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The Minidisc is dead, obsolete, KAPUT!!

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Guest Anonymous

I want, I need a minidisc recorder to record my band and my music lessons. This infringes no one's rights. (Oh yeah, as long as I'm putting down the cash, I wouldn't mind to be able to listen to some real music on it too.)

As a direct result of Sony's internal conflicts of interest which have contaminated MD technology industry-wide, I have spent way too much time on this forum and others this past week trying to sort through the intracies of MD, OpenMG, NetMD, Sonicgate, optical in (but not out!), line in, USB, Sony, Sanyo, titling (hello? this is 2003), data transfer, SPL, MP3, LP, MD>PC, PC>MD, Type-S ATRAC, ATRAC, ATRAC3, MP3 128 kbps, MDLP4, ATRAC (SP), Nero, Simpleburn, NiMH, Lithium, Type-R, encoding, decoding, ad infinitum. :x

My conslusion: this is all rather ASSININE!! MD technology is TOO COMPLICATED for the average user--it is the opposite of user friendly. What other consumer product requires the level of research and knowledge on the part of the consumer as the MD? None. Most people have no idea what (restrictions and lack of features) they're getting themselves into when they buy one, and most sales representatives have no idea either. Its just too complicated.

I predict the iPod will mothball the MD this year when it adds recording capability, which I think will happen at the end of the year. As simple as that. And the iPod is so simple! I base this on what I have been reading on Mac rumor sites (I know these can be unreliable, but overall I think it makes sense). For example:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/200...221152124.shtml

http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archi...ives/000028.php

http://www.spymac.com/forums/showthread.ph...9484#post259484

Don't get me wrong, I like the MD and I want one, but I will avoid buying one if at all possible because of all of the restrictions. Hat's off to the creators of these few minidisc forums and MD die-hards like Mystyler who provide essential hands-on basic information to people who need it because it isn't supplied in a comprehensible way by Sony and its syncophants. Mystyler should be immediately hired by Sony and flown out to Japan once a month in business class on Cathay Pacific in order to knock some heads together at Sony headquarters. :twisted:

The one hope is that when Apple adds (non-compressed) recording features to the iPod and Sony and its syncophants are forced to either (i) add such features to the MD, or (ii) scrap the MD for hard-disk or memory chip technology, they will choose the former. Personally, I think MD has had its day. Sorry. I would start Ebaying your MDs now.

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Guest Anonymous

"My conslusion: this is all rather ASSININE!! MD technology is TOO COMPLICATED for the average user--it is the opposite of user friendly. What other consumer product requires the level of research and knowledge on the part of the consumer as the MD? None. Most people have no idea what (restrictions and lack of features) they're getting themselves into when they buy one, and most sales representatives have no idea either. Its just too complicated. "

I don't portend to know the future for the minidisc, but after spending a couple days trying to educate myself about this technology, and after finding out that MD isn't even uploadable to a PC without major expense and hassle, I'd have to agree with the above. I'm very used to ferreting out the details and nuances of various technologies, but it wasn't until I posted a simple query on this forum, that I really realized how limited the MD format is for basic recording. I simply don't understand why MD hasn't already been perfected as the portable recording vehicle that it could be. I wonder if it won't eventually be seen in much the same light as Sony's Beta VCRs. I'm very frustrated and disappointed with the lack of upfront manufacturers information on this technolgies limitations.

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I don't think it's fair to say ipod (or any mp3 players) is absolutely better than MD players/recorders or vice versa. It really depends on what you use your player for and what you care. Some people think that ipod is much bigger and heavier than MD portables. A lot of people also believe that MD portables offer way much better sound quality than mp3 players from an original audio CD. I suggest you to give both a try.

I love MD.

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It's absurd to think the MD is obsolete or going out. This has been said constantly for the past 10 years MD has been in existence, and MD's presence only becomes stronger and stronger.

MD is actually the simplest recording medium there is, one of its best features. You put in a disc and press record, there is no configuring or setup or software required. NetMD is another issue which is plagued with the typical complications when dealing with PC's.

