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Create mountable blank Virtual CD - any ideas

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1kyle

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Hi guys

There's loads of programs out there that allow a CD Image (.ISO / .NRG etc). to be mounted as a Virtual CD and your computer then sees this "Virtual CD" as an extra CD / DVD on your system.

This sort of program is built in to Nero (as Drive Image) ond doubtless other CD / DVD burning programs.

However none of these programs seem to allow you to mount an Empty / Blank CD " Virtual Image". This would be really useful as you could then eliminate totally the use of SS.

Your input library would be say FLAC (great lossless codec) -- create a Virtual CD from your FLAC libraray and use SB to burn to MD.

For MP3 music devices there's zquintillions of FLAC ==> MP3 converters.

I'm in the process of sorting out a CD library I've had for years and years -- been using MD's since they came out and my music library must now contain the equivalent of over 6000 CD's --- representing maybe 60,000 - 100,000 tracks.

Although I intend to go on using MD's for years to come, It's now about time I think that I junked SS --even though the latest version is actually quite passable. Sony's dropping of ATRAC makes this inevitable anyway. At least they could have opened up the codec -- but unfortunately that's not going to happen and the latest generation of Sony Walkmans don't even play the codec any more.

Fortunately my library is Atrac lossless so I can go to WAV then to flac without losing any quality. I've a few TB spare so I can do this over a period and have disk space for it.

I've toyed many times with which codec to use but it seems for archiving on Disk FLAC is the way to go -- I rarely / almost never use the computer for playing music so it's no pain for me to create a new MD as and when I need one. I can also store the FLAC library off line as well and can share it between computers.

If a new codec comes out in future -- no problem as the FLAC is lossless. Can always go to WAV and then the new codec.

MD simple burner is a great tool -- although it doesn't run on Vista just have a Windows XP virtual machine with SS and SB installed. You can then run on LINUX or WINDOWS (or even a MAC). For Windows you can get free vm software -- Virtual PC, for Linux you can get Virtual Box.

Otherwise commercial products are vmware and parallels.

Cheers

-K

Edited by 1kyle
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Well , I would say , Get a Mac , with OSX Tiger , And use Md Transfer 2.0 , in which anything HiMD that comes in (HiLP,HiSP,PCM) will be imported as WAV and will be unrestricted .

No OMA , files whatsoever No SS cataloging , or Database to deal with , and as that you have That many tracks You might find it worth the investment .

A HUGe hardrive and a good Mac, iMac , G4 , G5 , Macbook C2D ( dont get the first version of the Macbook Intel Core) Macbook Pro , You can make mountable drive images

BURN for mac is an Awesome straight forward prog .

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Why would you want to create a blank virtual CD? Simply burn your FLAC or whatever files in CD-Audio mode as an album to an image using Nero Burning ROM, and mount the image as a virtual drive using Nero ImageDrive (perfectly compatible with SS and SB).

The codec pack for Nero, which allows it to work with almost any audio format, may be downloaded here: http://www.cole2k.net/?display=NPI.

And don't forget to remove those annoying 2 second breaks that Nero inserts between tracks, before burning the image!

Edited by Avrin
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Why would you want to create a blank virtual CD? Simply burn your FLAC or whatever files in CD-Audio mode as an album to an image using Nero Burning ROM, and mount the image as a virtual drive using Nero ImageDrive (perfectly compatible with SS and SB).

ool"

The codec pack for Nero, which allows it to work with almost any audio format, may be downloaded here: http://www.cole2k.net/?display=NPI.

And don't forget to remove those annoying 2 second breaks that Nero inserts between tracks, before burning the image!

Thanks -- that works as well as winamp etc.

Having used SS for ages and coming up from the "Old School where you had to do your recordings in Real time or at best with a 2X CD ==> MD dubber all this computer manipulation of digital music files is totally new to me.

I certainly don't want to rip 6000 CD's again --even if I could find half of them again --some have long since gone to "That great player in the sky".

