kgallen

Other than threshold crossing detection to insert track breaks when doing recording from analogue, I've no idea how track marking works. I assumed over SPDIF there would be information in the frame that provided either some kind of sequence number (change in sequence number = new track) or an explicit track marker packet. Looks like I need to do some material research and reading up! Yes, Stephen, I do see you replying at what must be unearthly hours in your neck of the woods, I hope you are looking after yourself!

I'm a little lost - are we talking here about external kit (like Behringer SRC2496) preserving track marks, or about killing the SCMS bit? Thanks!

Super! All's well that ends well! Simple explanations are the best. Particularly on fairly costly and treasured pieces of equipment! We'll add 'hair' to the list... Well after we get though this Covid thing, a trip to the barbers will be pretty high on the list! Hopefully we learned a few things on the way too. I'm still reading that MD technical document in between family and "proper" work! Wikipedia searches tonight have included Wollaston Prism and Canada Balsam :-D Stephen - can this get any sort of "Solved" badge?

In Service Mode, it doesn't try to read the disc in the normal way (you can do naughty things in Service Mode) so C13 wouldn't be an issue :-)

I don't recall anything but I wonder if in service mode there is anything that tells you what type of disc it thinks is in there. I wonder if any of the service items change based on CD vs MO inserted disc. Do you have any other CD discs you could try? (With my own escapades I managed to get a copy - at sensible price - of Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds 2MD as a "collectable" and as CD-type discs for test purposes. They are my only MD-CDs...)

Not sure if your machine is one of the fancy tray-loading ones. In my machines, the disc goes in horizontally then drops vertically down by 5mm or so to locate the spindle and to lower the holes onto the WP/REF switches. So looking in the slot from the front, the switches are to the left at the front of the machine, but they are lower down than the slot. Easily seen with the drive in your hand, but probably still not easy to see from above with the lid off your machine. You're looking for a white and a blue pin, about 1mm diameter and 2-3mm high. On the first frame of the YouTube video on this link, you can see the two pins to the left corner, left of his finger. So blue is WP and white is REFLECT.

It's the hole or otherwise next to the hole that has the write protect tab. The machine can get the CD/MO information from the disc itself, but it's possible this case coding might help it read the premastered section. I'm still looking in the Primer document for this info, but I think we've covered this before in one of my posts. Stephen and I had a long conversation on this after he pointed me at this doc and I was having a read and learning lots about the technology. Possibly in my MDS-JE530 thread (we went off on one for quite a few posts on our journey of discovery). Anyway there are two tiny pin switches - one white and one blue - just to the inside of the drive where the WP and "REFRECT" (sic) (=REFLECT) holes end up when the disc is mounted. Possible the REFLECT pin got broken? However the MO discs have the hole and on the CDs the hole is blocked. So in MO discs the pin switch would be "unpressed" as it goes into the hole. If the actuator on the REFLECT switch was broken it would thus read as MO, so I'd expect the deck to read MO disc ok and CD discs possibly not. Primer Fig 2 (p2) and Figure 14 (p12).

I blame this forum for many of mine! :-D Oh and buying machines for parts and then finding they just need a little fix to make them fully working, rather than breaking for parts. Then seeing a nice one on eBay and not being able to resist it getting past. I often wonder, if the MDS-JE530 I bought a couple of years back (at the start of my MD resurgence) had worked out of the box (ultimately the ribbon cable joke!), would I have started buying my Tascam machines that lead onto the Sony MDS-E12 that lead on to a duff E10 and trying to fix that, that lead onto... :-D Maybe I've had a series of MD epochs... the early years (1998-2000, [JE520/R700]), the resurgence (2018), broken down into the "belt" period, the "IIC Stop" period (still ongoing), the "ribbon" period, the "MDM7" period, the "SIF" period (still ongoing and growing) and currently the "LP2" period! For completeness I'm afraid I've never had a HiMD epoch or a NetMD epoch! Anyway, enough of this! Back to the problem...! (I just counted, it's 15 machines: 3 portables, 1 system, 11 decks... ooops.)

