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kedara

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I'm a researcher up in the Indian Himalayas and using my MD MZ NH700 for recording interviews and folksongs. Lately I've had the troubling experience of not being able to transfer several recorded tracks onto my computer. If it were consistent trouble that would be one thing, but its not. Here are the facts

1) tracks to either side of the problem tracks transferred fine

2) this has happened on two different discs

3) in 2 out of 4 cases the track was able to play through the computer but not transfer

4) I currently have sonic stage configured to automatically convert to wave

5) the tracks play fine in the player itself.

6) The microphone i was using stop working but since I have replaced the microphone there haven't been any problems.

7) I am working in approx 32f - 50f temps at 12000 ft.

I'm planning to get them into the computer by hooking the player up to some speakers and then doing direct re-recording but I'd also like to know whether there's a better way and also if there's anything i can do to prevent this from happening again.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions or advice.

Thanks!

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I'm a researcher up in the Indian Himalayas and using my MD MZ NH700 for recording interviews and folksongs. Lately I've had the troubling experience of not being able to transfer several recorded tracks onto my computer. If it were consistent trouble that would be one thing, but its not. Here are the facts

1) tracks to either side of the problem tracks transferred fine

2) this has happened on two different discs

3) in 2 out of 4 cases the track was able to play through the computer but not transfer

4) I currently have sonic stage configured to automatically convert to wave

5) the tracks play fine in the player itself.

6) The microphone i was using stop working but since I have replaced the microphone there haven't been any problems.

7) I am working in approx 32f - 50f temps at 12000 ft.

I'm planning to get them into the computer by hooking the player up to some speakers and then doing direct re-recording but I'd also like to know whether there's a better way and also if there's anything i can do to prevent this from happening again.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions or advice.

Thanks!

Temps , that drop to freezing are not good for the MD , You need to make aThermal Pouch for the MD . 50 F - 85 F is MUCH better , 32 is just to cold for the mechanisms, and ribbon wiring ,it will cause them to get brittle and eventually break .

Solder joints can crack to , the type of solder used in MD circuitry is a special Very low temp solder . so it doesnt take extremes all that well . Also at higher altitudes , condensation can become a problem . With early morning especially bad , Condensation builds up ( even microscopically ) and depositis will build up on the circuit board and laser head . Minerals and chemicals from the atmoshere .

Neoprene fairly tight pouch covered then again by a clothe bag of some sort , will help with most of the above .

Edited by Guitarfxr
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:superstition:

Hi there!

I´m no minidisc expert, but as a scientist and fellow researcher, I would like to dispell a fair bit of vodoo nonsense from the replies you got so far.

1. Minerals do not dissolve in air. Period.

2. Some volatile chemicals do dissolve in air. However, if our minidisc units work fine in polluted cities all over the world, the clean air high in the Himalayas is unlikely to affect your recordings.

3. Dust might be a problem, if you record in windy and dusty places. Any plastic bac will cure your problems if this is indeed the cause.

4. It´s impossible for condensation to be the culprit. First, cold air at high altitudes is VERY dry and second, condensation only occurs when the object is COLDER than the surrounding air, therefore providing a cold spot for the humidity to condense, giving up heat and warming the object in the process. In your case, your MD unit is likely to be warmer than the ambient air (it comes from your pocket, backpack, etc.).

5. Low temp is likely the cause of your problems, but I think is the battery that´s causing you trouble. Alkaline battery chemistry is very sensitive to near freezing temperatures . Just switch to rechargeable NiMH, or even better, to disposable lithium AA batteries. They are expensive, but are cold insensitive and have a 10 year shelf life. You might consider doing some testing in a cold place (your refrigerator for instance) and see if the problem occurs after a while, to give the battery some time to cool down. Just remenber that condensation will happen on the MD AFTER you take it out of the fridge. Leave it open for several hours on a well ventilated place before using it again.

6. Static electricity might also be a problem. If you operate your unit in cold dry air, especially with synthetic clothes and gloves, you might be inadvertently zapping your unit and causing it to misbehave.

Hope this helps and good luck with your recordings!

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Spiff , ...........Thermalconductive materials , will cool faster than the surrounding ambient temperature , and in doing so Condense.

. Adiabatic lapse rate temp decreases at an exponential rate above thermal climactic change points . also the moisture in the air does not HAVE TO DISSOLVE minerals or materials to carry them , in plain Fact Rain is formed by Condensation of moisture onto particulates that are floating in the air , no particulates , no rain .

If he has his Md in his backpack overnight , When he takes it out in early moring sun , .....it will condense .

How many Telescopes do you own ? and just how much High altitude stargazing have you done ? Having to allow the mirrors to reach ambient temps before uncovering them . ? How many mirrors have you had to CLEAN because of someone NOT waiting .

Lens = Opticals = condensation . Which Carries garbage .

By the way I have been in some pretty moist High altitudes , and have seen the condensing with mine own oculars , my good armchair warrior freind

Furthermore , at those temps the plastics and cable ribbons will harden and stiffen to the point of

A: Providing inertial resistance to the head mechanism , making it difficult to keep the laser aligned properly .

B: Cracking and eventually breaking , thereby making the unit unusable

C: Just plain being disagreeable .

