38 replies to this topic

[Michael_Walker]

apparently these are available here (i'm in Russia) So i am on the verge of picking one up.

the only problem is that i cant find much info on line ( what there is, is in Russian) and no manual in particular.

i need a HI-MD recorder to take to my band rehearsals and gigs and just dub the analogue main mix off the board every night (to save lugging my laptop across town every day).. recording into the line inputs of the 600

the plan would be record in PCM , take it home and dump the files to my puter.

I'm just wondering if the 600 will do the job, or if i should wait till august/whenever and get a 700/800/900. I would like to be able to at least set the input levels, dont know if i can on this model!

we have the MZ-NH600-LEE, MZ-NH600-SEE, MZ-NH600-WEE all available right now, near as i can tell they are just different colors of the same unit.

any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Michael_Walker]

hmmm.. seems that hi-MD CANT record linear PCM and then dump it to puter... here is the transcript of my chat with sony a minute ago:


Arnold: Hi, my name is Arnold. How may I help you?
You: Hi! I am trying to find some info before a Hi-MD purchase..
You: i want to use Hi-MD portable (with line inputs) to record my band rehearsals, and then take the unit home and dump the audio tracks to my computer.. is this possible?
Arnold: I am glad to know that you are interested in the new Hi-MD players.

** at this point i suspected that arnold was a BOT :-)

Arnold: Are you interested in recording a live music and then transfer that music to the computer?
You: yes, exactly.. .right now i have to lug my notebook computer across town every night.. would like to replace it with Hi_MD recorder!
Arnold: May I know the operating system of your computer?
You: currently, win2000 on all my machines
Arnold: Yes, you can do that Micheal. May I know the model number of HiMD player that you are interested in?
You: i'm in russia, and the only hi-MD machine currently availble here is the MZ-NH600/LEE ( also SEE & WEE, which i think are just different colors)... i am hoping i can get its menus to display english - i cant find a manula for it on the russian site. Apparently its an NH-600 + optical and line inputs, i'm not sure what domestic model manual would have the same 'recording' features...

Arnold: I am afraid I do not have information about models that are available on Russia.
You: OK... the other question ( aside from the menu language and whereabouts of a manual i could look at) is if you can tell me if PCM tracks recorded on th eunit, and transferred to the computer are stored in a lossless format ( like WAV file) that i can edit later?
[size=18]Arnold: I am afraid the PCM tracks from the MD cannot be transferred to the computer.
You: not at all? that kind of defeats the whole purpose of buying one! what kind of recordings CAN be transferred from the MD to the computer?
Arnold: The tracks that are recorded in HiMD mode (ATRAC) can only be transferred back to computer for editing.
You: hmmm.. so ATRAC3 (256K-ish) recordings is the best it can do,( if i want to be able to later edit the tracks on the puter), but i can record linear PCM to disks to sort of "archive" material (although i can never actually do anything with the archives - aside from play them on the MD unit) ??? Is that correct?
Arnold: Yes, you are correct.
You: thanks for clearing that up! is there a web site where i can get the exact details on the recording formats (particularly which ones i can later transfer to the puter and convert to a wav file for editing) ??
Arnold: Please note that not all the MD players support PCM format.
You: yes, sorry, i meant Hi-MD players, those are the only ones i am considering (due to the better recording fidelity allegedly possible)
Arnold: The Hi-MD players support PCM format.
You: OK, thanks very much for your time, arnold, have a nice day/evening/etc :-)
Arnold: I will forward few pages with with you can get more information on Hi-MD players and the formats.
Arnold: http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/[/b]
You: thanks very much :-)
URL Received: http://www.sony.net/...view/index.html
Arnold: Are you able to view the pages?
You: yes, i can see those :-)
Arnold: Is there anything else that I can assist you with?
You: thats all for now, thank youi very much!
Arnold: Thank you for using Sony Online Support today. Please feel free to contact us for further assistance.