In critisizm of IPODS and similar devices, having 100's of hours of music in a device at one time isn't necessarily a good thing. I find it becomes harder to decide/weed through what to listen to and I end up not giving a lot of tracks a chance. However if I only have a few MD's with me I find my experience much better because I'm limited to my options. That might sound absurd but its true. This comes after living with a 200 disc CD changer in my home, and a computer MP3 player in my car with a 10gig drive, all of which I've gotten rid of. I prefer dealing with albums in a real physical disc I can hold, rather than navigating through a virtual realm such as an ipod interface in folders. I find my real life experience with my music a lot better this way.

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MD might be very bad in recording and the hazzle around it, but the simlicity in just record a CD to the MD from your home Hi-Fi and then listen to it anywhere, should NOT be forgotten!

If you're like me, just want to listen to some music, I only say; hurray for MD! 2-3 CD's on one MD in LP2, and the discs are small.

It works just fine for simple users as me.

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I originally got into MD because I was sick of tape hiss, drift and all the other headaches involved in recording to tape. The portability, sound quality and ease of use still blow my mind. I just plug the MD into a sound source and hit 'record'. I figured it was simply another componant for my stereo, and that's a huge point in favour of MD: it doesn't have to be slaved to a computer.

Keep in mind this whole "connect to the PC" thing is new to me. Titling an MD on the computer is new, LP2/4 are new....it's all very wonderful, from my standpoint. It is truly sad that Sony will never allow the full potential of the MD format to be reached, but I'm very happy with what I have. I'd rather have a good, solid MD in my hand than a few ethereal computer files hiding somewhere.

Besides, my girlfriend HATES anything she needs to read a manual for. She was able to pick up MD in a snap and loves it.

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Guest Anonymous

I think all of the comments made in favor of the MD above are valid. The MD could be considered "simple" if you (1) don't ever try to hook it up to a computer, (2) use it only for recording and (3) only play your recordings on a minidisc player. MD does these three things very, very well. Otherwise, it gets complicated. In a similar sense, my PDA could be viewed as simple if I only use it as a paper weight.

The whole point is that if you are limited to these uses 1-3. If you want to do anything else, by the end of 2003 it seems probable that you'll be better off with an iPod or similar device which will be able to do everything the MD can (including high resolution recording and playback) plus things that the average consumer reasonably expects to be able to do, like uploading, downloading and even (gasp) titling songs, without a degree in rocket science.

Additionally, I stand by my comment that most MD purchasers are caught unawares by the restrictions they will be confronted with. Other threads on this forum attest to this. I agree that consumers need to take responsibility to educate themselves, but Sony has gone way overboard with the MD and has more or less hoodwinked the vast majority of MD buyers. People should not have to resort to obscure internet forums to get basic information about what their MD player costing hundreds of dollars can and can't do.

Vote with your wallet I say.

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Guest Anonymous

My wallet says go with the $100 mzn505 instead of the $400 iPod.[/quote

The iPod is also a bootable 5+gig external firewire hard drive. MD is really not in the same league. There is a lot of iPod bang for the buck.

CDs are preferable to MD easily for three reasons:

1. Every stereo has a CD player. Every friend's car has a CD player. My PC, every PC has a CD player. Burn once and play everywhere. For years and years.

2. All portable players have buffered play to avoid skipping.

3. CDRs are cheap (easily 30 cents each).

I personally decided to purchase a used MD on ebay for portable music. I choose MD so I could record sources and go portable. Benefit to MD is extended play, size and re-recordability. I am happy with my purchase, but I would have bought a CD-R Walkman if there was one.

Xtian

sony

900

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You can keep your I-pod.

I've used MD for the last for years, recording my band, recording tracks to take to a studio, recording music to listen to, recording sound fx. I can't imagine doing anything like that with an I-pod.

If my mate has something on MD for me, I just take the disc and whack it in my machine. Couldn't do that with an I-pod.

'Could I just just borrow your $400 I-pod while I copy that audio?...'

...

Also, the I-pod is an MP3 player, so the data compression is going to be greater, therefore, more whistley, artifact-laden audio. Yuck. I'm not denying MD uses 'preceptual coding', but it's a lot less compressed than MP3.

You say MD is on the way out, and I know at least two friends at the moment who are in the process of buying units.

