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cybercase

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Posts posted by cybercase

  1. Hello @d-9 and thanks for you great work!

    I'd love to port your changes into the web minidisc application.

    I can do that myself by looking at your detailed report and the source code in your repository (is that https://github.com/deenine/netmd_test, right?)
    The only thing that I can't do by self is testing the changes. Would you be willing to help me with that?

    I could create a branch in the netmd-js library (that's the typescript port of the netmd library from the linux-minidisc project) and do the changes.
    Then you could clone the repository, checkout that branch, and run some commands to see that everything works (of course I'll provide you all the instruction that you need)

    Let me know if you're in, then we could move the discussion over github :)

     

  2. 7 hours ago, zzzuppp said:

    No you're not alone! I too would welcome mono - I still collect 78s, among other things.

    Unlike making a Hi-MD version, I would have thought a Mono upload version shouldn't involve too much work? 

    I'll file it into the users' requests. I vaguely remember that SP mono should be supported by the NetMD protocol.

  3. 16 hours ago, blixabloxa said:

    Hi All,

    Thanks Stefano for this great web application. I got it working on Windows and Ubuntu without issues.

    I just got an MDS JE780, and was hoping this would work with it - but no luck so far. I am hoping Fabrickator and others can work it out.

    I did get NEtMD connectivity working with Sonic Stage on Windows XP in a virtual machine - after a few problems with drivers, but fixed with information from an old post by sfbp - Thanks!

    Could the use of USB sniffers be useful in seeing what is happening between the minidisc deck and Sonic Stage (samples linked below after quick Google search)? I am not an expert, but I am happy to help out if I can with getting traces for others to investigate.

    https://desowin.org/usbpcap/ and https://freeusbanalyzer.com/

    Cheers,

    Enzo

    Hello Enzo, happy you liked the app.

    The idea of using a virtual machine to run sonic stage and then using a USB sniffer is exactly what I've discussed with @Fabrickator (who owns a JB980) .

    On the paper, it could work. Then, once we've the communication logs we can try to fix the command-packets in the web minidisc app and see if it works.

  4. 19 hours ago, zzzuppp said:

    The next obvious question I'd like to ask Stefano is this one: any chance you can make a version that works for Hi-MD? That would be amazing.

     

    Maybe in the future... Right now I don't have the time, the resources, and the devices to work on the HiMD protocol.

    I've started this project to keep myself busy during the lockdown, and I had a lot of fun working on it. However, as things are going back to normal, I'm moving over to other projects. I'm always available fix bugs and provide support to anybody who's willing to work on the app.

  5. On 5/25/2020 at 4:49 AM, Henry Sun said:

    Hi Stefano, what a great job! I have successfully connected my sony N-10 netmd with both Macbook and Win10 labtop!All funtions well, write a song, change a track, wipe a disc, etc. I then was a bit curious about whether this could also work with sony network walkman, So I connected my sony NW-MS E-10, the web application actually can recognize the device, but can not conect and write a song. I am wondering if this could be a potenial possibilty for these old sony network walkman, such as NW-MS E-10, NW-MS9 family etc? 

    anyway, thanks for your wonderful work!!

    Henry

    Hello @Henry Sun, I'm happy you liked the app.

    I'm not sure how other Sony players work. The fact that the browser can recognize the device means that, in theory, it's possible to access the device from the browser; However it's unlikely that your walkman is using the same NetMD protocol that has been used for minidisc. This is why probably the app cannot connect to your network walkman.

  6. Ok, let's do it :)

    I'll help you to setup the dev environment on your mac, and show you where the issue is. Let's move our conversation to the side so we can figure out the details and schedule a call.

    I'll send you a PM with my contacts.

  7. Hello Fabrickator, I'm happy you liked my little side project.

    I'm aware that unfortunately some devices don't work well with the web minidisc app.
    There are probably minor differences in the NetMD protocol between one device and the other, and this likely the issue you bumped into.

    Debugging the protocol's code is not something that can be done easily without a physical device, and it would be pretty hard to do this remotely.

