conjunction with reading other parts of the SM.

  • UTOC - User Table Of Contents - the area of the disc that holds track information - positions (addresses) on the disc, titles and other track-specific information
  • PTOC - An area of the TOC that is created when the disc is manufactured and cannot be changed, holding information like the length of the disc (60/74/80 mins)
  • Address - the entire length of the recordable track is manufactured with a "wobble" in the pregroove that encodes an address (number) that the deck reads to work out where it is on the disc

See the Minidisc Tutorial.

Get some of these on occasion is to be expected. Sometime the deck has to "retry" - bad spot on a disc or the deck got knocked for example.

image.png

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interesting, though dont see ff on there, that appears quite a lot, had a look through sm, diddent see reference to that there either.

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Total Error = ff

ff is not a code, it's a count.

It's the number 255. Your homework is to tell me how ff = 255 :-)

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Those "E" error codes only relate to the Error History which is a chronological list of the last 10 abnormal conditions that the deck detected.

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14 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Total Error = ff

ff is not a code, it's a count.

It's the number 255. Your homework is to tell me how ff = 255 :-)

understood the first line kevin, ff = 255, looked that up, way over my head, on a lighter note i do know about 42 though !!!!

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MD decks are computers at heart and as such use binary counting in their digital electronics, 0=low voltage 1=high voltage (well 5V or 3.3V). With 8 binary digits (bits) you can count from 0 to 255 in the same way as with decimal with say 3 digits you can count to 999.

Hexadecimal (base 16) is an easier way for humans to work with binary numbers because writing out strings of 0s and 1s is tedious and error prone. So instead of writing binary we often use hexadecimal.

In decimal, we have 10 "symbols" we use to make any number: 0,1,2,3...,9. When we run out (i.e. we get to 9), we increment the next column along (the 10's column). So the number ten in decimal is one-ten plus no-units, so we write 10. So when we count up 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, then we go 10 then 11,12,etc until we get to 19 then we count 20 (two tens plus no units).

All number bases work the same way. Hexadecimal is base 16, so we need 16 "symbols" to count with. We already have 0,1,2...9 we can use for the same purpose as in decimal, but we need 6 more, so we use the letters a,b,c,d,e,f.

So in hexadecimal, we count 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,a,b,c,d,e,f but then, as in decimal we've run out of symbols so we increment the next column along, and write 10. But this is not ten as in decimal. The number 10 in hex (we write 0x in front usually so we know it's hex, so we write 0x10). Well 0x10 means one-sixteen plus no units, or sixteen in decimal. So then we just count units again as we do in decimal, so 0x11, 0x12, ... 0x19, 0x1a, 0x1b, ... 0x1f, then as with decimal we roll again and get to 0x20. This is two-sixteens plus no-units, so 0x20 (twenty hex) is 32 decimal.

Keep going and when you get to 0xff you have "f"-sixteens plus "f" units. f in hex is 15 decimal, so we have 15-sixteens plus 15 which is 255 decimal.

Hexadecimal is useful for binary because you can take 4-bit chunks of binary and convert to one hex digit. Computers tend to be "8-bit" or "16-bit" or "32-bit" etc, so the numbers involved can be written using 2, 4, or 8 hex digits respectively.

Converting binary to decimal is a pain which is why hexadecimal (or octal - base 8) is used commonly in computing and digital electronics.

As humans we're naturally tied up with the decimal system, but there is nothing special about decimal (or base 10). You can have a number system of any base.

In decimal the "columns" are the ones, the tens, the hundreds, the thousands etc. They are ten-to-the-power numbers.

In hexadecimal the "columns" are the ones, the sixteens, the 256's, the 4096's etc. They are sixteen-to-the-power numbers.

In binary, the "columns" are the ones, the twos, the fours, the eights etc. They are two-to-the-power numbers. So in binary, 1011 (going R to L) is one plus two (no four) plus eight, or 11 (eleven) in decimal, or b in hexadecimal.

