Jump to content

Yet another post from the new guy

Rate this topic


Xeys_00

Recommended Posts

At the risk of annoying everyone else, I thought I'd post about my experiences so far with my new gadget, my minidisc netmd player. Now, I know everything I'll talk about is old hat with 99.99 % of the people on here, but it's a forum for self expression, and I like to express myself. My fiance is getting a bit tired of hearing about the minidisc thing. Because I plan on marrying her, I thought I'd save our relationship and talk about it on here instead. So... A few random observations. Sonic stage recognizes just about every CD I put in the computer. Itunes didn't. I thought they used the same database, so where's the problem? Ripping to LP2 seems a lot faster than ripping to mp3. Not sure why that is either. As far as sound goes, the lp2 files sound differently based on where they are played. The player makes them sound a lot better than the computer does. Same file, different sound. I showed my fiance, and she asked to listen to something she knew, in her case, it was Meatloaf's "Bat out of Hell". She said it sounded a lot better than it did on her ipod nano I got her for Xmas. But said she would keep the ipod and not trade it out, thank you very much. "Burning" a minidisc is pretty easy, except for that annoying space remaining gauge in the upper right hand corner on Sonicstage. It reads how many minute left on the disc in SP mode. Which I can't record using that software, as far as I can tell. I wish I could. But as far as I see, there is only fake SP, which just pads the bits on the track and makes it compatible with old minidisc players. Is line in(via optical) SP better than LP2 to the point of being obviously noticeable? When I get my 707, I'll check that out. Battery life is very nice, burned 10 discs 2 days ago, and the same battery still reads full. Downloaded a bunch of MP3s is high bitrates(192 and 320), and they transcoded just fine. Sounded great. In the event that I record 10 or 11 tracks in SP on Ah, the discs themselves. Seems to me a disc equals a playlist on itunes. But it's pretty easy to just flip thru my discs and get my workout mix vs hooking up my ipod and downloading that playlist. Also, it's kind of neat to actually have a physical, tangible object(the disc) in your hand. It makes the music seem a bit more "real". Now, I understand that some have said hi-md is a better way to go. I want brand new equipment, and now that I've gotten on ebay and looked, for the most part, brand new hi-md recorders are rather expensive compared to brand new net md recorders/players. For netmd, A player only unit runs about 30 brand new. A recorder with line/optical in but no mic will run brand new between 50-80. All 3 inputs on a brand new unit will cost more. If I were willing to accept used, I could get better prices, I know, but I want it new. So, anyways, I guess that's my random muttering for today. Any thoughts? Should I just shut up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All portable players made after a certain date have "Type-S" playback which enhances the sound of LP2 and LP4. A few (but only a very few) decks have it too. It doesn't affect SP.

To get SP onto your portable: a. use opti-in (forget about line-in, IMO, though it might work just fine) b. get a deck. Both of these are real-time recording solutions. The MXD-D3 would get you x4 though I am not 100% certain you lose nothing on transcoding from CD. I know for sure that the x4 transcoding from CD to LP2 doesn't work properly, at least on my MXD-D400.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All portable players made after a certain date have "Type-S" playback which enhances the sound of LP2 and LP4. A few (but only a very few) decks have it too. It doesn't affect SP.

To get SP onto your portable: a. use opti-in (forget about line-in, IMO, though it might work just fine) b. get a deck. Both of these are real-time recording solutions. The MXD-D3 would get you x4 though I am not 100% certain you lose nothing on transcoding from CD. I know for sure that the x4 transcoding from CD to LP2 doesn't work properly, at least on my MXD-D400.

Oh yes, I have a macbook pro with(i think) optical out. This could prove useful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shut Up ! ? No need for that IMHO ! First off, I think your better half should be happy that you found something that makes you so happy. You seem to be going through what every true minidisc fan goes through the first time they purchased , listened to and recorded with a minidisc. I think it's truly fantastic that you found minidisc so late in the game and that you seem to have fallen head over heals for this medium. I have purchased enough MD's (Legacy,NetMD, HiMD and blanks) to last me the rest of my life - I am totally committed to the system until I draw my last breath. I am sure that there are many more people similar to me that fel this way - so welcomr to the ranks ! B.I.L.B.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All portable players made after a certain date have "Type-S" playback which enhances the sound of LP2 and LP4. A few (but only a very few) decks have it too. It doesn't affect SP.

