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TOC/Clone Help

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vore

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I spent about an hour editing one of my MD recordings (deleting and combining some tracks) on my deck. At the last edit the TOC displayed "blank disc". HORROR!!!

There were supposed to be 12 tracks on the disc. This has happened to me before on my portables but never on my deck. It was the interview with Peter Townsend that Howard Stern was supposed to have with him before he bugged out on 10-25-06.

Is there a sane comprehensive instruction written for cloning a TOC? I have read some of them but they are complicated and differ depending on what you read.

Out of the hundreds of discs I have (thousands) there are 4 that need to be cloned. I know there is a way of getting the original TOC working again. I've been putting off the cloning issue but this afternoon I am really pi$$ed off. All that time and effort just to have the information vanish. Where's my cassette player?

Also:

I've also noticed that some of the edits don't take. On my portable when I edit out a minute or two of a recording, I make sure to shut the unit off for for the edit to occur. Yet when I go back to it the edit did not hold and I have to re-edit.

Edited by vore
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I don't think theres really an all-inclusive instruction set written about TOC cloning at this point. Most likely because it only works with legacy MDs... On the other hand there also really should be one (note to self) because a lot of peoples legacy portables are at that stage where the recording head ribbon cables are starting to breakdown and cause blank disc errors and corrupt TOCs.

That said, I'm not sure if your deck is able to do the procedure or not,... I have a modified MD-R700 that I use exclusively for TOC cloning, and have done so many times for numerous people here.

I'll try to write up a decent instructional on the procedure as a separate topic, but for now:

The basics behind it are fairly simple.. You need to get a "source TOC" to your "victim disc" as I say.

- Create a "source disc", which is a disc with 1 long track (entire length of disc) recorded in whatever format your lost recording is in. This will be your "Source TOC".

- Insert your "source disc" into your TOC-capable recorder, and after the "source TOC" is read into memory, you eject the "source disc" without the unit knowing (tricky part).

- Insert your "victim disc" (again, without unit knowing the disc has been swapped).

- Make a small edit.. such as naming the track, and then have the unit write the "source TOC" to the "victim disc".

The result will need to be trackmarked again, and works best if there hasn't been extensive deleting/moving tracks around on the disc.

If you'd be willing to modify (permanently) your MZ-G750, I could walk you through the steps as it is the same unit as the MZ-R700 (except the remote).

EDIT: Just noticed the RIP next to the G750 in your sig... is it completely dead?

Anyways, feel free to PM me if you want some help.

Much thanks for your help. I will try this on a trial disc and I'll follow your instructions to the letter and let you know. I'm aware that if this isn't done correctly any hope of getting the last TOC back would be lost. I can do this on my inexpensive deck recorder/player correct? All my recordings are standard LP4 mode.

There should be a simple concise way of dealing with this and perhaps a standard instruction manual will come out of it. :thank_you2:

My G750 still has life to it but it will not play or record. When I turn it on it says "recharging battery" or "No disc" but that's it. I'm sending it to Sony soon. I already contacted them and I gave them my credit card number. All I have to do is pack it up and bring it to the Post Office when I have time. How would I even modify my G750? Do you mean opening it up and performing micro-surgery? I don't think so....lol :scratchhead:

Edited by vore
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That would me MiniSurgery I guess.. hehe, and no its not all that much, just getting around two switches.

Don't worry though, if you mess up you won't lose any of the audio data (unless you start recording over it somehow), so you wouldn't ruin anything if the procedure doesn't work right for you.

Here is a procedure for modern-ish Sony decks: http://www.minidisc.org/cloning_procedure.html

If you can't get it to work, I'd be glad to do the cloning myself if you are comfortable mailing the disc(s).

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That would me MiniSurgery I guess.. hehe, and no its not all that much, just getting around two switches.

Don't worry though, if you mess up you won't lose any of the audio data (unless you start recording over it somehow), so you wouldn't ruin anything if the procedure doesn't work right for you.

Here is a procedure for modern-ish Sony decks: http://www.minidisc.org/cloning_procedure.html

If you can't get it to work, I'd be glad to do the cloning myself if you are comfortable mailing the disc(s).

Thanks so much for your help with this. I'll read all the instructions throughly. Because I have to read up on some of the definitions like "dirty the TOC" and "source disc" and "super undo" I'll try to simplify all this so I can understand it.

In the instructions there is a term like "tricky part" or sneakily eject the disc without the machine knowing....LOL. These terms have prevented me from performing this proceture in the past.

I'll have to take a blank disc, record on it (with no line source) for 5 hours and 23 minutes then go through the instructions carefully. I assume that after I record "nothing" for 5h:23m I'm to somehow sneak up behind the deck and pull the power cord.

What was Sony NOT thinking by not having a simply way to do this. They have an "undo" function in the menu selection. Unfortunately I turned off the deck after the disc read was "blank disc" Had I not turned the machine off, I might have been able to simply undo the last edit the machine made.

Again..thanks for all the time you put in helping me.

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After you record a blank disc for 5h, you want the unit to write the TOC, just make sure you aren't recording on your disc you want to save. So no tricky part there.

Dirty the TOC just means make some edit (like naming the track) so the unit knows to re-write the TOC. This is done after you have successfully swapped discs without the unit knowing, which is the tricky part. Something with service mode, you'll have to figure that part out from that link.

I just re-read the link and realized how confusing it all sounds, it's really all not that bad once you do it. The instructions in that link make the whole thing sound ridiculously complicated.