    The best solution is probably to find a developer, who has access to an MDS-JB980, that's willing to work on supporting this device.
    I would be happy to provide all the support to him and to integrate the required changes into the app, but the debugging process would be left to the developer who has access to the device.
     

  8. Hello Lewis!

    15 hours ago, LewisGamer said:

    Signed up to say how amazed I am with this app!

    Thanks! I'm happy you liked it :)

    14 hours ago, LewisGamer said:

    * Use the software to import a CD (with added cddb information) direct to a minidisc player (i have a daft amount of CDs, and to be able to do this would be sweeeeet!)

    I second what @Stachu said. You can use Exact Audio Copy to rip your CDs to flac or wav or mp3.... all these formats are supported by the minidisc app. I've also found a quick guide that should help you to get started https://www.techradar.com/how-to/how-to-rip-your-cds-to-flac . I fear that direct CD access is something that browsers cannot really do for now. However, I'll make some research and see if there's a way to do that. 

    15 hours ago, LewisGamer said:

    *Atrac3+ support... Might be a long shot, but thought I would ask. Loved cramming a shed load of songs onto one minidisc back in the day :D

    To encode the music I've used an external library that currently does not support atrac3+ (https://github.com/dcherednik/atracdenc/). However, I know that the guy who's developing this library has been asked to support atrac3+ as well. I'll keep an eye on his project and make sure to bring atrac3+ support in case he decided to add it to his library.

    • Thanks 1
  9. 1 hour ago, sfbp said:

    If I got rid of that driver, would WinUSB allow SonicStage to work correctly, do you think?

     

    Unfortunately Sonic stage wouldn't work with WinUSB. You would have to switch back to the unsigned driver... but I never tried the procedure myself. If you've a spare PC to test the app, I would go for that.

    1 hour ago, sfbp said:

    QHiMDTransfer never really solved some basic problems, unless I failed to keep up with the "final" release. They failed, for example to deal with tracks that started other than on a cluster boundary, and I'm not sure they ever managed to WRITE disks. But I admit I gave up when the group kinda fell apart, owing to pressures of "real life" (mine and theirs too).

    I understand. Reverse engineering a protocol like NetMD it's hard, takes time and resources. However, they've done an amazing job... And without their work I wouldn't have been able to write this app.

    1 hour ago, sfbp said:

    I don't have any "doubts" about what you've done - it's wonderful. But the many-times-cursed SonicStage has a lot of features.

     

    Thanks, I really appreciate you liked the app.

    By the way, Sonic Stage has undoubtedly a long history, and I know there's no competition with my app in terms of features. However, I still hope this might be useful to anyone who doesn't want to install an unsigned driver in his computer, or it's using a mac (like I do) or a linux pc.

    1 hour ago, sfbp said:

    But you maybe don't understand that its mode of access to the disk is entirely different from legacy (SP, MDLP) minidisc. It treats the formatted disk as a generic storage device, mostly

    I only read something about that. I've never owned a HiMD device to play with... maybe one day I'll buy a cheap unit on ebay.

    1 hour ago, sfbp said:

    The wonderful bit I am in awe of is your use of Javascript to make it all work. I recall how they said JS could be used for "just about anything", and this proves that rather nicely.

    That was exactly the challenging part of the whole project. Nowadays browsers let you build apps that are on par with standard Desktop apps, removing the hassle of downloading, installing, updating, and distributing the app on all the OS.

  10. Hi Stephen, thanks for trying it out.

    7 hours ago, sfbp said:

    Finally found time to try it out. The source code seems to indicate Firefox is an allowed choice. Well it wasn't. Please advise.

     

    That's my mistake. I forgot to remove the Firefox reference from the template I used to start the project.
    Unfortunately, Firefox does not support the WebUSB standard, and this is the sole reason why it doesn't work with it. Should the Firefox team decide to support WebUSB, the app will start to work like in Chrome/Chromium.
     

    7 hours ago, sfbp said:

    With the latest Chrome and an MZ-N910 (NETMD760 driver installed as per Sonic Stage) I get the message "unknown device from Sony Corp. - paired" for the selectable device in the connection window. Then when I selected it and hit "Connect" (blue button), it says Access Denied.

    I can try some more devices.

