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bluecrab

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I am considering adding an external DAC to my system. One use of the DAC might be to attach it to my MXD-D400, which I no longer use as an input source because it doesn't sound as good to me as my JA333ES. This is to be expected, but there are times when it would be convenient for me to play MDs (and CDs) via the 400.

So I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with MD to external DAC. My goal here is not to make the 400's output sound like a CD, just to make it sound -better- . I think the rest of the system; that is, the amp and speakers, are good enough that I'd notice a sound upgrade if it were there.

For those who are interested in such things, I am leaning toward the Valab NOS DAC, a unit which in itself is a bit of a curiosity.

Any general comments about an external DAC also welcome. I have never had one or even heard one.

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Why not buy a new (used) amp with optical in?

For example this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Onkyo-TX-SR605-Receiver-/180634429177

This is exactly the model I bought but there are countless others, you can look through ebay and see what features you desire overall.

Probably set you back a lot less than a fancy custom DAC, and it works beautifully with my 400

Stephen

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Why not buy a new (used) amp with optical in?

For example this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Onkyo-TX-SR605-Receiver-/180634429177

This is exactly the model I bought but there are countless others, you can look through ebay and see what features you desire overall.

Probably set you back a lot less than a fancy custom DAC, and it works beautifully with my 400

Stephen

Not a bad idea, but then I would not only have to part ways with my amp - a NAD C352 - but also replace it with something that has features I will never use, as I am pretty much limited to two-channel stereo in this particular situation. It is good to know, though, that your switching from the 400's DAC to the Onkyo's DAC was an improvement. I tried a similar thing on a different setup...I went Opt. out JB940 to Opt. in Cambridge Audio 540R v3 (receiver), but I didn't notice much of a difference.

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I don't use more than the two sound channels currently (this may change), and I still think this amp is not overkill. What's nice is it also has lots of video connectors as well as HDMI. The current crop have all removed most things except HDMI, which is a real pain, due to increasing DRM efforts. Also, HDMI is usually a poor second qualitywise.

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I don't use more than the two sound channels currently (this may change), and I still think this amp is not overkill. What's nice is it also has lots of video connectors as well as HDMI. The current crop have all removed most things except HDMI, which is a real pain, due to increasing DRM efforts. Also, HDMI is usually a poor second qualitywise.

Well, I did try going from an older CD changer to the Cambridge Audio receiver via opt. out and that was nice, a noticeable improvement (as opposed to analog out from the changer) and will probably add extra years of service for the changer - a 6-CD Onkyo that I am fond of, anyway. But the NAD C352 is staying put, analog inputs and all. Thanks for the suggestion, it certainly was helpful for the relatively ancient Onkyo changer.

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Well....

As you say, the JA333ES would make a good DAC (or your JB940 I suspect).

I know from bitter experience that the analog output on the D400 is not great. Fine for regular CD's and SP minidiscs, but as soon as fighting the battle of a recording whose noise got compressed, then the optical seems to make a difference. Sony knew this, one suspects, since they didn't allow pressing "record" with no MD to act as A->D/D->A as it does on many more lowly units like the 520 for example. This in turn is probably due to the way the signal paths have to take account of the CD player, everything ends up getting switched and I suspect the analog side is consequently noisier. (I sound like I know what I am talking about, but I really don't have more than a passing acquaintance with the innards).

I was thinking your ES model doesn't have LP - but it does.

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  • 4 weeks later...

My friend is running the Cambridge Audio DacMagic in his systems and ti sounds great...especially for the money.

sfpb; no one is saying that Onkyo is low-fi. Actaully, for the money, Onkyo is great equipment. But it sounds to me that bluecrab is a 2 channel guy so a multi-channel receiver may be overkill. A piece of audio equipment is just a means to an end, a tool if you will. The Onkyo would have features that bluecrab would probably never use. No sense making things more complicated than they need to be. What's the old plumbers saying; "the fancyier the plumbing, the easier it is to stop it up".

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Actaully, for the money, Onkyo is great equipment.

$250?

I (of course) use it in 2 channel mode. It happens to give me good sound on DVD as well as FM and satellite radio, but that's by the by.

We agree that it's not worth spending money on high-end MD whose main attribute is a great DAC, I think. But this particular unit got a lot of praise when it first came out.

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The NAD stays where it is. Its sole function - and what it really was built to do - is to take a 2-channel analog input signal and make it sound good. This it does quite well enough for me. However, there are sources connected to it that I don't use for playback because they just don't cut it as well as other sources: MDS-JA333ES vs. MXD-D400, for example. My thinking was that an X-DAC would enable the 'D400 to be more suitable for playback. Instead of the X-DAC, though, I bought an MDS-JA20ES off Ebay. I thought the JA20ES would make a nice backup should another deck fail, but instead I wound up making it part of another system, which leads us to:

Downstairs in my basement. There I -do- have an A/V receiver, a Cambridge Audio 540V R3. And it is there that I require > 2-channel sound, although that applies only to audio...I rarely use the Video features of the CA receiver. That's where the JA20ES lives, along with an MDS-JB940, a Marantz single-CD player (5003 or something like that), and a Sony CDP-CA70ES changer. Now, the Cambridge Audio is a fine specimen of an A/V receiver, and not one excessively overburdened with features I never will use. What it seems to like to do best is to take analog input from the devices I just mentioned, run that input through its own DSP, and spit out a pretty-good-sounding result over 5 channels (5.1, really). I did try the CA's own digital input on an older Onkyo CD changer, and that made a difference. However, IMO the same cannot be said when the better MD/CD units get their internal DACs bypassed and are plugged in to the CA's opt. in. In short, I am happy the way things are. I may yet get an outboard DAC for the NAD-based system. I'm kind of entranced by a NOS DAC that's around, but in any case the JA20ES and a new center channel speaker for the basement system used up the DAC funds, so it'd have to wait, anyway.

The Cambridge Audio 540V R3, like SFBP's Onkyo, is a nice piece of work. I can't speak for the Onkyo, but the NAD, despite its lack of digital input, picks up the CA, puts it in its pocket, and walks away with it, if I may indulge in a small amount of hyperbole. All in all, I have finally reached a place where my current setups don't leave me wishing for more (except I would like bigger speakers in the "Upstairs" [NAD] system. Nowhere to fit them, though.

Now if I could just find a near-mint CDP-XA55ES...

Happy listening to everyone!

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The Cambridge Audio 540V R3, like SFBP's Onkyo, is a nice piece of work. I can't speak for the Onkyo, but the NAD, despite its lack of digital input, picks up the CA, puts it in its pocket, and walks away with it

The Onkyo is a pretty heavy piece of equipment. It looks and sounds very solid. Even if I didn't need it to handle video, I would still be delighted with the sound.

Granted, I cannot compare with your Cambridge. But it drives my KEF Chorales as well as ever. They are a *very* inefficient speaker that need lotsa power. A lot better than the Kenwood (analog in only) that I had for the previous 13 years. And it (Kenwood) was decent. I still use it for phono input when I need to convert LP's.

I do think there is some advantage to having DAC and power amp in the same unit, though I am sure the real buffs will say this is nonsense.

Stephen

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The Onkyo is a pretty heavy piece of equipment. It looks and sounds very solid. Even if I didn't need it to handle video, I would still be delighted with the sound.

Granted, I cannot compare with your Cambridge. But it drives my KEF Chorales as well as ever. They are a *very* inefficient speaker that need lotsa power. A lot better than the Kenwood (analog in only) that I had for the previous 13 years. And it (Kenwood) was decent. I still use it for phono input when I need to convert LP's.

I do think there is some advantage to having DAC and power amp in the same unit, though I am sure the real buffs will say this is nonsense.

Stephen

First I am going to say something about MD, because this is after all an MD space and not a general audio one.

So. No matter what speaker/amp combo I use or have used, both the MDS-JB940 and MDS-JA20ES sound very good. Might even possibly give a slight advantage to the 940 - not sure yet. I think that no matter what we're running MD through it is marvel of audio engineering, especially when you consider that really, MD was supposed to take the place of analog cassette, not CD. IMO, MD far exceeds cassette.

Your KEF's seem to be a highly regarded vintage speaker. With your Onkyo, I would expect them to have plenty of "presence." Are you using a sub with them? I would also expect that the Onkyo would be a good match for MD. Mine would even toggle between "MD" and "TAPE" in its display - the Cambridge doesn't toggle, but it does display "TAPE/MD." No surprise, really, as Cambridge is UK-based and I am pretty sure MD was much better received there than in the US. Couple of years ago, I was visiting a friend in Devon, who had a nice kit put together, and when I mentioned MD to him, he was well aware of what I was talking about. Not so much that response in the US :-(

That's the MD part of my reply. Stop here, all ye who don't want to read about non-MD issues (albeit related).

I did have an entry-level Onkyo receiver, TX-SR302. I bought it as a refurb direct from Onkyo and it never gave me a moment's trouble, nor did it have a problem with my own inefficient speakers, Pioneer S-DF3-K. I had been curious, though, about the Cambridge for some time and when I got a decent deal on one, I bit. I also considered a higher-level Onkyo such as you have, but was just too intrigued by the CA.

Soon after the CA's arrival, I went from an Infinity Alpha center to a BIC FH6-LCR. The BIC is more efficient (and louder) than the Infinity and it just buries the Pioneers. So I have ordered a couple of BIC FH-65B's for mains. They too should be efficient and loud and a better match for the BIC center. I expect them to arrive this week.

Bruce

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No sub alas, though I never felt the need for one. Probably will do the surround sound thing at some point in the new house. At this point I will be torn as to what to do with the KEF's. I was most amazed to read of someone who bought them about 5 years ago, junking their high end speakers as a result.

The onkyo had some problems to do with mode switching as this particular one was the first that "did" HDMI properly. But I managed to get the updates (somehow!) and all is well. Problems that only affected video, in any event.

Stephen

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