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MZ-RH1 - kinda dissapointed

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zahg

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Had my RH1 for a few days now and getting used to the controls which felt fiddly at first but still find the controls less accessible than my RH10. My main problem is with the fact that some features can only be accessed via the remote control - surely this is a fundamental design error. Remotes in my opinion are there to make life easier, and have never been necessary to control the equipment. My experience of remotes has always felt cumbersome, I usually end up disregarding remotes in favour of direct unit access (never found a comfortable and easy to access place to clip the damn thing on my person).

The 'remote only' features that I'm referring to (that I use) are bookmarks - which you can actually set on the unit but there is no indication on the unit display to say the current track is bookmarked, and setting the PlayMode to play only bookmarked tracks can only be done on the remote - why the hell is this not part of the units menu system?? (By the way - possibly a fault on my unit but my bookmarks are not being saved. After ejecting and reinserting the disc all bookmarks are gone, anyone else experiencing this?)

The other remote only feature I use reasonably often is the sound equalizer mode - again no indication on the unit to say what setting it is on, and something that can only be changed on the remote is retarded. Did they just run out of time to implement this on the unit menus??

Also miss the scroll wheel which would allow me to quickly goto track 137 of 180 on a Hi-MD disc, now I have to tap the forward key 136 times! (Is there an easier way?)

Another gripe (and for me almost a feature which was a reason by itself to buy this unit) was the fact that display settings are remembered, i.e. displaying track remain time is a feature I like to have set on all the time but this was not possible before, anytime a disc is ejected (or a track deleted!) the display setting goes back to normal, but the RH1 was meant to remember my settings but this is not the case, settings are reset. At least I only have to press one button now to get to the right display setting.

My actual reason for getting this unit was for the legacy MD support and being able to transfer old MD recordings to my PC, I have not actually tried this yet but I really hope it works!

The RH1 is certainly not the near perfect product I had hoped for. =(

-zahg

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Had my RH1 for a few days now and getting used to the controls which felt fiddly at first but still find the controls less accessible than my RH10. My main problem is with the fact that some features can only be accessed via the remote control - surely this is a fundamental design error. Remotes in my opinion are there to make life easier, and have never been necessary to control the equipment. My experience of remotes has always felt cumbersome, I usually end up disregarding remotes in favour of direct unit access (never found a comfortable and easy to access place to clip the damn thing on my person).

The 'remote only' features that I'm referring to (that I use) are bookmarks - which you can actually set on the unit but there is no indication on the unit display to say the current track is bookmarked, and setting the PlayMode to play only bookmarked tracks can only be done on the remote - why the hell is this not part of the units menu system?? (By the way - possibly a fault on my unit but my bookmarks are not being saved. After ejecting and reinserting the disc all bookmarks are gone, anyone else experiencing this?)

The other remote only feature I use reasonably often is the sound equalizer mode - again no indication on the unit to say what setting it is on, and something that can only be changed on the remote is retarded. Did they just run out of time to implement this on the unit menus??

Also miss the scroll wheel which would allow me to quickly goto track 137 of 180 on a Hi-MD disc, now I have to tap the forward key 136 times! (Is there an easier way?)

Another gripe (and for me almost a feature which was a reason by itself to buy this unit) was the fact that display settings are remembered, i.e. displaying track remain time is a feature I like to have set on all the time but this was not possible before, anytime a disc is ejected (or a track deleted!) the display setting goes back to normal, but the RH1 was meant to remember my settings but this is not the case, settings are reset. At least I only have to press one button now to get to the right display setting.

My actual reason for getting this unit was for the legacy MD support and being able to transfer old MD recordings to my PC, I have not actually tried this yet but I really hope it works!

The RH1 is certainly not the near perfect product I had hoped for. =(

-zahg

You speak the truth. This thing is far from a dream-machine. All the reasons you stated are great reasons against the rh1. Especially the lack of a jog dial and being to only use the unit when you want too, sony didn't get everything right with this one. Hopefully, the other 3rd gen units will offer more (if there even are other 3rd gen units besides the m200).

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Had my RH1 for a few days now and getting used to the controls which felt fiddly at first but still find the controls less accessible than my RH10. My main problem is with the fact that some features can only be accessed via the remote control - surely this is a fundamental design error. Remotes in my opinion are there to make life easier, and have never been necessary to control the equipment. My experience of remotes has always felt cumbersome, I usually end up disregarding remotes in favour of direct unit access (never found a comfortable and easy to access place to clip the damn thing on my person).