To get SP onto your portable: a. use opti-in (forget about line-in, IMO, though it might work just fine) b. get a deck. Both of these are real-time recording solutions. The MXD-D3 would get you x4 though I am not 100% certain you lose nothing on transcoding from CD. I know for sure that the x4 transcoding from CD to LP2 doesn't work properly, at least on my MXD-D400.

...I know for sure that the x4 transcoding from CD to LP2 doesn't work properly, at least on my MXD-D400.

What do you mean, exactly, by its not working properly? Seems to work fine on both my 'D400s @ 4x. (And also @ 2x on both my MXD-40s.)

If you use the 'D400 to copy from CD in SP @ 4x, then you do not get the same result as copying from CD @ 1x. This condition is documented by Sony, although they don't say exactly what you do get. But LP2/4 should be the same at any speed, at least so I was informed right here some time ago.

P.S.

My apologies for the prior reply with no response - an accident!

So, anyways, I guess that's my random muttering for today. Any thoughts? Should I just shut up?

Yeah, I have some thoughts. Keep muttering. Keep sharing. Don't shut up. Your enthusiasm is good for all of us here! :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Xeys_00

The MZ-N707 was the one that got me started on minidisc. Never looked back.

If your main interest in minidisc is as a player, look around and get the NH600D (the D is for downloader, no mic or line inputs) Hi-MD unit, probably quite inexpensive. And I just saw a new NH600, which has a line/optical input--though no mic input--on Amazon UK for £69. You could fill one Hi-MD blank with 45 hours of music if you don't mind LP2 (or the similar Hi-LP) quality. Or eight hours of Hi-SP, much better quality. That's a long..........workout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yes, I have a macbook pro with(i think) optical out. This could prove useful.

Macbook Pro has Optical in AND out ....... the 1/8 connectors on the left side , are white ... use a Toslink Cable to go from that out , to the MD

I do it all the time . one caveat thought , is the Digital out on the Macbook is constant , meaning you wont get track marks . it will come out as one big file .

For Auto track marking use the Analogue cable ( Same output ) but go analogue to the MD , and in the Silent parts it will put track marks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you mean, exactly, by its not working properly? Seems to work fine on both my 'D400s @ 4x. (And also @ 2x on both my MXD-40s.)

What I mean is that I noticed all sorts of artifacts when I took a real live commercial purchased CD and made a MD at x4 using LP2. Specifically I noticed the speech of the narrator (it was a children's disk with music) went all hissy. But the result of this and other copied disks sounded lifeless and dull (just playing back on that MD right away). As soon as I coded LP2 using 'puter, or x1 on the D400, no problemo.

I note that at least one of the earlier combo decks is documented as NOT doing x4 at all for LP modes. Could it be that Sony realised that the h/w they had didn't quite cut the mustard?

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Macbook Pro has Optical in AND out ....... the 1/8 connectors on the left side , are white ... use a Toslink Cable to go from that out , to the MD

I do it all the time . one caveat thought , is the Digital out on the Macbook is constant , meaning you wont get track marks . it will come out as one big file .

For Auto track marking use the Analogue cable ( Same output ) but go analogue to the MD , and in the Silent parts it will put track marks

Ok, cool. I am surprised that transcoded high quality mp3s sound as good as they do on my player. I had read of "reduced quality", and had expected them to sound bad. They sound just fine. Has it always been this way, or did mp3s at one time suffer significantly from the transcode process?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No need to apologize and welcome to the brethren brother!

The few and the proud...indeed.

