Michael_Walker

hmm this is in direct opposition to what the sony rep told me: Arnold: The tracks that are recorded in HiMD mode (ATRAC) can only be transferred back to computer for editing. granted, its bad english - but what else could Arnold be trying to say but "Only the tracks that are recorded in HiMD mode (ATRAC) can be transferred back to computer for editing. " (as opposed to the PCM tracks that cannot be transferred to the computer at all) in any event - i was asking him POINT BLANK how i could record my own original live music on the MD and then get it back into the computer to edit - and he does say "for editing" - what else could he be referring to but "export to WAV"??

my understanding is that you cannot EDIT anything in SonicStage - but rather it will allow you to EXPORT ('ATRAC-recorded') files by converting them into a format that you CAN edit (like a WAV file...) ( ** and once you have it in WAV, you can do anything you like with it ... burn, convert to MP3, etc etc)

Ideally, you want to hook the output of the soundboard's MAIN MIX into the LINE INPUT of your recording device! if your MD only has MIC inputs, then you will need to "pad down" the signal...

Excerpt from the transcript of my : Arnold: I am afraid the PCM tracks from the MD cannot be transferred to the computer. You: not at all? that kind of defeats the whole purpose of buying one! what kind of recordings CAN be transferred from the MD to the computer? Arnold: The tracks that are recorded in HiMD mode (ATRAC) can only be transferred back to computer for editing. You: hmmm.. so ATRAC3 (256K-ish) recordings is the best it can do,( if i want to be able to later edit the tracks on the puter), but i can record linear PCM to disks to sort of "archive" material (although i can never actually do anything with the archives - aside from play them on the MD unit) ??? Is that correct? Arnold: Yes, you are correct. (** full transcript of my chat is here: http://forums.minidisc.org/viewtopic.php?t=5316 )

Well, THIS musician WILL have Hi-MD, actually i was expecting it a couple days ago but the SONY delivery service seems to be having trouble finding a single truck that can make it across town... Anyway, I am disappointed that some VERY USEFUL inherent functionality was done away with, with a few keystrokes of a programmer. But i still expect to get SOME use out of it. 1) its still a portable recorder, that can record in PCM. I dont have to drag my notebook around town anymore. 2) it has re-usable removeable media, so i can record lots of stuff, archive it, sort it out later, and eventually reuse the Hi-MDs ( if they ever start to ship any!) 3) Sony told me i could always high-speed upload ATRAC-compressed stuff I record (Just not PCM!) and access the files freely for conversion. So its fine for recording rehearsals, dumping them to the puter, and converting to MP3s for distribution to band members. Right now, i record a couple hours of WAVs on notebook, bring it home, hook it to my LAN, copy all the WAVs across ( which takes quite a few minutes) then run batch converter to make em into lo-fi MP3s that my band-mates can quickly download off my server. SO - unless i am missing something - i can still do a similar process using the MD (and i can leave the notebook at home) 4) I record a lot of rehearsals, not much of it its actually "KEEPER" material - but on the other hand, GIGS, and other stuff thats really WORTH uploading to the computer, i can (cross fingers) always at least digitally 'rip' in real-time by snagging it off the soundcard. The main thing is that I am able to record PCM, uncompressed... and record LOTS of it to relatively cheap re-usable media. I have avoided buying a MD-recorder for years because i didnt want to record "lo-fi". 5) PCM recording time on the (perhaps mythical) Hi-MD minidiscs is long enough to actually be USEFUL for recording gigs. Sure, I have 5 gigs free on my notebook hard drive, but that thing is fragile and heavy, i'd prefer to leave it at home and use a PORTABLE recorder. Plus, when im doing a LOT of recording, im always having to 'clean off ' the hard drive and achive stuff to CDRs - might as well just archive stuff to MD right from the get-go... Regrets? i have a few (maybe more will come next week when i actually get to start testing this stuff) 1) it WOULD have been nice if the machine could at least KNOW if a recording was made via its analog line-in, and treat all such stuff as "NOT COPYRIGHT" - letting me stream the PCM files to my puter as fast as USB 1.1 could carry em - for further processing in a WAV editor. I think that digital-digital bit-for-bit exact copy recordings done on the optical input perhaps might argueably sometimes need to be "copy-protected" in some way - but COME ON!? Analogue recordings?!!?? Why isnt Big Brother hanging around the line in of my cassette deck, too??