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As long as the IPOD plays only MP3 format, its only going to get a certain user base.

Now if somebody puts out somehting that plays Ogg format and records live audio, sure - that would be a threat.

But MP3 format sounds like crap you can't even play continious mixes on it. So even if Apple adds recording capabilty to IPOD, anyone with discerning ears will still prefer the MD.

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Guest Anonymous

Actual cost of 20G gootable FIREWIRE drive is $200 (MacZone) + $120 n505 (NIB on eBay with paynow) = $320 - 400 = $80 difference. Granted this can buy a lot of MDs. Also could buy 200 CD-Rs with this.

The MD is NOT a bootable drive and never will be. You can't download the recorded FX to your PC digitially. And there seems to be no indication this is in the future of MD.

A portable CD-R would be a much better product. Or a portable DVD-R! at 4G per disk! (>_<)

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I hate noobs

I mean, every electronic devices owner should know at least some technical stuffs about how it works...

And i also hate guest...damn how hard is it to find the "Register" link and click on the activation link?

noobs...noobs... :roll:

Btw, tell me how many time a HDD need to be dropped in order to break compared to MD?

How long does the battery last? 10hours? laugh.gif Great! Really!

Oh and how much a memory card cost? Can you swap HDDs with your friends? Let me know if you do so tongue.gif

Ohhh and i see you have a pretty remote too! biggrin.gif 6 buttons NO LCD, NO BACKLIGHT! WOW!!!!

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Guest Anonymous

I used to be a big fan of MD technology, but now I just can't get excited about it anymore. I have a ton of blanks that are unused, and the only time I play my MDs are at the gym. For everything else I've replaced the MD with CDRs. It's so fast to burn MP3 compilations onto CD now, and my ears can't tell the difference in quality. I've spent way too much money on MD gear as an early adopter, and refuse to spend any more buying the latest "NetMD" just so I can copy music faster to minidiscs. Sony really disappointed me with the lack of support in preserving consumer fair use rights. :cry:

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I think the question is more of how the minidisc format/hardware is going to evolve in the next few years. The MD has been around for 10 years now. It's very unlikely the hardware will ever get much smaller, nor will batterly life likely to get much longer. Other than enhanced codecs, where is there room for innovation in the MD world? The only thing I can think of would be if manufacturers finally allowed you to upload your tracks via the usb connection but we all know how likely that is to happen.

Hard drive recorders, on the other hand really only been around for a year or two. Let's not forget that when MD units first came out they were also prohibitively expensive, their battery life was terrible, and they had no LCD remotes. But over time, the prices came down, the units got smaller, and batterly life increased dramatically. I tend to think that the same thing will happen with hard drive recorders. I even think that as media gets cheaper, manufacters may switch to memory-stick type formats rather than hard drives. And I also feel that the inherent superiority that ATRAC holds over the mp3 codec will gradually erode in time as people start ripping their mp3s at higher and higher bitrates.

So yes right now, feature wise, MD is the superior format for me. I recently purchased a N707 over an Archos recorder because of the portability, battery life and the overall clunkiness of the Archos interface/design. But I really don't see how the MD format will continue to innovate in the future whereas I can easily see how hard drive or flash memory type recorders can only get smaller, cheaper, and capable of holding a greater capacity in the future.

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Guest Anonymous

I've been using the MD for about 9 years now and think it's extremely easy to use. My first recorder is dying as we speak (not bad for a 9 year run and much use) so I have a new one on the way. I don't think I'd purchase a second deck at $500 + (first one was around $700) if I thought they were difficult to use. I found the MD much easier to use than MP3's, and the sound quality is 100X that of MP3's.

As for versatility, with a little experimentation, I was able to transfer my music off MD to CDR using a stand-alone CDR Deck.

Are MD's doomed? I don't know. I suppose there's not much demand for them, but maybe not. I see blank disks at Target, Sam Goody, Sears and a host of other places. When I first got my recorder, I had to special order them from Crutchfield.

While I am adept at using computers (I'm a programmer for crissakes!) I like the fact that I don't need to boot up my computer to make a mix disc, and I don't have to be disappointed by the sound quality.