I myself am a faily recent minidisc adopter and plan to stay that way for life. Fortunately MD goodies are still faily common in my country and I am stocking up for a lifetime. I recently bought a brand new and boxed Sharp MD_SD8 player for pocket change. IMHO it´s one of the smallest, slickest and best sounding MD players around.

Aren´t you glad you are not one of tens of thousands users of the 30Gig Micro$oft Zune whose little toys went "lemming" worlwide?

link: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/1...54&from=rss

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I mean is that I noticed all sorts of artifacts when I took a real live commercial purchased CD and made a MD at x4 using LP2. Specifically I noticed the speech of the narrator (it was a children's disk with music) went all hissy. But the result of this and other copied disks sounded lifeless and dull (just playing back on that MD right away). As soon as I coded LP2 using 'puter, or x1 on the D400, no problemo.

I note that at least one of the earlier combo decks is documented as NOT doing x4 at all for LP modes. Could it be that Sony realised that the h/w they had didn't quite cut the mustard?

Cheers

Now that you mention it, I thought the recorded MDs I've acquired that were done via a computer may sound better than the ones I make on a deck. However, I am at this moment listening to an MD @ LP2 that I made earlier today, from a copied CD transferred CD>LP2 (analog) internally on the MXD-D400. It sounds pretty good and listenable, although less so than the original source CD.

AFAIK, the MXD-D400 is the only Sony deck that will copy LP @ 4x.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. I never even thought of using the analog option. Not sure how you do that.

I checked yesterday and there is a small supply of MXD-D400 again on Yahoo Japan. Probably a lot of people didn't bother to auction things over Christmas what with postal delays and suchlike, not to mention having a real life :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. I never even thought of using the analog option. Not sure how you do that.

I checked yesterday and there is a small supply of MXD-D400 again on Yahoo Japan. Probably a lot of people didn't bother to auction things over Christmas what with postal delays and suchlike, not to mention having a real life :)

If you have a copy-protected CD (SCMS) and try to copy it to MD on the MXD-D400 (either SP or LP), the digital copy protection kicks in, you get a "Retry" message, and then the machine proceeds at 1x with an analog copy. I don't know if you can force the unit to do this...I have never done so, it just does it on its own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cute. I had no idea that the documented "retry at x1" behaviour was effected by switching circuits.

I have never to my knowledge held a copy-protected CD in my hands. Back in the days when I made copy-protected floppy disks (and I think someone referred recently to copy-protected video) the usual trick was to put a bad sector somewhere. This didn't matter to the application because it would avoid that sector, but the copy software would barf on it and stop. Isn't that what's happening in your case?

What happens when you copy by pressing the "normal" button? Does it visibly go back and start again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cute. I had no idea that the documented "retry at x1" behaviour was effected by switching circuits.

I have never to my knowledge held a copy-protected CD in my hands. Back in the days when I made copy-protected floppy disks (and I think someone referred recently to copy-protected video) the usual trick was to put a bad sector somewhere. This didn't matter to the application because it would avoid that sector, but the copy software would barf on it and stop. Isn't that what's happening in your case?

What happens when you copy by pressing the "normal" button? Does it visibly go back and start again?

I have a couple of standalone CD copier decks. One of them, an Aiwa, given a commercial music CD, will copy the SCMS protection bit to the CD-R (that is, you can copy the original CD unlimited times but cannot make even one digital copy of the copy). Like the MXD-D400, it will make an internal copy via analog. That is what this is all about on the MXD-D400, as well. When you make a CD>MD copy, at any speed, in any mode, of an SCMS-protected CD, the MD will will have that SCMS bit and will not be copyable (digitally) any further on the usual home, standalone gear.

It's all visible on the 'D400, at normal or high speed. This behavior is fairly common in standalone CD copying decks. I mean the switching to analog. I am not sure if the MXD-D40 has that functionality. I have seen mine simply refuse to internally copy a protected CD.