    What's the best way to diagnose this? Do I need to remove the "official" NetMD device driver? That will be a pain for many people (but not me, because I can simply go to a computer that has never had any Sonic Stage install, and access the music files I want to transfer, over the network).

    I'm not sure of what your current setup is, but if you're running Windows 10 then I suppose you're using and unsigned version of the NETMD760 driver.
    If this is the case, unfortunately the app can't work with such driver. The only way to make it work is to remove the unsigned sony driver and replace it with the generic WinUSB driver (I've linked the WinUSB driver installer in the home page of the github project).

    Using a computer which doesn't have any driver installed is the best way to test the app. Just remember that you need to install the WinUSB driver on Windows, or configure your access permissions on linux. Here's a few instructions on how to do it https://github.com/cybercase/webminidisc
     

    7 hours ago, sfbp said:

    The major gaps that I see from reviewing your materials are:

    1. Support for HiMD (HiSP, AAL, PCM etc). Let us know how we can help, eg finding you a HiMD to play with
    2. Support for ATRAC CD (this I created but the L-M gang told me to "fork off" and not being of a combative nature, I gave up) and maybe other ATRAC devices. NW-HD3 and 5, as well as things like the NW-F887 and NW-ZX1 and NW-S754/5/6 (Japanese model only). These are all seen as generic ATRAC Device(s) by Sonic Stage (and the now defunct Mora) and it would be really nice to have support via this new method.
    3. (mentioned before) Atrac Advanced Lossless

    Also I have no idea whether the encryption thing is still an issue as all my files are decrypted and I am not in a great mood to encrypt things to test this out.

    But this is great. The other thing which I believe may never be solved is the ability to reset the TrProtect flag which gets set on transfers from NetMD. If you can find a way round this, it would be amazing!!! Currently there is NO way to get NetMD-created tracks off an SP/MDLP disk except by playback. MZ-RH1 can do uploads to the PC (maybe you call them downloads!?) but only of tracks that were recorded by optical or analogue input.

    I basically wrote this app looking at my use cases, as a side project during this annoying lockdown.
    I reckon there are features that others would love to have, but I fear some of them are out of my reach, and that's why I open sourced the app, so that any interested developer could just clone the project and make the changes he likes.

    about your points:
    1. From the few reports I've received, I think that HiMD support cannot be done in the browser, as sony decided to "protect" the HiMD devices family by blocking the access to them.
    A workaround to this could be to bundle the app into an Electron container, just like Platinum MD, but at the current state that would be a lot of work.

    By the way, I'm pretty sure the official linux-minidisc project (https://github.com/linux-minidisc/linux-minidisc) does support HiMD through their QHiMDTransfer app. It might worth checking out.

    2 and 3. I'm not an expert of atrac devices, and not sure if they all use the same NetMD protocol, but that's definitely out of the scope of this small side project.

    About the TrProtect flag, unfortunately I'm not aware of any trick to remove it, but I'll definitely add this feature if I find a way to do that.
    About downloads from the device to the pc, I'm currently working on a simple feature to dump your tracks via analogue or optical output, since my device doesn't support usb downloads like the mh-rh1. I'll try to ship it during the next weeks.

    Hope this answers some of your doubts.

  11. 3 hours ago, sfbp said:

    Generally speaking, the non-MD ATRAC devices seem to prefer Hi-MD, if I recall.

    I'm very excited about the breakthroughs reported here and can't wait to try 'em. Unfortunately real life has been getting in the way a bit lately, hence my failure to chime in with everyone else and say "Well done". I am curious to read about the embedded technology - assuming it is based on the pioneering work done by the #linux-minidisc group and particularly Michael Karcher.

    One of the things I never persuaded him to work on was the AAL (Atrac Advanced Lossless) - he ran out of time as his career plans required to step away from MD endeavours. The codecs really cannot be that different as it appears that Sound Forge handles them seamlessly. From the description they must work in the same way.

    Absolutely! I ported the libnetmd from the linux-minidisc project to javascript and published as a library here: https://github.com/cybercase/netmd-js . This might help other developers who wants to write their own app, in case mine does not fit their needs.

