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Sony versus Apple vs. Zune...my personal story

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lamewing

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Okay, I will keep this short. Oh, hello from Texas! EDIT: This isn't very short after all!!!

This weekend I went temporaritly insane (since I completely paid off my credit card) and decided to spend the entire weekend comparing DAP units. I bought at Best Buy (easy return policy and many stores to make returns...so I don't bring them all back to the same store) the following: iPod touch, iPod Classic 160GB, iPod nano, and a Zune. In addition I bought a new NWZ unit from Frys. Why? Because I was tired of driving around trying to listen to all the different players to determine sound quality. That was a worthless attempt as each store had a different sound level and only the Zune had any music loaded on the player.

Here is a VERY short comparison of the units:

1. The iPod classic is built like a tank. It feels as sturdy as my old NW-HD5. Too bad the back is still shiny and ready to be scratched up! The noise floor is dead silent, no hiss at all. The standard Apple iPod restrictions apply. The new UI is very pretty, but too slow and jittery for anyone who is even slightly anal-retentive. Battery life at 37 hours on a charge.

2. The iPod touch is solidly built and seems well designed. It is a slick looking device, but I cannot get used to the lack of tactile response. No external volume control is a downer. Its battery life was as advertise, around 22 hours. The BIG PROBLEM is that this device produces (and I tested another unit too) HORRIBLE HISS. When the volume is all the way up (nothing playing) the hiss sounds like a snake! The Classic didn't show this problem.

3. The Nano basically is a small, flash based classic. I have dropped it four times ( to the carpet, luckily) with no damage. It sounds just like the classic and the UI is faster since it doesn't need to access a HD. NO HISS. The square shape makes it hard to hold with small stubby fingers.

4. The Zune is big and bulky compared to the other units...or so it seems. It is actually only a few mm thincker than the 160 classic and only a few mm longer then said classic. It shares the same dimensions as the Touch, except about 1.5 times thicker. I think the large, horizontal screen makes it seem larger than it really is. No scroll wheel (no loss),but instead solidly constructed buttons. It is feels as sturdy as the Classic, but the silky, rubberized body gives it a very secure feeling in your hand. The rubberized body doesn't collect dirt like a silicon skin does. NO HISS at all. I have acutally used the Zune "squirting" ability - what a name - in my Japanese class to share songs. Nice idea which needs better implementation. NO UNICODE SUPPORT WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS HACKS.

5. The Sony is small (too small) at 2GB. Also, this is the 6xx series so it is physically smaller than the A8xx series I played with in Japan, so I am not too worried. The horizontal screen gives the unit a much better feeling in the hand than the nano; much more secure. I also like the physical buttons on the sony. The UI is workable, but a bit dated. I detected little to no HISS.

In the end...

1.I am taking back the Touch because the HISS is just terrible. 3 differnt buds (apple buds, zune buds, senheiser buds) and it was still there.

2.The classic is going back because there is something about the sound it produces that actually HURTS my ears. I had the same problem with the 600 series HiMD unit. No idea what the problem is. Maybe the highs are off, but it actually gives me a headache.

3. The nano is going back as I am afraid it will fly from my hands some day. The sound quality is the same as the classic....same headache. Grrrr.

I am left choosing between the higher capacity Zune or the flash-based Walkman. Both sounded wonderful. I think the Sony might sound a little "wider" for lack of a better term. It feels like the music is outside my head moreso than when listening to the Zune. It is a close comparision and I would be happy with either. The Sony no longer relies on SSCP and after using the Zune software I could easily use WMP 11.

I did get try out the Zune pass and so far I am very pleased. This is a great way to check out new (and old) music before buying a CD. It beats the iTunes "listen to 30 seconds of a song" idea. I have found several songs that are almost all silence during that 30 second clip!!! Since the Sony now uses WMP 11, I ASSUME that I can now use something like Napster, Yahoo!, etc if I choose the Sony over the Zune.

What did I learn? That Apple's DAPs aren't for me, even though I do use iTunes to buy music from iTunes Japan. More hoops to jump through to get that music on anther player, but it is cheaper than importing a CD and finding out the CD was a dud. The Sony is a nice unit, but the lack of storage is grating. No more high-capacity units from Sony I guess??? I can replace the HD in Zune with a 100GB HD for more storage later too.