This would all make me very frustrated, except I have an SCMS stripper that enables me to copy and CD or MD to any other CD or MD, via the stripper and an optical switch. Also, lately I have been burning some CDs via iTunes - although I don't know if they're coming out with SCMS or not. A while back, this whole deal about SCMS was a really big deal in the MD community. Everyone wanted to get around the copy protection so they could, for example, make digital copies of MDs they'd recorded. But you don't hear much about it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This would all make me very frustrated, except I have an SCMS stripper that enables me to copy and CD or MD to any other CD or MD, via the stripper and an optical switch. Also, lately I have been burning some CDs via iTunes - although I don't know if they're coming out with SCMS or not. A while back, this whole deal about SCMS was a really big deal in the MD community. Everyone wanted to get around the copy protection so they could, for example, make digital copies of MDs they'd recorded. But you don't hear much about it now.

I guess my SCMS stripper is:

a. my sound card that ignores it for optical input

b. Nero which copies discs regardless

Never once ran into the problems you describe. Though I always knew I couldn't copy an MD from Toslink to Toslink, and never tried after the first time.

I still don't understand how you can tell that the '400 has switched to analog. This story reminds me of me yelling and screaming (yes!) at Thomson who had produced a VCR which automatically read time off the cable and so coped with all manner of perturbations on the clock. The problem showed up with daylight savings, the machine had no idea how to switch and when, getting terminally confused for several days either side of the changeover, even if it had the right dates. Part of this, it must be admitted was because the local time sources (eg KCTS-9 in Seattle) absolutely had no clue about DST either.

But the real kicker was this: the factory where they developed and tested all this was in Indianapolis. Guess what? In Indianapolis the clocks never change.

So it's hard for me to see what you're talking about because I can't. Sigh.

Happy New Year, anyway :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess my SCMS stripper is:

a. my sound card that ignores it for optical input

b. Nero which copies discs regardless

Never once ran into the problems you describe. Though I always knew I couldn't copy an MD from Toslink to Toslink, and never tried after the first time.

* Exactly so. I do toslink > toslink routinely via the SCMS stripper. Without that, I could not do so. (Although one of my cd recorders, the HHB, is set to ignore and eliminate the scms copy-protect bit.)

I still don't understand how you can tell that the '400 has switched to analog.

* Sony explains this, although less than perfectly clearly, on P.48 of the MXD-D400 manual. Besides that, it is pretty much how such consumer devices work. They will either let you make an analog copy of a digital copy, or no copy at all.

This story reminds me of me yelling and screaming (yes!) at Thomson who had produced a VCR which automatically read time off the cable and so coped with all manner of perturbations on the clock. The problem showed up with daylight savings, the machine had no idea how to switch and when, getting terminally confused for several days either side of the changeover, even if it had the right dates. Part of this, it must be admitted was because the local time sources (eg KCTS-9 in Seattle) absolutely had no clue about DST either.

But the real kicker was this: the factory where they developed and tested all this was in Indianapolis. Guess what? In Indianapolis the clocks never change.

* That was once true in that part of Indiana. However, it is now mandatory that all localities in the United States observe DST.

So it's hard for me to see what you're talking about because I can't. Sigh.

Happy New Year, anyway :)

And the very same to you!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

* Sony explains this, although less than perfectly clearly, on P.48 of the MXD-D400 manual. Besides that, it is pretty much how such consumer devices work. They will either let you make an analog copy of a digital copy, or no copy at all.

I looked at that passage, and it seems like the standard they write in every manual describing SCMS. What I don't see is the part about it switching gears.

On page 29 there is the following (darn, Sony, why you have to protect your document from cut and paste!?):

If the condition of the inserted CD or the deck is poor and retry fails, High-Speed CD-MD Synchro Recording is disabled. In this case "Retry" and "NORMAL" flash in the display and the MD deck automatically starts recording in normal CD-MD synchro Recording. Note the monitoring of the recorded signal is not possible when this occurs.

My inference from this is (was) that it switches speed from x4 to x1, not that it switches from digital to analogue. But maybe there's more information somewhere that I missed implying the switch to analogue. An interesting test would be to see what happens when you insert a CD known to be protected and try to copy at x1?