Sorry to hear that you found it disappointing zahg. Not everyone is going feel the joys of the RH1 but, it is your opinion at the end of the day. But let me reverse and explain why they are positives rather than negatives. The features and where they're accessible make complete sense. For example, playback features are sensibly kept to the remote of the unit.

Why? Well, being a very recording orientated device (like most high-end MD units are), the recording feature doesn't need the playback features. This is playback info, equaliser etc etc are etc etc. It would of been silly to put the titles etc on both the OLED and remote. To be honest, if you're gonna go record something; maybe a concert, you do not need to take the remote with you. You can't use the equaliser to record, don't need titling features, no need for bookmarking etc. I could go on.

As much as the playback features have been seperated from the unit and this is annoying for you, I personally think this is good. You couldn't pile all the info on the OLED and its kept the design of the RH1 really sleak :). I like to keep my unit tucked away so its hidden and safe, unlike iPod users ;).

The 'remote only' features that I'm referring to (that I use) are bookmarks - which you can actually set on the unit but there is no indication on the unit display to say the current track is bookmarked, and setting the PlayMode to play only bookmarked tracks can only be done on the remote - why the hell is this not part of the units menu system?? (By the way - possibly a fault on my unit but my bookmarks are not being saved. After ejecting and reinserting the disc all bookmarks are gone, anyone else experiencing this?)

As I've already said, the playback features are kept to the unit. Assuming you use it for playback, why would you want to keep getting the unit out to look for info on the unit? Thats why Sony included the remote with the unit.

The other remote only feature I use reasonably often is the sound equalizer mode - again no indication on the unit to say what setting it is on, and something that can only be changed on the remote is retarded. Did they just run out of time to implement this on the unit menus??

Again, playback feature..... and sensibly kept to the remote. This has actually been the same with all the units that have equiliser. (anyone correct me if I'm wrong). You can't use equiliser for recording and why would you want to modify the true sound of recording?

Also miss the scroll wheel which would allow me to quickly goto track 137 of 180 on a Hi-MD disc, now I have to tap the forward key 136 times! (Is there an easier way?)

If you haven't grouped your tracks, you can use the group +/- buttons to skip 10 tracks a time.

Another gripe (and for me almost a feature which was a reason by itself to buy this unit) was the fact that display settings are remembered, i.e. displaying track remain time is a feature I like to have set on all the time but this was not possible before, anytime a disc is ejected (or a track deleted!) the display setting goes back to normal, but the RH1 was meant to remember my settings but this is not the case, settings are reset. At least I only have to press one button now to get to the right display setting.

I think it only remembers if the unit goes to sleep and then press play to wake it up. When you take the disc out, it does reset the settings. I think you've got it wrong also, the recording settings are only remembered when you take the disc out and put it back in. That saves time for recording people :).

My actual reason for getting this unit was for the legacy MD support and being able to transfer old MD recordings to my PC, I have not actually tried this yet but I really hope it works!

The RH1 is certainly not the near perfect product I had hoped for. =(

-zahg

For me, it is dead perfect; both recording and playout. The factors that you have been describing are logical from Sony. They are slightly annoying, but its no good to overcrowd the unit and make it look ugly.......... which it certainly isn't. :):ok:

Edited by Tunster
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Tunster I hadn't thought of the design of separating out playback and record functions and I can see the motives for my perceived shortcomings now, but of the three MD units owned previous to this i've never seen so many functions not available on the player itself. I've resolved that I will now have to use a remote to operate this device since I use an MD unit for recording radio broadcasts AND for playback/editing that recorded material. I never use titling so I dont know whether that side is better or worse.

This reliance on a remote is the most damning for me, for years I have managed to do all I need without the use of a remote, occasionally I need to have an 'extension cable' and the remote serves that purpose very well.

I still think the unit OLED could have been better utilised, why not show the bookmark icon if the track is bookmarked (it flashes then turns off when you set one), probably not a biggie to most people but for me this is a very easy way to manage and filter out tracks on discs. One of the many display options should show whether the track is a bookmarked one - just silly to me.