    If you're interested in the technology I wrote a short article on my blog where I describe the steps taken to build the app: https://stefano.brilli.me/blog/web-minidisc/ . And the source code is available here: https://github.com/cybercase/webminidisc . 

  12. 1 hour ago, kris01 said:

    I managed to run this app on MZ-RH1 (Windows 10 PRO 64 ), but no luck with Sony MZ-N910 or AIWA AND-1, it detects both units and even records on MZ-N910 but when I remove the disc it is blank.

    Anyway great job Stefano!!!.

    Thanks kris01!

    Could you try to press the "stop" button on the mz-n910 after a recording, before removing the disc? That should force the TOC to be written, and the MD not seen as blank anymore.

  13. Hi @zzzuppp, I'm happy this will be a time saving for you :) 

    About your questions:
    1) I also would have loved to make it working on Safari. Unfortunately Safari does not support the WebUSB technology, and that's a requirement to communicate with the device.
    About offline usage, you can already do that. Here's quick video to show you how https://youtu.be/yh9xNzN-PUk

    2) If you select SP mode, every file is temporarily converted to uncompressed 16bit 44100Hz (raw pcm) and then sent to the recorder.
    If you select LP2 or LP4, after converting to raw pcm, there's an additional step to convert the file to ATRAC3 before sending to the device.

    Thanks for you thoughts and, yes, I'm in Italy. We're still on lockdown, but looking at the numbers it looks like the situation will get better in a few weeks... Today marks 1 month since the last time I've been out for other than grocery shopping, and I can't wait to go back to normal.

    By the way, thanks guys, I really appreciate, but don't worry about donating.
    I mostly decided to write this app to kill the time during the quarantine, and I actually had fun doing it.
    Let's say that if you'll ever come to visit Florence you can buy me a coffee :)

    Wish you the best!

  14. 33 minutes ago, BearBoy said:

    It also says that:

    I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that SP in SonicStage was some sort of "fake" SP and not the same quality as you'd get doing real time recordings on a deck/portable. I never paid too much attention tbh as I've never (until yesterday) tried using NetMD.

    Stefano, do you know if your app does "full quality SP"?

     

    15 minutes ago, Stachu said:

    PS. But I'm not sure how does the Stefano's UI deal with the SP mode?

    Yes, my app support full SP. Basically, when you select SP mode I'm sending 16bit 44100Hz uncompressed audio to the device that does the conversion to SP itself.

    That's why SP transfer takes longer.

  15. 1 minute ago, BearBoy said:

    So I wiped the MiniDisc I was using and ejected it (so the TOC would get updated). Re-inserted the MD and tried again but got the same outcome (i.e. it just shows "loading" but does not connect).

    Ok... then it's definitely something's up with the protocol. I'll try to add some debug logging during the weekend and see if can find a solution.

    Unfortunately it's pretty hard to make an app work without the real hardware for testing.

    By the way, I almost forgot to mention that there's another open source project for writing to minidisc devices. It's called Platinum MD and they just released the new version of their app for win, mac and linux here: https://www.reddit.com/r/minidisc/comments/fqmn00/platinummd_now_available_for_mac_windows_and/ 

    I haven't used it, but people say it works well... maybe it's worth to give it a shot if my app doesn't work fine with your devices

     

  16. Just now, Stachu said:

    Regarding track titling - I transferred a WAV file that was Björk's song, and the file used "ö" in the file name. Thus, it was also transferred with "ö" and when I opened that on Win laptop and SonicStage - all those tracks containg "ö" in titles have strange characters in their titles. Maybe it's a good ise do add a rule that all latin-extended xharacters would be converted to basic latin characters on transfer?

    Oh, good to know. I'll definitely add that rule.

  17. Just now, BearBoy said:

    Can't seem to get it to work. This could well be user error though...

    • I connected the MDS-JB980 to my PC via USB and pressed the NetMD button on the front panel
    • I installed the WinUSB driver
    • I opened up Stefano's Web MiniDisc app and clicked on "Connect"
    • The pop up box appears showing Net MD
    • I select Net MD and click on "Connect"
    • The pop up box disappears and "loading" comes up on the main app page
    • It then just sits there displaying "loading" - I've waited about 5 minutes and am assuming that means it's not going to connect successfully

    Am I missing a step somewhere Stefano?