I don't want to give up on Sony's DAPs, but nothing has really interested me since Sony backtraced with its HD-based DAPs after the cancellation of the HD5. What happened to the vertical AND horizontal orientation? What happened to the removeable battery? What happened to the solid METAL body? What happened to the standard mini-usb jack? Well, I can live with the WMP port as it allows for nice accessories. I guess I am also concerned about the Zune as it has been almost a year and MS has still not added unicode support in a firmware update, even though the player is 100% capable of displaying kana, kanji, hangul and chinese...it is only FOUR font files...jeez.

Tough decision. Thanks for "listening"

Edited by lamewing
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5. The Sony is small (too small) at 2GB. Also, this is the 6xx series so it is physically smaller than the A8xx series I played with in Japan, so I am not too worried. The horizontal screen gives the unit a much better feeling in the hand than the nano; much more secure. I also like the physical buttons on the sony. The UI is workable, but a bit dated. I detected little to no HISS.

I am left choosing between the higher capacity Zune or the flash-based Walkman. Both sounded wonderful. I think the Sony might sound a little "wider" for lack of a better term. It feels like the music is outside my head moreso than when listening to the Zune. It is a close comparision and I would be happy with either. The Sony no longer relies on SSCP and after using the Zune software I could easily use WMP 11.

I did get try out the Zune pass and so far I am very pleased. This is a great way to check out new (and old) music before buying a CD. It beats the iTunes "listen to 30 seconds of a song" idea. I have found several songs that are almost all silence during that 30 second clip!!! Since the Sony now uses WMP 11, I ASSUME that I can now use something like Napster, Yahoo!, etc if I choose the Sony over the Zune.

I don't want to give up on Sony's DAPs, but nothing has really interested me since Sony backtraced with its HD-based DAPs after the cancellation of the HD5. What happened to the vertical AND horizontal orientation? What happened to the removeable battery? What happened to the solid METAL body? What happened to the standard mini-usb jack? Well, I can live with the WMP port as it allows for nice accessories. I guess I am also concerned about the Zune as it has been almost a year and MS has still not added unicode support in a firmware update, even though the player is 100% capable of displaying kana, kanji, hangul and chinese...it is only FOUR font files...jeez.

Tough decision. Thanks for "listening"

Hey lamewing,

Thanks for the review of all these players. It was quite an interesting read! :)

The sony DAPs have a capacity of up to 8GB now. And yes, it does work with Napster/Yahoo and the like. The packaging of my NWZ-A818 came with a (14day? i forgot) trial to napster. Basically, with the new walkmans, if it's playsforsure compatible, it will work on the player.

http://www.playsforsure.com/AdvancedSearch...nel&index=0

and from wikipedia:

Content Providers that offer PlaysForSure-certified audio

AOL MusicNow

Directsong

FYE

Musicmatch Jukebox

Napster

PassAlong

MTV URGE

Wal-Mart Music Downloads

Ruckus Network

Yahoo Music

Real Rhapsody

weird thing i found out a while back was that the DRM that the Zune uses ISNT playsforsure. It's yet another proprietary DRM format. I would have thought that microsoft would have stuck with one DRM format, instead of implementing two. I guess they wanted to keep Zune users locked into the Zune music store or something..

As for the WM-Port, i think [hopefully] sony keeps with that standard, so they will have just one standardized connector and make universal accessories for their players, instead of having different ones for different models just because of different connectors.

Edited by aznbro85
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Thanks for your much valued input lamewing.

I am wondering how did you assess hiss levels? Did you crank up volume w/o any music playing? Which earphones did you use?

As for nano 3g, I think that Apple pushed to hard with a mere 6.5mm shell and the larger screen / clickwheel position. I can barely hold the thing w/o cramping.

As far as the Sony S6 is concerned I would think that the A8 has superior sq. SNR on Nano 3 and the "older" A80x are almost identical.

Edited by ceres
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weird thing i found out a while back was that the DRM that the Zune uses ISNT playsforsure. It's yet another proprietary DRM format. I would have thought that microsoft would have stuck with one DRM format, instead of implementing two. I guess they wanted to keep Zune users locked into the Zune music store or something..

Weird part is that I can download songs via Zune pass, yet WMP 11 can see and play them. Some folks have said that the Zune Pass songs will then load on the creative players....no way to test this.

Joe

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Thanks for your much valued input lamewing.

I am wondering how did you assess hiss levels? Did you crank up volume w/o any music playing? Which earphones did you use?

As for nano 3g, I think that Apple pushed to hard with a mere 6.5mm shell and the larger screen / clickwheel position. I can barely hold the thing w/o cramping.