Hope that helps :-)

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So to round off, the error count reached 0xff. All that means is Sony implemented an 8-bit binary counter in which to count errors. That counter counts from 0 and when it gets to %1111_1111 in binary (i.e. all 8 bits have got to 1), we have counted to 0xff or 255 decimal. When they get there, they just hold that maximum count. Who cares if you've had more than 255 errors. If you've had 255 errors then investigation is needed - no value in counting to some higher number!

So they give you an error count that can go to 255 but they also store the last 10 (or maybe first 10!) diagnostics codes (the Exx codes) so the Service Tech can judge if there is some dominant issue.

Depending on what @NGY thinks, maybe for some machines we should reset the error record and then use the machine and thus get a fresh report of what the error conditions are the deck is seeing, rather than all of that historical stuff, some of which could be error codes captured years ago and are not necessarily related to the current condition or symptoms of our machine.

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8 minutes ago, kgallen said:

So to round off, the error count reached 0xff. All that means is Sony implemented an 8-bit binary counter in which to count errors. That counter counts from 0 and when it gets to %1111_1111 in binary (i.e. all 8 bits have got to 1), we have counted to 0xff or 255 decimal. When they get there, they just hold that maximum count. Who cares if you've had more than 255 errors. If you've had 255 errors then investigation is needed - no value in counting to some higher number!

i read through the previous post, exellent as it was some of it was over my head, i got the quoted post though, phew what a complicated set up, there must be many players with 255 errors plus and we will never know, unless you've had them from new or at least for a very long time.

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4 minutes ago, M1JWR said:

i read through the previous post, excellent as it was some of it was over my head

Nah, come on you're not that daft. You've found your way through this MD stuff. Give it a go, write some numbers down.

Choose something whacky like base 7 and count 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,20,...

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you diddent go out with carol voardaman did you , i remember pre decimal suppose the base number was 12 for that

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3 minutes ago, M1JWR said:

i remember pre decimal suppose the base number was 12 for that

Indeed it was - well a mixture of base 12 and base 20 too? (You have a couple of years on me, but not many!).

And clocks are essentially base 60 (although we use decimal numbers to count the seconds/minutes/hours).

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3 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Indeed it was - well a mixture of base 12 and base 20 too? (You have a couple of years on me, but not many!).

And clocks are essentially base 60 (although we use decimal numbers to count the seconds/minutes/hours).

yeah thats right when i think about it, anyway back to the lighter note 42, on hitchikers guide to the galaxy the question was whats the ultimate answer to the ultimate question, the world, universe and everything else, and the answer was 42, i do understand numbers fairly well, just all that lot is a lot to take in

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1 hour ago, kgallen said:

maybe for some machines we should reset the error record and then use the machine and thus get a fresh report of what the error conditions are the deck is seeing, rather than all of that historical stuff, some of which could be error codes captured years ago and are not necessarily related to the current condition or symptoms of our machine.

I fully agree.

Latest ten error codes give an idea, what happened recently. After taking notes on these I always do an "error refresh", and as you wrote, I keep going on with the tests/fixes/settings while keeping my eyes on the new errors appearing, if any. In case "total err" is increasig rapidly after a reset (i.e., shows "ff" again), that's an immediate sign in itself, that something wrong is happening.

Funny though that Sony uses different error code tables for certain deck families.

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i can reset 602724 quite easy as its ever present and a keeper, and from my untrained eye on the figures quite healthy

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Yeah, I forgot to mention... If you have a deck you already scrapped for parts, the 1mm pitch ribbons can be utilized for the test jig. Just cut a 7 threads wide strip with a pair of scissors, and you are there. The very first MDM-7 jig I made was improvized from a ribbon scrapped from an old inkjet/scanner device. But then I wanted a more professional looking one :-) , and bougth a similar pack of ribbons off ebay, also the SMD wire-to-board connectors.

Edit: if you don't want to hassle with SMD soldering, there exists the through-hole version of this connector. You can solder it into the other half of your test pcb board, and make another sexy jig :-) .

image.jpg.ec94e2cf66b23fabb77adab4b6b9d57a.jpg

(Generic picture, shows an 8 pin socket)

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