[jazmaan]

This gets more bogus every week, Sony can take their HiMD and shove it!

[jadeclaw]

[Fray Adjacent]

I bet there is a way to do it, but Sony doesn't want to support it.

We just need some hax0r code wiz to figure out how to find the PCM data on the drive and extract it to .WAV.

[jadeclaw]

Well, the sounddata is directly accessible, that makes breaking any protection much easier.
What is wondering me is the fact, that the support and spokespeople at Sony always give out conflicting information, while the manuals are ambiguous about the software side.
However, the manual for the NH900 states that transferring PCM-Recordings can take a long time due to the limitations in the MD-System. (Page 121)
That tells me, that PCM can be uploaded...
If you want an advice, personally, I would take the NH900.
Reason: The edit mode, especially the rehearsal mode when dividing tracks, like it's done on home decks.
That allows to edit out unwanted parts very precisely. Much easier and quicker than with a wave editor on a pc.

The manuals are available onsite.
http://www.minidisc....tion_manual.pdf
http://www.minidisc....tion_manual.pdf
http://www.minidisc....tion_manual.pdf
http://minidisc.org/...tion_manual.pdf
http://minidisc.org/...ny/MZNH600D.pdf
(covers only the US-Version.)

[Michael_Walker]

Sure, i would "take" the NH900, or better yet the magnesium-bodied one (NH-1?) if it were EVER going to appear in stores here! But i have been waiting forever, i need this unit TODAY so i can stop dragging my notebook across town every day (its ancient, getting battered, - i just had to shell out $170 for a new screen, and frankly its just awkward carrying it on our crowded Moscow subways!)

But really, this is pretty utilitarian, i dont need 6-band digital EQ, or a radio, or digital headphone amp (well, maybe!) - just give me a pair of line inputs, and PCM-quality recording, and i have a serviceable notebook-replacement! I dont plan do do much EDITING really - recordings made with this unit will always be "captured" live performances, which means we will take the bad with the good, ("warts and all...") if the energy of the take is up to standards. No editing required! (just a little mastering on those keeper takes) :grin:

The main use for this right now is daily "rushes" where i dump the takes from our rehearsal to my main computer, convert them to fairly lo-fi 96K mono MP3, and post them on my webserver (or burn to CD) so the other band members can hear what they did.

Later, i would like to use it for recording actual GIGS in hi-fi PCM glory... anything actually releaseable would likely be from a gig, not a rehearsal. Hi-MD looked like a good way to archive gigs in PCM for future evaluation (usefull when we are gigging more regularly, since the giggage is cheaper than hard drives!

But i guess if the (much hoped for) crack around this PCM restriction isn't found, i can revert to lugging the notebook to gigs, or (shudder) buy a DAT machine ("DAT SUCKS!")

So, anyway ... count me in on the \"early-adopter\" bandwagon, i took the plunge and \"bought\" a MZ-NH600/LEE ( blue case) today!

Actually, i visited some shops (which had nothing but old MDs) and my wife (the only russian-speaker in the house) called a bunch of the largest SONY dealers, and was told "the Hi-MD isn't certified yet" - which i took as dealer-speak for "we can't get them yet"

I went to the russian sony web-store, (http://www.sonystyle...yle/main.screen) and had Lena CALL the web store and verify that they actually really DO have them in stock as listed on the front page. They said they did, and advised us to register at the web-store.

So, they NOW promise to deliver one to my house "within 5 days" (its friday evening here, and i wont be home this weekend anyway) for only an extra ten bucks delivery charge. So total cost, US$200.

[b]Now the traditional \"sony bad news in the fine print\": - it doesnt come with even a single Hi-MD disk! In fact, it doesnt even come with an "old" MD disk! It comes with NOTHING, not even a 10 cent AA battery! I have a suspicion that the russian distributor is probably strippng all the hi-MD media out of them to re-sell later! Or does SONY actually have the audacity to sell these without even one disk included?