As far as the Sony S6 is concerned I would think that the A8 has superior sq. SNR on Nano 3 and the "older" A80x are almost identical.

I am sorry that my quick review was not very professional or very systematic, but I had some free time at lunch and wanted to jot down my thoughts....:)

I stood in my batheroom at 1am (true) and turned the volume up to max with nothing playing using the apple earbuds, zune earbuds, and some senheiser earbuds. All of them registered a very LOUD HISS. I have heard some white noise on some of the Sony flash-bashed units, but nothing like this at all. The Nano, classic and Zune were hiss free.

I am going to order a Cowon D2 and the Sony A818 tonight and try them both out. Both are great players. I wish the A818 came in indigo like the A808 in Japan!!!

I would just be happy with a Sony HD5 at this point. I actually bought 5 of them at Fry's two years ago at clearance and sold them off online for a small profit. I wish I had kept two of them!!!!

Joe

Edited by lamewing
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Weird part is that I can download songs via Zune pass, yet WMP 11 can see and play them. Some folks have said that the Zune Pass songs will then load on the creative players....no way to test this.

Joe

Hey Joe,

Very interesting :) I guess Microsoft decided it was smart to let the new zunes (or via a firmware upgrade) to be able to use the playsforsure DRM. And vice-versa probably? It would make sense since it's their own format too, hehe

Anyway, thanks again for the interesting 'mini' review/comparison :)

Eric

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Hey Joe,

Very interesting :) I guess Microsoft decided it was smart to let the new zunes (or via a firmware upgrade) to be able to use the playsforsure DRM. And vice-versa probably? It would make sense since it's their own format too, hehe

Anyway, thanks again for the interesting 'mini' review/comparison :)

Eric

Eric,

I don't think the Zune can use any other DRMed music. What I meant was that supposedly the creative can play the zune pass music. I am curious if the Sony A818 can do so. I guess I will know in a week or so. No matter the outcome, this music "rental" idea is not half bad, especially if you are in the mood to experiment with many different genres....for the price of a single CD. I wish iTunes would adopt this option and allow a "rental" option as well as a purchase option. THAT would be wonderful as I could test out all sorts of music on the japanese iTunes (and the UK as well). Probably a pipe dream though.

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Eric,

I don't think the Zune can use any other DRMed music. What I meant was that supposedly the creative can play the zune pass music. I am curious if the Sony A818 can do so. I guess I will know in a week or so. No matter the outcome, this music "rental" idea is not half bad, especially if you are in the mood to experiment with many different genres....for the price of a single CD. I wish iTunes would adopt this option and allow a "rental" option as well as a purchase option. THAT would be wonderful as I could test out all sorts of music on the japanese iTunes (and the UK as well). Probably a pipe dream though.

regarding iTunes UK and Japan, probably a pipe dream indeed. My friend was anticipating Utada Hikaru's newest single when it came out sometime in late august, and he was thinking he could nab it off from iTunes USA, or somehow get it from itunes japan using his american account... no such luck, lol..

For music rentals, napster to go is a viable option, as is yahoo music unlimited, i think. I haven't brushed up on my online music download service info, as I am a CD ripper ~_~

But it will be interesting whether the Zune pass music will work on the A818 or not... keep us posted! :)

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regarding iTunes UK and Japan, probably a pipe dream indeed. My friend was anticipating Utada Hikaru's newest single when it came out sometime in late august, and he was thinking he could nab it off from iTunes USA, or somehow get it from itunes japan using his american account... no such luck, lol..

For music rentals, napster to go is a viable option, as is yahoo music unlimited, i think. I haven't brushed up on my online music download service info, as I am a CD ripper ~_~

But it will be interesting whether the Zune pass music will work on the A818 or not... keep us posted! :)

The rental part is a pipe dream, buying off another country's iTunes is a snap. Just set up an account with the other country by using some address in that country...a friend, a university, a business, etc....as well as a phone number. Heck, you can use Apple's phone number in that country!

You cannot use a credit card unless it has a billing address in that country, BUT you CAN use an iTunes gift card. I used to get them from ebay and now I have some friends that will help me out. They email me the gift card number, I enter it in iTunes and poof, instant purchases. Many of the newer, more expensive purchases are iTunes Plus (256kbps AAC, no DRM) and play on anything that takes AAC.

If your friend needs help setting up an account in the U.S. have him contact me. I can also buy the cards and email him the numbers at cost. If he can cover the paypal fees ($1.00 or $2.00) then I would be glad to help.