However thanks for your suggestion -- and I've backed up everything with at least 2 copies so I've got plenty of options.

Pity Sony never made the whole thing simply drag and drop.

While FLAC might not be the most efficient Lossless compression to use disk space is cheap enough, the codec is open source and will also run on Linux boxes so I'm not likely to have to go through this exercise again once I've got my files.

I don't bother with "purchased" or downloadable music -- in general quality is HORRIBLE especially at 128 kbs and less, so I have no issues with DRM.

As to the other suggestion from a previous poster - get a Mac -- not always possible especially if you have to connect to an Office / Corporate Workplace network and need to use their specialized Windows apps such as SAP applications etc which don't run on macs.

Personally I'd much rather use a Powerbook but there we are.

Cheers

-K

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Presumably,we all want to be able to manipulate the data files on a HiMD with something other than SS.

I'm feeling particularly dense this morning... please could one of you two explain again how to get things onto MD without using SS? I'm sure the idea would leap out at me if I kept rereading it. I do have Nero and all the tools there, I think. Maybe I'm completely missing the point of what you want to do.

I've never actually tried to put MP3 onto MD as I don't particularly need to - the only MP3 tracks I have were converted from WAV files using Nero or Sony's converter. Also most units don't play them back, so I avoided for compatibility reasons.

Perhaps you could enlighten me - I thought SB did the transfer track by track. Or is it as simple as building a data image and using Windows Explorer to copy the files over?

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Presumably,we all want to be able to manipulate the data files on a HiMD with something other than SS.

I'm feeling particularly dense this morning... please could one of you two explain again how to get things onto MD without using SS? I'm sure the idea would leap out at me if I kept rereading it. I do have Nero and all the tools there, I think. Maybe I'm completely missing the point of what you want to do.

I've never actually tried to put MP3 onto MD as I don't particularly need to - the only MP3 tracks I have were converted from WAV files using Nero or Sony's converter. Also most units don't play them back, so I avoided for compatibility reasons.

Perhaps you could enlighten me - I thought SB did the transfer track by track. Or is it as simple as building a data image and using Windows Explorer to copy the files over?

Hi there -- We still unfortunately need to have SS installed however you don't have to build a library or whatever -- this is where my "Virtual Disc" query came from.

After you've installed SS install SB (Simple Burner) as this is the only way to get stuff directly on to a MD without using SS.

SB however uses some components from SS at run time so you still have to have SS installed.

Now Burn a CD of the tracks you want to copy to your MD. Loads of programs will burn CD's from FLAC or almost any other format you care to choose.

Now simply use SB (Simple Burner) to burn those tracks directly to MD.

Note your MD will still be WAV or 256 kbs Atrac but the advantage is that you don't need to have any library of SS at all.

Caveat here -- if you want to burn MP3 MD's (RH1 only) you HAVE to import the tracks into SS -- but since MD doesn't have drag and drop I'd say why bother with MP3's on MD's.

For other digital music devices you can convert FLAC to MP3 on the fly so in any case you don't really need the SS library.

It's not Drag and drop to get stuff to MD but since creating and ripping "Virtual CD's" is a quick and easy process the extra step(s) involved more than make up for the problems of having a large incompatable ATRAC database (SS).

To get music / recorded audio the other way i.e to UPLOAD I'm afraid you'll still have to use SS for transfer -- convert to wav then store wherever you like. Delete the tracks from SS so you don't "have a library".

Hope this clears it up a little -- sorry it's not as simple as drag'n drop but should help.

cheers

-K

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I agree that the SS library is inflexible (you cannot easily move it, as far as I can see). I always export everything (that SS imports FROM the MD) to WAV that doesn't come from a commercial CD that I already owned. So the only reason for having the SS database is to do the export.

As I say, I should be really interested to be able to transfer straight to the HiMD files that are visible from Windows. However this doesn't deal with NetMD.

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I agree that the SS library is inflexible (you cannot easily move it, as far as I can see). I always export everything (that SS imports FROM the MD) to WAV that doesn't come from a commercial CD that I already owned. So the only reason for having the SS database is to do the export.