I know we haven't solved your issue but I'm kinda relieved it hasn't fixed it! I've never known "switch it off and on again" be a solution on any of my decent equipment. More a "solution" for "lesser designs" and anything computer related.

Sorry it is just "blather". Thinking out loud really and sharing the thoughts. All the better if it's "educational" or useful! The Sony decks pretty much display the disc name/track name from the moment you turn them on if they already have the disc inside, they know if it's been ejected (TOC cloning aside) so don't bother spinning up the disc to get information they already have. It means playback can start much quicker as they already have the TOC/linked lists in memory so know where to put the laser to get at any requested track. Smart people did this stuff and with the demise of such equipment I fear the world is losing some of the skills of smart product design... In practical terms probably not, but like any component there is manufacturing variability and they can fail. Although I've bought "spares" (my MDS-E10 saga is well documented!) I've not needed to replace it in any of my ummm 12-13 decks, including my MDS-JE520 I've had from new (1998, maybe 1999) even though that machine did spend some years in the loft (unfavourable temperature swings for any equipment!). As you'd expect from Sony, it's a top quality Panasonic cell. A failed cell would probably exhibit as not retaining any machine settings or the data we discuss above. The machine is likely to operate normally when it's powered on (unless the battery failed with a low impedance short, but I don't know whether that is a viable failure mode for such things, probably not. For now, my assumptions are that the lens is clean (enough), the laser and detector block are fine, the spindle motor runs and the servo can track, so we hopefully don't have a major problem. One easy test for now would be the "unplug it for a few minutes" test. I'm not overly familiar with your machine but I suspect it's like my MDS-JE machines in that the on/off power button is "soft" in that it is handled by the machine's microprocessor rather than being a traditional clunky power switch that breaks the mains supply. This means that when plugged in, the machine has some "always on" circuity and is "woken up" by pressing the "power" button. It will be a "soft" button if you can have a disc in the machine with a dirty TOC, and pressing the power button will cause the TOC to be written before the machine "goes to sleep". Similarly on my MDS-JE machines, I can press the Eject button and the machine will eject the disc without "powering on" the machine first (and those smart engineers even put the machine back to sleep once the disc has been ejected).

Initially the title data is still in RAM from when the disc read ok the day before (there is a small lithium backup cell - when you take the lid off, a 15-20mm disc with purple/pink plastic around it). Subsequently ejecting a reinserting the disc, the RAM is cleared and the disc is read to retrieve this title data. Interesting that prior to the eject you could "play" for 10secs (I assume no C13 error appeared) which would suggest the deck "knew all about the disc" from the data already in RAM but was somehow unable to retrieve any ATRAC data from the main data section of the disc...

I think it's quite a neat idea! The brush has to be small so that the laser can keep aligned to the ADIP (address in pre-groove) that is used by the machine to keep track of where the laser is on the disc. When the brush passes the lens, there will be a burst of errors (no readable disc information) and a very brief machine panic of "I'm lost" before the brush passes and the laser can find the ADIP again. It probably looks to the machine like a "shock event" which of course it's designed to handle and one of the beautiful things about Minidisc (that CD players never really got working well due to the 1:1 read/output datarate of CDs versus the 5:1 of MD). I bet you don't even hear a gap in the music, due to the 10sec of RAM buffering of ATRAC data. Absolutely wonderful technology in these things! Given you can use this disc to remove "everyday light dust" from the lens without needing to open the machine (which your everyday user would be well advised against!) it should work ok. However in this case we're looking for another reason. If you're inside the machine, then a wipe of the lens with some isopropyl-alchohol on a swab won't hurt but I feel we might end up elsewhere with this one. Let's hope it's no worst than a ribbon cable reseat...