I know one thing, the russian sony web-store doesnt offer ANY MD media! I have seen the 'old' MD media all over the place, so at least i can get a few of those at local kiosks. But it might be a couple months before i can get any Hi-MD discs so i can evaluate this unit properly!

I dont suppose anyone knows where i can buy them mail-order?

[Breepee]

Or does SONY actually have the audacity to sell these without even one disk included?

Every unit includes a HiMD disc, except the 600D :rasp:

btw, you can convert a standard MD to HiMD format, and try the PCM stuff out.

[jadeclaw]

Hmm, your "no disk included" made me wonder first, if a local dealer strips the packages. But Sony themselves are taking them out.
Checked Sony's site using Altavistas Babelfish.
Btw, in Germany, the NH600 comes without disk and battery too - so this is standard.
When you have it, please report about the results. Especially about uploading and exporting, since the manuals aren't specific about that.
Oh, and where can we listen in?

[jadeclaw]

Every unit includes a HiMD disc, except the 600D :rasp:

Then check the manuals - None comes with a disc.

[Michael_Walker]

I shall post some detailed reports next week :smile: - last week i was really looking hard to see a review of the Australian 'line-equipped' 600 version, but couldnt find any online. But this one will be well-documented (especially the mysterious software features)! I have lots of digital gear here, so can test the digital input too...

After i get it working, I can probably post a few 'snippets' of recordings over on my Canadian web-server (i dont have much bandwidth here...)

[jadeclaw]

Thanks in advance.

[Breepee]

Every unit includes a HiMD disc, except the 600D :rasp:

Then check the manuals - None comes with a disc.

Hmm, here in the Netherlands, Sony has a special 'action' that every unit (except the 600) has a HiMD disc.

[jadeclaw]

Then consider yourself lucky...

[sirpilf]

wtf u talkin about i saw 600s at target and i could clearly see a hi-md disc included.

but for russian distributers.. thats retarded.

[CrackBone]

guys what`s the problem?

if u can play the file from a computer connected to a hi-md, u dont need to copy it(well u cant) hehe - u just get software that records music from soundcard.

It might not have the original PCM quality( i might be incorrect in that one) but you can still record it.

[sirpilf]

i have a random question about sonicstage.

lets say ihave 2.5gb of MP3s... when i burn them to Hi-MD and SS converts it to atracplus3, am i actually doubling how much music is on my computer? is sonicstage actually making a second copy of the song on my harddrive? thats what some people claim is a big drawback about atracplus3 but i wouldnt know, any1 know?

[Bananatree]

I will be happy to send you a regular 74 min MD if you promise to send me something russian .

[jadeclaw]

@sirpilf:
It might be an introductionary offer, according to the manual and the websites, no discs are included.
Yes, SonicStage will copy it into the Atrac-format. That means, you will have 5 GB music on your pc.

@CrackBone: Sure, that's possible and the quality is retained as well as the data is taken off before it reaches the soundcard itself, but it takes time. 1 hour playing time == 1 hour copying time. That's why everyone wants uploading instead.

[Michael_Walker]

Zombietycho: thanks, but i can buy normal 'MD' media locally at any software kiosk on the street. :smile:

my soundcard does let me record off the soundcard "stereo mix" but i dont know if thats actually digital, or after its converted to analogue. In any event, IF indeed sony is streaming the PCM playback into the puter via the USB cable, then I am sure there is a way to capture it .

The question is, WHY should i have to jump through hoops to access the full fidelity data of MY own PCM recording of my own original music?

When I make analogue recordings off the line inputs, or indeed, digital recordings (off my digital guitar amp or mixer) through the digital input, then it should be nobody's business what i do with that data! (I assume Sony has SCMS incorporated in the digital input already, to thwart would-be copyright infringers*...)

* note: i know that such devices as a $200 Behringer SRC2496 Ultramatch Pro Format Convertor are routinely used to strip off SCMS data during digital transfers - i just do not advocate the use of such devices for piracy!