Selling off sony for nokia sound quality!

[giki]

Hi Ascariss,regarding the whinging about nokia being better than a Sony player.i reckon there is probably something wrong with her choice cause if you cant differentiate between a ferrari and a ford,they are all the same.No V8 Ford is ever gonna beat a V8 Ferrari.Therefore no amount of audiophile headphones can improve the sound if a nokia cause they would sound much better with a Sony hdd player.I happened to test 192 kbps mp3s direct from cd on my W850i and HD5 and the hd5 blows the shit out of the phone.the smoothness and fidelity is just not there and even the N91, the phone probably used by --malice,sounds punchy but nowhere near the hd5.tell her to fix her hearing instead of the mp3 player cause my tests were done using a pair of Bose triports and the koss plugs to test their range over expensive and affordable models and the jurys clear on this one.tell her/him to try hi-md at 292 sp and then see if her nokia sounds better!!!!!

Cheers Giki

[djmalice]

Hi Giki,

people are forgetting sound quality is subjective. Yeah solid fact presents far greater frequency responses from any Sony product however better specs doesnt mean better performance for everybody.

for example in music production a hell of a lot of producers purposely use old equipment which is substandard compared to the latest equipment however people love the warm sound of the older equipment.

And to the moderator ascariss, how unfortunate you can't have a debate with somebody despite being a moderator though anybody who uses forums knows this tends to be norm with overeager moderators.

And thank you to Giki for technically and eloquently proving my opinion wrong, though as i said it is a subjective subject matter.

and also can i add Sony is barely the 'ferarri' of audiophile equipment.

And it would be rather interesting to see the technical audio data for Nokia N91 as we're all (including myself) assuming that it is technically inferior to Sony mp3 products.

[JustAnUnCoolCat]

Good points mentioned by all, and yes.. when it comes to audio quality as reproduced, it's a highly subjective thing

God knows, if you took the words and conclusions of the highly-revered reviews of 'AP' kit in mags such as What Hi-Fi as being the gospel absolute pinnacle of 'what is, what shall be, anything less is garbage', you'd find yourself in a spiralling debt situation trying to achieve such perfection

Let's face it, in reality, anything playing lossy audio is never gonna be comparable in any shape or form to listening to the same audio at source from a true original mastering unless the source and lossy audio comparisions are 1:1 (aka comparing an MP3 original such as a promo from a band on xxx reference kit vs yyyy lossy audio player.. and accounting for lots of miscellaneous and lots of critical factors that sep the two audition sources).

So all lossy audio playback units are flawed by default (not that you'd believe that if you happen to be a huge fan of the AP mags.. of which the one i mentioned previously is definately an iPod slave, where they virtually treat it as the perfection of portable decks).

In my travels, doing lots of remastering and restoration of audio (meaning, in effect, i aint a slave to the 'if it aint digital at source, it sucks' mentality - whatever works, works for me), it's plainly obvious that many embedded audio player implements are fundamently 'added value' add-ons giving extra features to units which fundamentally aint designed to be audio decks by main intent.

So when you consider that, and notably listening to audio decoder/player implements in DVD players stands out particularly, it's a total mixed bag what you are going to get.

I happen to like the lossy audio decode/handling implements in Sony kit, kinda feels fairly neutral enough when it's used without EQ back to an AP grade amp and HQ commercial installation speaker setups (the ones in question, speakers i mean, are equally usable in a studio let alone for their main use, in halls etc and walk all over most mega-bucks shopping mall/centre drivers) using the analogue line-out setting/connector. Likewise, whilst it's imperfect (as always, aint a perfect performer out there.. that's a definate), the phones out on a Sony usually makes a nice balance between AP desires and portably practical performance when listened via half-decent phones.

Now the exception to the 'nice sound on a Sony', that sticks out in my mind, is the W800 series phones - maybe the owners love em, but to me, the output sounds a tad like the audio output of a lossy DAP from about two gens ago.

That said, in fairness, the phones you use with a W800 series are not exactly brill reference stuff, so possibly the audio player implement on that series may be better if you can work in a decent pair of phones

But, and i really dont wish to sit down and detail the various phones w/audio players i have used and listened to (i have a friend who works in a service centre, so i often get to listen to examples of phones), but i definately came to the conclusion that it's a simialr mixed bag to say DVD players and their lossy audio player modes.

Usually using their stock cans, they stink big time, unless for some reason they come with OEM examples of the better walkman type buds or phones.