As I say, I should be really interested to be able to transfer straight to the HiMD files that are visible from Windows. However this doesn't deal with NetMD.

Hi again

NetMD is a pain -- however you can still do it. Play the tracks and use an optical out slot on your computers sound card with a product like total recorder. It's real time but only needs to be done once -- you can then save your tracks and do whatever you like with them.

I'm also lucky in that i have a high quality MD with an optical output so I can record legacy Net MD stuff to a PC directly (albeit again in real time).

Another way to get round the net MD restriction is to use a modern DVD recorder with optical input. Record your tracks to a

DVD via optical out and in and then rip the DVD to your computer.(Real time again though).

cheers

-k

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I thought that simply running the Sony-supplied conversion would produce OMA files with no encryption. It was recommended by someone here a long time ago, and I did it, then setting SS not to do the encryption. I don't recall the details exactly.

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I re-read your post just now. As I said, I seem very slow today (must be the weather, we are all lounging around as if we don't know what hit us), but I don't quite see how you answered either of my points.

Sure I can transfer to a MD with optical in, making tracks that are not restricted. I do that anyway because most of my tracks are things which I recorded using the analog input of MD deck, off LP, reel-to-reel, or Cassette.

So I don't really view the SS library as anything more than a slightly convenient organiser which could disappear at any time and I wouldn't lose sleep.

What I really want to know is

a. how to add files to the MD over the USB (in HiMD, since the files are just visible and presumably I ought to be able to zap the entire contents back and forth). I havent actually tried this yet. But seems like I should be able to pull all the files off one HiMD, and substitute another set (with different music) using ONLY Windows explorer. I suppose you're going to tell me those files are useless except on that particular disk.... sigh, if so.

b. how to move files to the MD over USB without using SS, for the NON-HiMD. I don't care about what NetMD does to them, unless there's a way to get them there unencrypted (same as when I record directly onto LP2 deck). Maybe that's the Rosetta Stone, getting them across USB without Sony's restrictions, but faster than x1.

c. How to make (and play back) an Atrac CD or image without having an Atrac player. I.e. can I make an image of an atrac cd and mount it using Nero DriveImage, and simulate the MD? This might be a way of backup painlessly whilst still having the majority of the library directly on some physical MD.

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What I really want to know is

a. how to add files to the MD over the USB (in HiMD, since the files are just visible and presumably I ought to be able to zap the entire contents back and forth). I havent actually tried this yet. But seems like I should be able to pull all the files off one HiMD, and substitute another set (with different music) using ONLY Windows explorer.

No way, Sir. No way. Don't try to ask me how I made my Windows 2000 treat one of my RH1's as a burner, but even in this case (bit-to-bit copying from one disc to another) - NO WAY. Ask me why? The answer is OpenMG.

b. how to move files to the MD over USB without using SS, for the NON-HiMD.

No way, Sir. No way. I' ve tried to [heh...] make a NetMD unit recognized as an external drive by hacking the respective drivers. NO WAY. Ask me why? The answer is OpenMG.

c. How to make (and play back) an Atrac CD or image without having an Atrac player.

Never tried this (don't have an ATRAC CD player). But am sure that there's NO WAY. Ask me why? The answer is OpenMG.

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No way, Sir. No way. Don't try to ask me how I made my Windows 2000 treat one of my RH1's as a burner, but even in this case (bit-to-bit copying from one disc to another) - NO WAY. Ask me why? The answer is OpenMG.

No way, Sir. No way. I' ve tried to [heh...] make a NetMD unit recognized as an external drive by hacking the respective drivers. NO WAY. Ask me why? The answer is OpenMG.

Never tried this (don't have an ATRAC CD player). But am sure that there's NO WAY. Ask me why? The answer is OpenMG.

Good to see you back.