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After you record a blank disc for 5h, you want the unit to write the TOC, just make sure you aren't recording on your disc you want to save. So no tricky part there.

1. Take a blank disc and Record (in the same format) "nothing" Lets call it Disc A

2. Let the deck write the TOC

Dirty the TOC just means make some edit (like naming the track) so the unit knows to re-write the TOC. This is done after you have successfully swapped discs without the unit knowing, which is the tricky part. Something with service mode, you'll have to figure that part out from that link.

3. After the TOC writes to this disc give it a name or date. Let the TOC re-write this info.

4. Go into TEST mode (don't press anything after this)

5. Eject this disc while in TEST mode

6. Insert the disc that was mistakenly erased. Lets call it Disc B

7. Pull the power cord to turn off the machine

8. Plug the machine back in

The mistakenly erased disc will be restored onto Disc A

I just re-read the link and realized how confusing it all sounds, it's really all not that bad once you do it. The instructions in that link make the whole thing sound ridiculously complicated.

Paraphrasing Einstein...Keep things simple, don't make them simpler. The instructions on that link is a perfect example of over-writing. It pre-supposes-pre-suppositions and mixes them together with the instructions.

Did I miss anything?

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Moved your step 3. to step 8.

This should work:

1. Take a blank disc and Record (in the same format) "nothing" Lets call it Disc A

2. Let the deck write the TOC

3. After the TOC writes to this disc give it a name or date. Let the TOC re-write this info.

3. Go into TEST mode (don't press anything after this)

4. Eject this disc while in TEST mode

5. Insert the disc that was mistakenly erased. Lets call it Disc B

6. Pull the power cord to turn off the machine

7. Plug the machine back in

8. Give it a name or date. Let the TOC re-write this info.

This will write the TOC from "Disc A" (which is stored in the unit's RAM) to your accidentally erased disc, "Disc B".

All assuming your unit will go into test mode and allow you to eject your disc (without the unit acknowledging this) and all.

Edited by raintheory
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Moved your step 3. to step 8.

This should work:

1. Take a blank disc and Record (in the same format) "nothing" Lets call it Disc A

2. Let the deck write the TOC

3. After the TOC writes to this disc give it a name or date. Let the TOC re-write this info.

3. Go into TEST mode (don't press anything after this)

4. Eject this disc while in TEST mode

5. Insert the disc that was mistakenly erased. Lets call it Disc B

6. Pull the power cord to turn off the machine

7. Plug the machine back in

8. Give it a name or date. Let the TOC re-write this info.

This will write the TOC from "Disc A" (which is stored in the unit's RAM) to your accidentally erased disc, "Disc B".

All assuming your unit will go into test mode and allow you to eject your disc (without the unit acknowledging this) and all.

Excellent...Einstein would be proud of both of us. You sir...Are a peach!!! :imsohappy:

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Raintheory,

I'm giving this a try today. I started to record a blank disc so in about 4 1/2 hours I'll make the attempt. I found out there is no easy way of entering test mode with my deck.

I found this:

http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/servi...vice_manual.pdf

A few additional "tricky" maneuvers.

I'll have to integrate these instructions (if they work) into our compilation.

Wish me luck....lol

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I did it!

I thought I screwed up the 5 plus hours of recording "nothing". The first try didn't hold (must have done something wrong with naming the disc) but I simply reinserted the blank disc again and performed the required steps. I have my recording back. I'll have to edit at the commercials again but it will keep me happily busy.

The great thing is I believe I can reuse the "nothing" blank for all of the discs I have to restore. So I might not have to record another 5 hours. Seems logical?

The tricky part was pulling the plug and pressing buttons. Then I realized I could plug the mini disc deck into an outlet on my receiver that turned off when I turn my receiver off. I guess that would qualify it as sneaking up on the deck.

I'll do another test and restore another disc and define and augment the instructions but they were pretty clear after you and I went over them. Again raintheory...thanks so much for your help.

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Great!!!

You should be able to reuse the 5hr blank disc you recorded with no problems. I made a set of discs (1 of each format) to use specifically for cloning.

You've passed the initiation, welcome to the MiniDisc TOC Cloning Club! The MDToCCC! (I don't know, just made it up) ...currently only 2 active members I believe...

... us!!!

:friends:

EDIT: I guess I'll start working on a reasonably straightforward tutorial, seeing as it does work on your deck (and probably others not mentioned in the other link). Would be nice to have a dedicated (stickied possibly?) post to help people out.

Edited by raintheory
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Great!!!

You should be able to reuse the 5hr blank disc you recorded with no problems. I made a set of discs (1 of each format) to use specifically for cloning.

You've passed the initiation, welcome to the MiniDisc TOC Cloning Club! The MDToCCC! (I don't know, just made it up) ...currently only 2 active members I believe...

... us!!!

:friends:

EDIT: I guess I'll start working on a reasonably straightforward tutorial, seeing as it does work on your deck (and probably others not mentioned in the other link). Would be nice to have a dedicated (stickied possibly?) post to help people out.

Great idea! One thing I want to do is clone another disc so I can be sure of the procedure I performed. I believe you don't have to edit the disc giving it a name or date. I did this initially and it didn't work. The second time I tried it, I just played the mini disc as usual after the clone and then I let the TOC do the editing when I turned the machine off.

I'm proud to me a member of the MDtoCCC :clapping:

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