Personally, i reckon you just gotta take audio players on phones for what they are, an added-value feature - it's a bit much to expect a thrown-in 'taking advantage of a situation' DVD players's MP3 decoder/player to sound even close to a good well-developed straight PC-implemented mp3 decoder/player using a half-decent sound card and comparable speakers. And likewise, i consider that it's really not fair to expect a phone's audio player implement to match the performance of a dedicated 'by design' purpose built audio player.

So the 'they stink' (using the typical crap phones bundled) conclusion i have of phone based audio players, is a purely perception based thing with a touch of 'omigod, could they be any cruder.. or more fundamentally basic' amazement over the UI and the in-player operating modes (feels very 1st gen DAP to me usually) - same goes for the average lossy DAP mode of DVD units.

So if you aint expecting miracles, a phone's DAP may be find - likewise, you may be happy with the performance when you weigh up portable and practical combined facility in what is a compromised affair in usually unfavourable listening environments.

But i really long (many moons ago, too many to recall) realised that the add-feature implents of audio player functions on devices not initially destined to be mainly audio players are chalk-n-cheese vs dedicated units.

That could easily be a different balance, in practise, but at the mo.. they are like woman and men.., they co-exist.. but often tackle things with a diff philosophy and purpose.

I'd also question, seriously, whether 'AP' phones are a good mix with any phone or add-feature audio player device.

In many cases, dumping a pair of AP-grade phones (and remember, the AP grade is again a perception thing) on such a device can a be killer or reveal some suprises..

They can often show up some serious deficiences in a unit, as many added-feature audio players and the audio circuitry on the device they are implemented on, is tailored or optimised to suit the intended type of phones that will be supplied.

And given the environment where many phones are used, it's almost certainly 'buds' (conventional or canal type) used by choice and for the most part (i know there are exceptions to the general norm, some very HQ buds... but megapricey too) i'd hardly put the type into the AP phones/drivers category.. as they are, by design, a serious compromise by design.

Ramming a pair of good AP speakers onto a bedroom mini-hifi system is often a dissapointment, likewise when you substitute a pair of monitors instead.. as they are often cheaper marginally, as you soon realise that why you aint getting the performance you expect is because the amp has been worked to suit the intended driver units.. not your preferred mega-bucks super-duper replacements.

Much the same can be said for AP phones really on a mobile phone's stereo audio output.

Also, given that many AP grade phones really need a quite substantial drive to make em come to life .. not big milliwattage output... but a pretty well balanced and not-strung-out amp at least that operating well inside it's capability, i wonder just how well a pair of good cans would fairly reproduce the output....

Sure, there is the inline phones amp option, if needed - but given the output of a phone's stereo port is often erm, not clean and sterile/neutral noise-wise, it feels a bit like a receipe for disspointment to go that route. Surely, noone really whacks a hi-gain phones amp onto an inherently noisy pre-amped output do they.. - outside of the AP world i mean..??

For sure, given you have the socket and adaptors to suit, whack a good wide response pair of neutral high SPL phones onto the phones out of a DVD or audio player on a phone, and you often notice a heck of a lot of unwanted crap coming to life that your average buds supplied never show up. To add, then, a nice meaty phone amp.. is kinda audio suicide unless it's got NR function built in (but remember.. the NR function in such amps.. is inherently destructive on some level anyway).

Hell, if the person who started the whole 'My sony sucks vs my phone's audio player' wants to consider his phone to be the dogs wotsits/male-dangly-bits of the portable audio world.. fair enough, but if there was a real 'scream from the top of a hill' reason to condemn a Sony by comparison - then there is such a thing as passing your comments and critique to Sony maybe... not the forum, after all.., we aint gonna be able to fix any issues that may be the case re the Sony decks themselves

*feels the need to go soak the red-hot and smoking virtual paws*

'Tom Kat'

[djmalice]

Hi Tom,

Superb reply, shame the moderator wasnt eloquent or informed enough to reply like you.

There was no nokia vs sony debate at all, all i merely said was that i dont rate the quality of my sony mp3 walkman at all and that i think my nokia phone provides just as good sound. The nokia vs sony thing was started up by the moderator who like all geeks tried to mock my opinion since he is a mod and therefore knows all.

My point was mainly that people have a strange assumption that because it says Sony it must be good, fact is Sony are far from the best in most of what they do- especially audio equipment.

Though my opinion did cost me a warning which got me shivering in my boots

cheers Tom