Verrrry interesting!!!! (yup I tried the simple experiment now)

So it follows that when SS copies files to the MD directory it does so using some special undocumented call. Maybe even some encryption keys, but something has to be able to decode those, and the resultant disk is playable anywhere, right?

So: either the driver needs a magic password, or every SS-created disk has something in it that every single MD firmware ever created must know about.

Right?

Stephen

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Right!

But the main problem with the NetMD mode is that a unit in this mode is not seen as a drive by Windows. It is recognized as an abstract USB device, and the only way to communicate with it is via the respective driver. On the other hand, a unit in Hi-MD mode is seen as a drive, and does not actually require any drivers.

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Right!

But the main problem with the NetMD mode is that a unit in this mode is not seen as a drive by Windows. It is recognized as an abstract USB device, and the only way to communicate with it is via the respective driver. On the other hand, a unit in Hi-MD mode is seen as a drive, and does not actually require any drivers.

So there are two possibilities:

1. there's a code embedded in the device. In which case either a service manual or a firmware update (if such exists) ought to allow us to figure it out; or

2. the USB traffic will show the special stuff going to the NetMD/HiMD. Hacking the driver is a secondary issue, because the first thing to do is to identify what is being sent just by looking at it. I have no idea about USB sniffers, but I bet they exist. Isn't that where to attack it?

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So there are two possibilities:

1. there's a code embedded in the device. In which case either a service manual or a firmware update (if such exists) ought to allow us to figure it out; or

2. the USB traffic will show the special stuff going to the NetMD/HiMD. Hacking the driver is a secondary issue, because the first thing to do is to identify what is being sent just by looking at it. I have no idea about USB sniffers, but I bet they exist. Isn't that where to attack it?

There's some encryption algorithm in all of these --I tried taking Hex dumps of the files and doing a Bit for Bit copy. Note the Bit for Bit copy is File system independent so Windows or whatever didn't get in the way. This didn't work (the copy worked and the target disk compared 100% bit for bit / sector for sector with the original but the target disk wouldn't play) so there is also something in the hardware driver that sets some bit or updates something that enables "Playability" on the disc that a normal data reading program won't see or can't access.

Apparently nobody has managed to hack their way over the OMG system yet or if they have they aren't saying anything.

I think about 2 years ago there were some threads on this board concerning this topic.

I'd be very interested if someone comes up with a decent answer.

I've also tried hacking the MP3 converter --also without sucess since this obviously "unscrambles" the OMA files so windows (or Linux etc) can cut and paste these to new music devices.

My suggestion for anybody who'se got time to mess around with this stuff would be to poke at the most vulnerable area --this IMO would be the Import and Transfer functions of SS and then work from there.

Please note -- Ideas presented here are for LEGITIMATE uses only --i.e you can get your OWN LEGAL Non DRM'ed music / recordings into any format convenient for you and to be able to play the music on ANY device you might own.

I take NO responsibility for people trying to break DRM or other copyrighted material.

Cheers

-K

Edited by 1kyle
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There's some encryption algorithm in all of these --I tried taking Hex dumps of the files and doing a Bit for Bit copy. Note the Bit for Bit copy is File system independent so Windows or whatever didn't get in the way. This didn't work (the copy worked and the target disk compared 100% bit for bit / sector for sector with the original but the target disk wouldn't play) so there is also something in the hardware driver that sets some bit or updates something that enables "Playability" on the disc that a normal data reading program won't see or can't access.

Exactly.

That's why I suggest comparing the transactions actually being transmitted over USB with what ends on the disk. Not sure how to do it (yet).

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Exactly.

That's why I suggest comparing the transactions actually being transmitted over USB with what ends on the disk. Not sure how to do it (yet).

Hi Steve

If you get somewhere with this please post.

Currently I'm totally absorbed by Euro 2008 -- the European Football (Soccer) championships and the Wimbledon Tennis so I'm not really looking at computers at the moment very often.

I'm sure given enough collaborative effort and the sheer power of modern computers --even a humble laptop will do -- we can crack this.

Cheers

-k

Edited by 1kyle
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