D: All of the above .

The Hypocratic oath , which applies in Both Science , and Medicine states "First , Do no harm " , Any advice given to someone who is actually doing something to benefit others rather than himself , should be handled with Extra Care , and with the desire to actually help , rather than state any personal accumen .

Just my 2 cents worth

Edited by Guitarfxr
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Kedara:

It may be that having SonicStage convert to .wav after recording is overtaxing SonicStage's capabilities. You might try un-checking that, uploading, and converting in a separate step.

But if it's still not uploading, you have an alternative since you say you can play the tracks through your computer.

Get Total Recorder. Standard Edition, $17.95.

http://www.highcriteria.com/

This will record whatever is playing through your soundcard. Go into Settings for whatever level of fidelity you want, from .wav on down. Open Total Recorder. Open SonicStage, hit the Record button on Total Recorder and play back through SonicStage, and you'll get a digital realtime re-recording of what's on the disc. Make sure you turn off other sounds on your computer (mail opening, popups, etc.) while you record.

Total Recorder makes your computer believe it's the soundcard by installing its own driver. If you have problems afterward playing back sound files, go into Control Panel/Settings/Sounds and Audio Devices and make your regular soundcard driver the default instead of the Total Recorder driver. I had that happen on one computer, but not others.

Tracks that play on the unit but not through SonicStage? Don't go through speakers. With a male-to-male cord, connect headphone out on the minidisc to line-in (or, if no line-in, mic-in) on your computer and record with Audacity, which is free.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Edited by A440
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Spiff , ...........Thermalconductive materials , will cool faster than the surrounding ambient temperature , and in doing so Condense.

. Adiabatic lapse rate temp decreases at an exponential rate above thermal climactic change points . also the moisture in the air does not HAVE TO DISSOLVE minerals or materials to carry them , in plain Fact Rain is formed by Condensation of moisture onto particulates that are floating in the air , no particulates , no rain .

If he has his Md in his backpack overnight , When he takes it out in early moring sun , .....it will condense .

How many Telescopes do you own ? and just how much High altitude stargazing have you done ? Having to allow the mirrors to reach ambient temps before uncovering them . ? How many mirrors have you had to CLEAN because of someone NOT waiting .

Lens = Opticals = condensation . Which Carries garbage .

By the way I have been in some pretty moist High altitudes , and have seen the condensing with mine own oculars , my good armchair warrior freind

Furthermore , at those temps the plastics and cable ribbons will harden and stiffen to the point of

A: Providing inertial resistance to the head mechanism , making it difficult to keep the laser aligned properly .

B: Cracking and eventually breaking , thereby making the unit unusable

C: Just plain being disagreeable .

D: All of the above .

The Hypocratic oath , which applies in Both Science , and Medicine states "First , Do no harm " , Any advice given to someone who is actually doing something to benefit others rather than himself , should be handled with Extra Care , and with the desire to actually help , rather than state any personal accumen .

Just my 2 cents worth

My dear friend:

This is hardly the place to start a scientific discussion. As a matter of fact I own several telescopes and I have lived in a few places above 3500 meters ASL in both the northern and southern hemispheres, both in cold and warm climates. Condensation will always occur on a surface that is colder than ambient temperature and not the other way around. If you are taking your MD from your pocket or any other place warmer than ambient temperature, as I stated in my earlier post, condensation will simply not occur. If on the contrary "If he has his Md in his backpack overnight , When he takes it out in early moring sun , .....it will condense" you are right, you just didn´t clarify it in your first post.

As for minerals "dissolved" in air, you said it yourself. They are particulates, not a solution, and they will precipitate given a little time. This is a problem in urban polluted centers, like downwind from a smelter, or from Rocky Flats after an "atmospheric leak". It is extremely unlikely in the environment described.

As for "Thermalconductive materials" (as in a chunk of copper....) cooling faster than other materials (such as plastic), you are quite right. But they will still only cool down to ambient temp and not below it, unless you want to mess with the laws of thermodynamics. The exception being if it´s part of a heat pump, such as a Peltier unit. This is simply not the case in a MD unit (as far as I know).

Finally, there is no Hippocratic oath for scientists. I see no particular benefit for myself in trying to impress you, since I don´t know any of you or vice-versa. I do not brag about the optical, audio or other toys I own, nor do I show-off my accumen by throwing around jewels like "Adiabatic lapse rate temp decreases at an exponential rate above thermal climactic change points" to impress the crowd. I simply try to convey simple ideas with a simple as possible language, just as I do in the classroom. I´m just doing my best to help somebody with a problem, by trying to clarify imprecise and vague statements. I apologize if I ruffled your feathers, but I believe you failed to convey your ideas in a clear and helpful manner.

Take care.

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  • 1 month later...

Dear All,

Thanks very much for your responses. Upon reading the posts I realized there was one detail I should have added: when not in use I usually keep the recorder inside a small Otterbox box, with some padding wrapped around it as well. I'll look out for a neoprene sleeve and some non alkaline batteries the next time I"m somewhere where they available, and I'll get a male male line in cord as well. I already have audacity, so that sounds like it would be a good fix. I'll also try re-importing the same files with wav disabled.

again, thank you very much!

regards,

Kedara

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