Furthermore, I can imagine (easily) that a copy via analogue cables is possible if you hook analogue out to analogue in - but you used the word "internal" so I don't think you are suggesting that. I am nervous about doing that anyway as it sounds like the sort of thing that might blow up - and seems to defeat the whole idea of keeping sound digital which avoids what they warn happening with proximity to TV or other source of interference (p. 43).

Stephen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked at that passage, and it seems like the standard they write in every manual describing SCMS. What I don't see is the part about it switching gears.

On page 29 there is the following (darn, Sony, why you have to protect your document from cut and paste!?):

My inference from this is (was) that it switches speed from x4 to x1, not that it switches from digital to analogue. But maybe there's more information somewhere that I missed implying the switch to analogue. An interesting test would be to see what happens when you insert a CD known to be protected and try to copy at x1?

Furthermore, I can imagine (easily) that a copy via analogue cables is possible if you hook analogue out to analogue in - but you used the word "internal" so I don't think you are suggesting that. I am nervous about doing that anyway as it sounds like the sort of thing that might blow up - and seems to defeat the whole idea of keeping sound digital which avoids what they warn happening with proximity to TV or other source of interference (p. 43).

Stephen

The real and unstated meaning is that the MXD-D400, like all other Sony MD decks, obeys all SCMS restrictions. I think it's reasonable to conclude that the copying must be in analog mode. It's kind of unfortunate. If the unit did not strictly obey SCMS, perhaps Sony could have sold thousands and thousands of them in North America and the fate of Minidisc would have been quite different. ;-)

In any case and although I have done it before, I repeated this procedure. Internally. For a CD, I used a copy-protected (SCMS) CD that I had burned on my Aiwa CD-R. When I tried to copy at 1x, I got the flashing "Retry" message, and then copying began at 1x.

Next, I tried the same procedure, using the same protected CD and the same MD, on my MXD-D40, which is the MXD-D400's immediate predecessor. In this case, the unit would not copy the CD at all. Instead, I received message C41 Cannot Copy.

So, where the MXD-D40 will not copy a protected CD at all, at least the MXD-D400 will do so in analog. Stephen, I thought you might find the following passage, from my Aiwa CD-R's Ops Manual, interesting and relevant, as I believe the MXD-D400 acts the same way. The passage refers to dubbing only (internal recording):

"If the original disc being dubbed is a digital copy or if it contains copy-prohibit signals, the unit will automatically make a copy with real-time speed in analog mode because of SCMS."

If you'd like to experiment with an SCMS-protected CD, let me know if you'd like me to send you one, what you like to listen to, and where to send it. No charge! Then you can see for yourself.

Regards,

Bruce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For sfbp:

I also own an HHB CDR-850 pro CD recorder, and have since 2001, and also obtained a Sony Professional MDS-E10 MD deck in 2004 as well, and both do not recognize SCMS. That was the main reason why I bought them, to defeat SCMS, and then Sony found out that they were selling more pro decks (without SCMS) than home decks (SCMS-equipped), and promptly discontinued it and it's sister unit the E12. Pro decks now these days are getting harder and harder to find, even the pro CD recorders and 1-1 CD/DVD duplicators (like the ones from Microboards such as my QD-DVD copier) are getting harder and harder to find, even from MiniDisco, Guitar Center or Musician's Friend. Is this because of the RIAA/MPAA dictatorship and their draconian-ways that they practice in preventing "piracy"?

Edited by BIGHMW
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I instead think it's because everyone including the record companies know all you need is a computer to make an image copy of a disk.

I refused to buy into a "CD writing machine" precisely because what is written is sort of arbitrary and the standard is likely to be with the vast, unwashed, cheap majority who buy a 'puter and then figure out they can make disks.

Vista, I dunno. Hang on to your XP for now :)

If some copyright police ever descend on Ahead Software's offices, people might start spreading "illegal" old versions of Nero around, heheh. But not once Vista takes over, if it ever does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...