    Nothing missing... I guess it's still the same error that Stachu found in the console.

    Is the minidisc you put in the JB980 a blank one? If not, would you try with a blank minidisc? I fear it's something related to track titling.

  18. 3 minutes ago, Stachu said:

    And one more question - sorry! ;D

    Does the UI support bigger brothers eg. JB980?

     

    Just now, BearBoy said:

    If I can find a USB B cable (I've got one somewhere) I can check for you.

    It should, because I see that the JB980 uses the same NetMD protocol.

    However, as I said, I only tested with my mz-n710. Let's wait to see if BearBoy finds the usb cable :)

  19. 1 minute ago, Stachu said:

    Ok I get it. One more question as it may also be an RH1-related issue:

    I tested a SM MD with two albums recorded in LP2. Each Album stands for a group of songs, so that I've got 2 groups with 1 album each. But when Vieweing the MD via the web UI I can only see al records listed without groups - all at once. Is that correct?

    Yes, correct, but it's not a RH1 related issue.

    When designing the app I just decided to ignore groups because it's a feature that I use rarely, and didn't want to complicate the UI too much. However, I might add them in the future if people keep asking and if I come up with a nice way to add them.

  20. Just now, Stachu said:

    Ahhh yes, you're correct - I can control it again ;D

    A question: there are player's controls in the UI - but seems they don't work with the MD - when I click eg. the play button - nothing happens. Just curious...

    Well, I guess that's another "difference in the protocol" then... those buttons should tell the unit to start/stop the music playing on the device, while still connected to the computer.

  21. 2 minutes ago, Stachu said:

    BTW, after the last attempt, I can make the unit to be visible in the HiMD mode, but once any iof standard modes is set, the unit is again not being recognized by the Mac. Not sure what did I do wrong.

    You did nothing wrong. As far as I can get it, basically when you switch to standard mode the HiMD protocol is disabled and NetMD takes its place.

    HiMD falls into the "Media devices" usb class, so the os recongnizes it and the browser can't take control of the devices. On the other hand, NetMD protocol does not fall in that category, and it's basically seen as an "unknown device" for the mac, allowing the browser to see and control that device.

  22. 10 minutes ago, Stachu said:

    Ok, once tried again, the situation is the same, and the same console error.

    Nevertheless! It's still fantastic I can transfer records via Mac directly in SP modes ;D Can't find words of gratitude for your work - such a relief as I was forced to use an old WIndows laptop each time I wanted to transfer anything. I rarely erase MDs, still - I can do that on the unit ;-) I bet one day you'll make it work anyway ;D 

    One more question: does the UI support FLAC?

    Yes, UI supports flac, mp3, wav, aiff and a bunch of other formats. I'm also planning to add alac.

    By the way, this weekend I'll try to add some debug reporting to the source code, so that I might be able to fix that error.

    If it's not too much trouble, I'll get back to you after I added the debug code, just to ask for the new error report in the console.

  23. 1 minute ago, Stachu said:

    STUPID ME, I accidently pushed PLAY and connected it while the unit was playing music LOL. Once stopped, my Mac started to see the unit. I will now perform another test with Chrome console's errors and will drop them here :-)

    I'm glad everything's fine :) 

    Thanks for the help. I'll try to see what I can do with those Chrome errors... not sure if I'll be able to solve all of them because I don't have a RH1 for testing, but I'll try.

  24. 1 minute ago, Stachu said:

    Ok I will try with a blank disk first, but stuill - I'm unable to make the device visible in the system anymore :( Is there any workaround to force Mac to see the unit again?

    I guess you can switch the unit back to HiMD mode, and that should make the unit visible again on your mac.

  25. 4 minutes ago, Stachu said:

    Another bug. I rebooted my Mac to see if it would "reset" things, and when I connect RH1 - it's not listed in the devices list anymore. Seems like something went wrong on my Mac. Not sure what I can do now...

    Ok, great! that's what I thought. A slight difference in the protocol is causing the error.

    Try to wipe the minidisc using your device, that should fix the problem

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