Its getting harder to handle the increasing amount of material i can record on one disc, editing 2hrs 20mins takes work, and 8hours of material is very time consuming - the MD is better at editing than using a computer. I thought this was a semi pro device and assumed all features would have been self contained in the unit. The design of the device is like that of a desktop editing unit with the upward tilt of the display and all the buttons focused according to that view.

I guess you can't have it all, depending on what you require. It is a beautiful unit which is probably the result of the various design principles. The sound quality is definitly better than my previous models, and the bass seems phatter =), love the flashing red LED and the unit has had people hynotised when I've casually put it on my desk.

I will will continue using it and adapting to it, but i won't be selling my RH10 which I have increased respect for now - its much more practical unit for my needs. I will invest in a MC40ELK remote which may improve life with it.

-zahg

Edited by zahg
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Personally, I find the necessity of using a remote a drawback as well. The only true advantages of the new unit are that it will remember record settings and that it will upload legacy formats. If Sony were to upgrade the RH10 to do those, I think it would easily be the most popular unit. I do use the three line remote with my RH10 while biking to have easy access to the controls, but the unit's display is so much superior to the remote (larger, faster) that I almost never use the remote otherwise. I'd love to see Sony put those features in an RH10-like unit. I'd buy that ... and a HI-MD deck!

TK

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You can't use equiliser for recording and why would you want to modify the true sound of recording?

Would be nice to be able to EQ during recording...

I for one currently use mics which have a +5dB peak at the most loud frequencies, around 5 kHz. I guess equalizing before putting data to disc could effectively expand the dynamic range by 5 dB in this situation. I mean, really, because of this peak I have to set levels 5 dB lower, getting virtually 1 bit less resolution at bass and higher end

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Had my RH1 for a few days now and getting used to the controls which felt fiddly at first but still find the controls less accessible than my RH10. My main problem is with the fact that some features can only be accessed via the remote control - surely this is a fundamental design error. Remotes in my opinion are there to make life easier, and have never been necessary to control the equipment. My experience of remotes has always felt cumbersome, I usually end up disregarding remotes in favour of direct unit access (never found a comfortable and easy to access place to clip the damn thing on my person).

The 'remote only' features that I'm referring to (that I use) are bookmarks - which you can actually set on the unit but there is no indication on the unit display to say the current track is bookmarked, and setting the PlayMode to play only bookmarked tracks can only be done on the remote - why the hell is this not part of the units menu system?? (By the way - possibly a fault on my unit but my bookmarks are not being saved. After ejecting and reinserting the disc all bookmarks are gone, anyone else experiencing this?)

The other remote only feature I use reasonably often is the sound equalizer mode - again no indication on the unit to say what setting it is on, and something that can only be changed on the remote is retarded. Did they just run out of time to implement this on the unit menus??

Also miss the scroll wheel which would allow me to quickly goto track 137 of 180 on a Hi-MD disc, now I have to tap the forward key 136 times! (Is there an easier way?)

Another gripe (and for me almost a feature which was a reason by itself to buy this unit) was the fact that display settings are remembered, i.e. displaying track remain time is a feature I like to have set on all the time but this was not possible before, anytime a disc is ejected (or a track deleted!) the display setting goes back to normal, but the RH1 was meant to remember my settings but this is not the case, settings are reset. At least I only have to press one button now to get to the right display setting.

My actual reason for getting this unit was for the legacy MD support and being able to transfer old MD recordings to my PC, I have not actually tried this yet but I really hope it works!

The RH1 is certainly not the near perfect product I had hoped for. =(

-zahg

Sorry dude, but you didn't even mention the BASS output of the unit. That's what we all want to know. Until people start giving feedback on that, it's not worth discussing.

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My actual reason for getting this unit was for the legacy MD support and being able to transfer old MD recordings to my PC, I have not actually tried this yet but I really hope it works!

It does! And after waiting for so long there's something really satisfying about finally getting my old legacy recordings onto the PC and then back onto Hi-MD discs.

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My experience of remotes has always felt cumbersome, I usually end up disregarding remotes in favour of direct unit access (never found a comfortable and easy to access place to clip the damn thing on my person).