That cleaning disc is crazy - is that tiny speck the brush? How funny is that they mounted a tiny brush in the middle of an otherwise "normal" playable disc - and that you play some music, the music pauses whilst the laser lens gets a brush-up, then the music/I've finished speech starts up again!

Interesting... (Sorry if you already know this) Pressed discs use "pits and lands" the same way as a CD. These discs are "high reflectivity" regarding the detection mechanism used to extract the data. Recordable MO discs use the Kerr effect of rotation of the (laser) light polarisation due to magnetic field and are "low reflectivity" in the detection mechanism. The reflectivity type is coded with a dimple on the disc case, but also in the lead-in data that the machine gets when it first reads the disc. This lead-in data is put there when the disc is manufactured (CD and MO type) and is not changeable on MO discs (it is in pits and lands format, but "low reflectivity" - see Primer page 34). I'm not aware the read laser emit power is different for each of the disc types, but I could be wrong, I'd have to re-read the MD technical primer [*] on minidisc.org to refresh my understanding. ETA looks like both CD and MO discs use the same laser read power (~0.5mW, Primer $6.3 p40). So it's interesting you see a difference between your MO and (possible) CD "cleaning" disc. Have you any other CD discs you can try? According to the Primer doc, p39, the same detector elements (I and J) are used for detecting both pit and MO signals, so it wouldn't seem there is a fault with the detection optics/electronics. (But as ever we should look at simple explanations first, rather than some catastrophic component failure on an otherwise known-good machine!) However I'm not sure what these "lens cleaning" discs look like. You say it's a playable disc, rather than one with "some fluffy stuff" on it! Whilst you have the lid off, try the ribbon cable remove-and-reseat that seems to have recovered some of our machines from C13! Good to hear from you now SIF is back online! Kevin [*] http://minidisc.org/manuals/minidisc_training.pdf

All those referenced articles on the Forum are fantastic. If you want a bit more background, this Instructables article is quite accessible: https://www.instructables.com/id/Electret-Microphone-Preamplifier/#step2 (Note the above is a single channel design. The Forum threads are covering a stereo (two channel) design.)

Just to loop back on this: If you need the internal ribbon cables, they might be a standard part. See my post linked here. I've not listed the MDS-JE520 or MDS-JE530 on that post, but I have those machines and if anyone needs to know then I could open up and have a measure and add to the "database" (shame we can't collect all this data in one centralised place - mods?).

Just to round this off, I received all of the cables from the eBay seller quoted above and they are pretty much exact to those in the machines. So these are more of an "off the shelf" part than I realised! I also got some longer 7P versions for use with the IOP measurement connector on the MDM-7 drives. Note: For MDM-5 drives, it's a JST SH1.25 pin connector not a ribbon cable, see my post here:

Ditto! Just Replying (gently!) to check it's working from my side...

To add to what Stephen is saying regards SP and MDLP: - Your MDS-JE520, MDS-JE530, MZ-R37 machines only support SP (standard play) - they pre-date (only just for the 530) around 2000 when MDLP (minidisc long play) was introduced [*]. - Your MZ-N707 will support SP plus the two MDLP modes LP2 and LP4. So if you record a disc on the N707, you need to use SP mode (it will be in the menu somewhere) if you want to play that recording on any of your other machines. As Stephen says, if you record in LP2 or LP4 on your N707, those tracks will play back silent (by design) on the other machines - you may see "LP:" on their display. A disc can have any arbitrary mixture of SP, LP2 and LP4 tracks on it. The whole disc doesn't need to be the same mode (although in practical terms they usually are!) - but those LP2/LP4 tracks will play back silent on a non-MDLP machine and the track timer will increment as usual as the track progresses. All tracks should play back fine on your N707 and the machine will automatically recognise the mode (SP/LP2/LP4) of the track and configure itself accordingly. I hope this is making some sense! Kevin [*] They may pre-date MDLP (just), but in my opinion the 520 and 530 are still fine machines. My 520 probably gets the most use of all of my MD machines (and I have a lot!) - my "baby" from new in 1998/99.