Joe

I still have the Zune and the iPod classic and I let them do a shoot out last night by playing a single song over and over again at factory defaults. Wow, the Zune (14 hours estimated battery life) is almost empty after 10 hours and the iPod barely shows any battery use!!! This might push me towards the Sony as it has better battery life.

Edited by lamewing
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woa this is very impressive, having all these audio players gathered in one place! Personally i wont stick with any of the players because IMO sony's A800/ A810 series would be a better choice.

PS i just saw 3 HD5s on ebay earlier, all starting at a resonable price. Search for "sony mp3 players" and they will probably come out on the last page.

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woa this is very impressive, having all these audio players gathered in one place! Personally i wont stick with any of the players because IMO sony's A800/ A810 series would be a better choice.

PS i just saw 3 HD5s on ebay earlier, all starting at a resonable price. Search for "sony mp3 players" and they will probably come out on the last page.

Thanks for the suggestion on how to do that search. I never expected to see so many lazy sellers who all listed as sony mp3 player...wow.

In regards to your suggestion of players. I think you are pretty much on target. I have returned the Touch and Nano today. The return at Best Buy was completely painless, but the return at the Apple store really reminds me why I don't like to shop there. The sales guy was appalled that I would choose to return such a "fine product". He told me that there would be a restocking fee (none at Best Buy) for the return and I said that there is no reason to charge me $20.00 when it was unused, merely opened. He finally (1 hour of waiting) agreed to this but made sure to tell me that, "next I will have to follow the rules and that I am not special" I kid you not!!! Grrrr.

So now I have the iPod Classic and the Zune. The Zune is nice, but the battery life is just unacceptable these days. The Classic gets 40 hours of battery life, but the sound quality isn't up to par and the UI is just downright SLOW and JITTERY, so that is going back tomorrow.

So it is up to a Cowon D2 or the Sony A818 to fullfill my needs, I guess. I would be happy with a Cowon X5L or a Sony HD5, but they are hard to find. I will look at ebay some more.

The hardest part of this decision is that neither of these units are sold locally. I am not driving 55 miles to Dallas (just say not to Dallas traffic) just to visit the Sony Store. I guess I should have bought the A808 in Tokyo while on vacation.

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It is official. I took the ipod classic back today and mailed the zune back to amazon. On a hunch, I stopped at Fry's and sure enough they had the B-series and the A818 in stock. Got one of each. Good to go now. I cannot believe the difference in sound quality!!! Lesson learned.

Edit: This player will indeed play rented music on the Zune pass. The only catch is that the DRM confirmation info that is downloaded with the files is only good for two or three transfers. After that when you transfer the files the zune software will update the info and transfer to the Zune, but this doesn't work when you transfer to the Sony via WMP 11.

So it seems the only "lock" MS put on the Zune Marketplace and Zune Pass has to do with the renewal of the DRM right confirmation. Pretty lame. Nonetheless, using the Zune really got me interested in using a music rental idea. I have seen the list of choices, but does anyone have expereince with using these other services? Any of them provide Jpop, Kpop, and Cpop options? Thakns.

Edited by lamewing
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It is official. I took the ipod classic back today and mailed the zune back to amazon. On a hunch, I stopped at Fry's and sure enough they had the B-series and the A818 in stock. Got one of each. Good to go now. I cannot believe the difference in sound quality!!! Lesson learned.

Edit: This player will indeed play rented music on the Zune pass. The only catch is that the DRM confirmation info that is downloaded with the files is only good for two or three transfers. After that when you transfer the files the zune software will update the info and transfer to the Zune, but this doesn't work when you transfer to the Sony via WMP 11.

So it seems the only "lock" MS put on the Zune Marketplace and Zune Pass has to do with the renewal of the DRM right confirmation. Pretty lame. Nonetheless, using the Zune really got me interested in using a music rental idea. I have seen the list of choices, but does anyone have expereince with using these other services? Any of them provide Jpop, Kpop, and Cpop options? Thakns.

Does NWZ A818 Sq differ from A 808 SQ? What´s your take on zune vs. 818 sq?

thanks!

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Does NWZ A818 Sq differ from A 808 SQ? What´s your take on zune vs. 818 sq?

thanks!

I would say the 808 and 818 are the same to my ears. The zune isn't quite as detailed, but it is still very enjoyable! Not nearly as poor as the iPods. I was happy to see that the 818 does show up on my new mac mini's desktop and I can transfer files to it just fine.

I hope that helps.

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