For me, remotes are essential tools for on-the-go'ness (but I can live with a very simple remote when moving about), but they're less-than-ideal for "sitting at the desk" control of the Hi-MD unit. They move easily, the buttons are all over the place and not conducive to easy access when stationary. They are simply awkward to control on the desk, in comparison to easier, stationary unit access with nice wide jog wheel (think MZ-NH700, MZ-NHF800, etc)

The 'remote only' features that I'm referring to (that I use) are bookmarks - which you can actually set on the unit but there is no indication on the unit display to say the current track is bookmarked, and setting the PlayMode to play only bookmarked tracks can only be done on the remote - why the hell is this not part of the units menu system??

I like visual display of Bookmarked tracks, too. Seems obvious to me not to omit them. All that space on the unit's display and not enough for a bookmark icon? Hmmm :)

The other remote only feature I use reasonably often is the sound equalizer mode - again no indication on the unit to say what setting it is on, and something that can only be changed on the remote is retarded. Did they just run out of time to implement this on the unit menus??

Hmm. The MZ-RH1 seems to follow MZ-NH1's approach. Make sleek minimalistic unit. Some remote-exclusive functionality. Albeit with a (good) recording focus.

Also miss the scroll wheel which would allow me to quickly goto track 137 of 180 on a Hi-MD disc, now I have to tap the forward key 136 times! (Is there an easier way?)

The scroll wheel/jog dial is an absolute must for me. When sitting at the desk, I like to manipulate my Hi-MD direct with the scroll wheel and buttons on the unit itself with maximum ease, not an easily-moved remote control. I like to have a solid unit that sits there giving me 3-line display as a minimum. The jog dial is an absolute must. After getting an MZ-NH700, I relegated my MZ-NH1 to recording duties because of the display and wheel alone; they make a tremendous difference.

I only listen to linear PCM so there aren't normally a lot of tracks (except on my own recordings), yet it's SO much easier to switch to what I want (and see where I'm going). My playback style can best be described as generally linear + odd randomness. Random changes are simply so much easier with a wheel and 3-line track display. Bare minimums, if you ask me. I can live with a simple remote most of the time for playback when moving, though. So, for my needs the new unit doesn't satisfy me on the 'stationary playback at the desk or sitting-on-the-bus' scenario - only on the recording front, much like the MZ-NH1.

Still, I would buy one when/if the price drops enough for the recording features/form factor alone (and perhaps the increased bass response the developers talked about).

The RH1 is certainly not the near perfect product I had hoped for. =(

No single unit can be, IMO. Some have expressed their disapponment in the lack of playback focus of the new model, and it's for this reason we can argue (or not) that another 3rd generation Hi-MD model is sorely needed (I believe it is), but who knows what the market is like now? Only Sony.

So all you early adopters, buy up. Make Sony release another one :)

Edited by tekdroid
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When recording - non-stealth - on location with the NH600 or the NH1, I always use the remote (MC40) simply because that's the only way to display levels etc when the unit is flat on its back on top of other equipment. And I keep the display always backlit. The nice thing about the RH1 when it get out here to Australia is that I will be able to dispense with the remote for recording, and I won't need it for playback either 'cos I'll be dumping straight to the PC and wiping the MD.

It really is a recording-oriented machine.

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I guess everyone is different - I think the main advantages of the RH1 over the RH10 (desptie the obvious ones that have already been mentioned) are the HD Amp, improved MP3 playback and slimmer form factor. The RH10 is way too fat...

Those three main advantages also made me move the RH1. The HD Digital Amp is absolutely pheonominal! Hooked it up only analoguely upto my hi-fi system and bass response is superb, even made the downstairs table shake :lol: . For a playback unit, its a SQ heaven :D .

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... but they're less-than-ideal for "sitting at the desk" control of the Hi-MD unit. They move easily, the buttons are all over the place and not conducive to easy access when stationary. They are simply awkward to control on the desk, in comparison to easier, stationary unit access with nice wide jog wheel (think MZ-NH700, MZ-NHF800, etc)

I totally agree with you regarding remotes, I used to use them alot mostly cos I felt I should since it was a sexy addition to the the kit and so felt obliged to. But they are a royal pain in the ass, stiff wires coming out of both ends, clips that dont stay clipped, fiddly buttons and controls. Operating on a desk is really awful, they just dont stay still and I always have wires in the way of something else i use on the desk. Now a wireless/bluetooth remote would be wonderful?!

-zahg

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