That's ok, it may well have a Sony chipset in it! (I mention my Tascam MDs on occasion, they have Sony chipsets in them so I think we can sneak them past Stephen :-) ) Sorry I can't help with your battery problem, which is what you came for!

There is a service manual available but there is no manual adjustment to be done. There is a complex electronics-based servo mechanism built into the drive that aligns the laser to the tracks automatically. This is similar to a CD player which largely uses the same tracking mechanism. See minidisc.org for the SM and the Minidisc technology tutorial: MDS-JE520 page with Service Manual Minidisc technology tutorial Stephen talks about different reflectivities. But as far as I know this is only a difference between the high-reflectivity prerecorded (stamped) discs which are pretty much like CDs physically (pits and lands) and the recordable (magneto-optical) discs which are low-reflectivity. With the MO discs, the Kerr effect (light polarisation affected by magnetic polarisation) is used to determine data content. You don’t need to know or care about any of this, the deck works it out automatically.

My JE520 (1998) is perfectly happy with 80 minute discs. The 80 minute discs use a slightly finer pitch of the tracks (see this FAQ). I'm not aware they are incompatible with any MD machine but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if the very earliest machines (early 1990's) couldn't use them. At the beginning of MD there were 60 minute and 74 minute discs. I'm not sure I understand your title though - what do you mean by format? The blank discs don't have a format as such, however you can record in SP, LP2 or LP4 on either. As BearBoy suggests, discs with an MDLP recording (LP2, LP4) will play as silent on your JE520 which doesn't support MDLP. Kevin Ooops maybe I dived in and got a bit technical, I can see BearBoy has been giving you a better intro on the other thread...

The easiest approach is to try and get another machine with an MDM-5A drive. This would be MDS-JE520, MDS-JB920, MDS-S40. However if I got a 520 or 920, I'd probably prefer to use that over the 330 as they are higher-range models with more features. But if you get a cosmetically poor or broken one one for a decent price then you can use it as a donor deck for the drive, or the motor if the drive is (really) shot. If you really just want the motor then pretty much any Sony deck will probably have the motor you want (you don't specify if it's the spindle, tracking or load motor you need). Kevin

Do you mean this type? In cases: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-MiniDisc-tray-Holds-40-discs-in-cases-storage-holder-stand-rack-box/202653841906 No cases: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-MiniDisc-tray-Holds-60-discs-not-in-cases-storage-holder-stand-rack-box/202625974519 Let us know how you get on!

Hiya. Yes, I'm sure this is was not designed as an MD-specific case, even though it's sold as one! More a generic case with some dividers you can put in approximately the right place. Probably started off as a case for "music cassettes" as the model is MC-20/SW. Those dividers can move into any of the grooves you can see, although the case does arrive with them in this position, and in an outer box printed "minidisc case". To answer your specific question, yes there is a gap and yes if you shake the case they do move around a bit. However the lid is lined with bumpy foam that does clamp down quite well onto the discs. At least in my case with them in the slip cases. As you've already determined from the picture, the centre column is a closer fit. Probably a 4mm gap in the centre column and 8mm gap in the two outside columns. More of a gap if you had the discs alone and probably overly rattly! As you've probably also twigged, this case is described as being 80 MD capacity. So how do you get 80 MDs in 3 columns? Surely 78 or 81 capacity! :-D I have a couple of those "wire-frame" type racks that "display" the MDs, however mine is probably more of a "functional collection" than a "display" collection, and this box has been a good way, in this example at least, to collect my blank stock together in one place. I have a very large number of MDs in my desk at work. Many are stacked loose, but I do have a few of those 10-capacity acrylic flip-top cases - Maxell brand maybe? I've just ordered two more of these cases from CPC to accommodate my ever expanding current and probably future disc stock! Seems the "MC" is probably Monacor. Here is their page on the product: https://www.monacor.com/products/components/transport-and-storage/racks-and-cases/mc-20-sw/