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Guest Anonymous

I don't think anyone is saying that MDs aren't easy to use, or that they have inferior sound quality. Our gripe is with Sony's artificially imposed restrictions on MD functionality. There's no reason why the MD couldn't have replaced floppies in PCs and supplemented flash memory cards in consumer electronic devices. At the very least it should've offered the bi-directional file xfer capabilities of WMA (which offers content protection while still preserving some fair use rights). What other digital (audio) formats only allow you to perform one-way transfers??

There's so much potential for the minidisc that Sony hasn't exploited, and subsequently broader use formats such as CDRs and compact flash cards have taken over in mass consumer electronics. I hope Sony wises up and sees the light, before it's too late and even the most die-hard fans of MD abandon it.

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Guest Anonymous

With all the other available media which could be used with computers available, Sony would have been stupid to try to break into that market with the MD.

There's more to marketing a product than just "a few people want it". You've got to be able to compete in the market. When I got my first computer in '97, a zip drive only cost around $100. At that time, given the price of blank MDs, they would have had significant difficulty competing with Iomega (look how well Imation did with their "superdisks"). Just a couple of short years later, CDR was the big thing and took the market from Iomega. With CD players nearly ubiquitous, and a burned CD working in nearly all computers and many CD Players, the notion that MD could break into that market is ludicrous.

To me, MDs have and always will be for truly serious audiophiles.

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Guest Anonymous

To me, MDs have and always will be for truly serious audiophiles.

It's a lossey-compressed format! Audiophiles like complaining about the quality of CD's, MD's and MP3's are completely out of the picture.

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Guest Anonymous

With all the other available media which could be used with computers available, Sony would have been stupid to try to break into that market with the MD.

To me, MDs have and always will be for truly serious audiophiles.

"With all the other available media which could be used with cameras available, Sony was stupid to try to break into that market with the Memory Stick." How does that sound?

IMO it would've been a brilliant marketing manoeuver for Sony to make the MD format as widely spread as possible, including its usage as a data storage device. Its potential as a replacement for the floppy is one niche market that Sony could've easily gone after. I mean, what other cheap viable replacement is there for the floppy disk, that is (re)write capable in DOS/boot mode? And if everyone used MDs for data, wouldn't it make sense that some of them would try it for music as well? This probably wouldn't have required much investment on Sony's part, as they had already developed some MD-based storage devices. Just think how much longer their line of disc-based cameras would've lasted if they had replaced the floppy with MD (as opposed to write-once CDRs).

Finally, to say MDs are targeted toward serious audiophiles is just a joke. Thanks for making me laugh today! :wink:

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Guest Anonymous

I don't see the MD growing as a music format with the general consumer. After experiencing the unrestricted d/l, u/l, & copying capabilities of MP3, no way anyone is going to go back to a limited format like MD. I bet you won't be able to find anyone who has *replaced* their MP3 collection with MDs.

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Guest Anonymous

There's no way Sony's going to let the MD be used for data storage. It would just become another form of media for MP3 players, and that would mean the death of ATRAC. Their best bet for survival is to allow people to upload digitally, and use SCMS to minimize piracy.

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Guest Anonymous

Can't seem to access the page at the moment. However, assuming it were true, it's still not going to save MD due to the following reasons:

1) It's not a feature heavily promoted/supported by Sony, so only the most hard-core MD users are ever going to know about, and use it.

2) The process is probably not easy as drag/dropping files with Windoze file manager. It requires what, a PC sound card w/digital in? How many PCs sold today have that capability? MP3 is still a way easier solution by comparison.

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Guest Anonymous

I think the point that is being missed here is that MD was originally created for serious audiophiles. I don't consider MP3's to meet that type of requirement, since that sound quality of 90% of the MP3's I've heard is as even worse than the sound quality of most cassettes.

Sony would be stupid to even try to compete with MP3 using MD. I've come to the conclusion that the type of person who is downloading MP3 files simply doesn't care about sound quality.

Myself, I'm willing to spend top dollar for top quality. But then, I don't use MD to steal music. I use it to make myself mixes of my favorite music to use in my portable player or transfer to CDR for use in the car/at work.

To be quite honest, I'm surprised that MiniDisc is still around today. I guess as long as I can have an MD recorder that works and have access to blank MDs, I'll keep using it.

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Guest Anonymous

Where do you get off saying that the MD was developed for serious audiophiles :?: :?: :?:

http://www.sony.net/Fun/SH/1-21/h4.html

"Ohga said to Tsurushima, 'You should develop a recording and playback device that uses a disc smaller than the CD to replace the audio compact cassette.'"

Do you consider tape to be "audiophile" level quality?

http://www.sony.net/Fun/SH/1-21/h5.html

"The CD, originally developed for only music applications, soon found new uses in AV equipment, computers, games and other areas. The CD-ROM, standardized in 1985, is today used to store audio, video images and text. The Video CD, standardized in 1993, is utilized for recording audio and video images. Since the MD was developed to handle the same applications as the CD, the MD Data format was standardized in 1993 for audio, video and text recording. MD Pictures, a format for recording video images, was standardized in 1994."

Sure looks to me like Sony planned, at one time, to use MD for the computer. You might want to do some research before spouting off your mouth.

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Guest Anonymous

Ok, my opinion is that MD was created for serious audiophiles. I assumed that it was, based on my experience with the format. My apologies if I was incorrect.

That said, try a little diplomacy the next time you post, instead of coming off like an arrogant ass.

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Guest Anonymous

You'd be surprised at how many "audiophiles" use MD as their portable format of choice and sometimes for home use. Tape can sound excellent, as long as you don't bother with Type I tapes.

This is all and good, and I for one have no gripes with the sound quality of ATRAC/MD. (On the other hand, I have yet to hear a low to mid-end cassette deck produce sound anywhere approaching MD. Even with my average hearing it would probably take a Nakamichi Dragon deck & high quality Type IV metal tapes to fool these ears.)

Now, back to the topic. Are there enough MD "audiophiles" to take the format into the mainstream? I just don't see it with the current (restricted) functionality. However, I'd love to be proven wrong! C'mon Sony, surprise us!

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Again, I like the MD concept very much but am frustrated with the nonsensical limitations.

I would also like to make it clear that copying a CD for personal use in the US is within one's "fair use" rights--it simply is not piracy. Outside of the US it may be a different story, however.

Is there any reason why Sony et al should continue hampering the MD with all of the limitations given the advent of:

-CD/R--anyone can copy a CD with a computer. Are all the MD restrictions and limitations really slowing the overall tide of piracy much? I really, seriously doubt it. What is the point? "Protecting the ATRAC format?" Come again? I mean really, looking at the big picture, what is the point of all these restrictions? Again, by the end of 2003 I think they will be even less relevant and maybe then we may see them removed.

-iPod: ACC (MPEG4) format rated as "inditinguishable from a regular CD" coming soon to an iPod near you. I think this is going to prove to be a big wake-up call for the MD and its going to happen in the next 2-3 months.

-MP3 players

-etc etc

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Now, back to the topic.  Are there enough MD "audiophiles" to take the format into the mainstream?  I just don't see it with the current (restricted) functionality.  However, I'd love to be proven wrong!  C'mon Sony, surprise us!

Check the portables section of www.head-fi.org/forums . **Most** serious uses choose MD as their portable format (there are quite a few MP3 fans, but every exists happily biggrin.gif), and some prefer old-school MDs to old school PCDPs! :shock:

It's not just portable either, there is a large number who swear by their ES or QS series decks, and I know one particular poster who has gone nuts over just how good Sony Professional MD decks sound.

Anyway, check out Head-Fi. It surprised me too to see that audiophiles were actually using and liking MD. Although LP modes don't go down as well as SP. biggrin.gif

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Guest Anonymous

MD's may get people who like the smaller size, or like showing off that they can spend $350 on a portable music player, or like the longer battery life - there's arguments in its favor, or none of us would be here. But the idea that it's for audiophiles is nonsensical.

The term "audiophile" implies that the quality of the audio is the main concern for the listener, not how good the battery life is or whatnot. There is not a single case where MD's are going to sound better than an CD. This is especially true when you consider that the vast majority of MD's are taken from CD, but *compressed* in a lossey format! And as for mix-CD's - well, that doesn't seem like audiophile behavior, but it's easy to make a custom CD-R...

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