600/LEE SAGA update... i ordered this thing from Sonystyle.ru last weekend.. they emailed back confirmation and said they would call and let us know when they would come by and deliver it on monday or tuesday. Actually, they didnt respond by tuesday , so we phoned them and they said they would call us back with a shipping date. (yeah, right!) By wednesday we had to call them again, and they promised to deliver it "sometime on friday morning". By friday noon, not a peep, so we called again, and this time they say they will deliver between 10Am -4 pm Monday "for sure"

apparently, the Australian NH600 (http://www.sonystyle.com.au/catalog/produc...ategoryId=22560) is shipping NOW: "Buy now & receive a FREE 1 GB Mini Disc & a bonus charger" wow, here in russia we get no disc, and not even a crummy AA alkaline battery...

Zombietycho: thanks, but i can buy normal 'MD' media locally at any software kiosk on the street. :smile: my soundcard does let me record off the soundcard "stereo mix" but i dont know if thats actually digital, or after its converted to analogue. In any event, IF indeed sony is streaming the PCM playback into the puter via the USB cable, then I am sure there is a way to capture it . The question is, WHY should i have to jump through hoops to access the full fidelity data of MY own PCM recording of my own original music? When I make analogue recordings off the line inputs, or indeed, digital recordings (off my digital guitar amp or mixer) through the digital input, then it should be nobody's business what i do with that data! (I assume Sony has SCMS incorporated in the digital input already, to thwart would-be copyright infringers*...) * note: i know that such devices as a $200 Behringer SRC2496 Ultramatch Pro Format Convertor are routinely used to strip off SCMS data during digital transfers - i just do not advocate the use of such devices for piracy!

**bump** its JULY 2004, and one low-end hi-MD player (and one low-end recorder - in selected markets) is finally SHIPPING! But where can we buy the Hi-MD media?

I shall post some detailed reports next week :smile: - last week i was really looking hard to see a review of the Australian 'line-equipped' 600 version, but couldnt find any online. But this one will be well-documented (especially the mysterious software features)! I have lots of digital gear here, so can test the digital input too... After i get it working, I can probably post a few 'snippets' of recordings over on my Canadian web-server (i dont have much bandwidth here...)

Sure, i would "take" the NH900, or better yet the magnesium-bodied one (NH-1?) if it were EVER going to appear in stores here! But i have been waiting forever, i need this unit TODAY so i can stop dragging my notebook across town every day (its ancient, getting battered, - i just had to shell out $170 for a new screen, and frankly its just awkward carrying it on our crowded Moscow subways!) But really, this is pretty utilitarian, i dont need 6-band digital EQ, or a radio, or digital headphone amp (well, maybe!) - just give me a pair of line inputs, and PCM-quality recording, and i have a serviceable notebook-replacement! I dont plan do do much EDITING really - recordings made with this unit will always be "captured" live performances, which means we will take the bad with the good, ("warts and all...") if the energy of the take is up to standards. No editing required! (just a little mastering on those keeper takes) :grin: The main use for this right now is daily "rushes" where i dump the takes from our rehearsal to my main computer, convert them to fairly lo-fi 96K mono MP3, and post them on my webserver (or burn to CD) so the other band members can hear what they did. Later, i would like to use it for recording actual GIGS in hi-fi PCM glory... anything actually releaseable would likely be from a gig, not a rehearsal. Hi-MD looked like a good way to archive gigs in PCM for future evaluation (usefull when we are gigging more regularly, since the giggage is cheaper than hard drives! But i guess if the (much hoped for) crack around this PCM restriction isn't found, i can revert to lugging the notebook to gigs, or (shudder) buy a DAT machine ("DAT SUCKS!") So, anyway ... count me in on the "early-adopter" bandwagon, i took the plunge and "bought" a MZ-NH600/LEE ( blue case) today! Actually, i visited some shops (which had nothing but old MDs) and my wife (the only russian-speaker in the house) called a bunch of the largest SONY dealers, and was told "the Hi-MD isn't certified yet" - which i took as dealer-speak for "we can't get them yet" I went to the russian sony web-store, (http://www.sonystyle.ru/sonystyle/main.screen) and had Lena CALL the web store and verify that they actually really DO have them in stock as listed on the front page. They said they did, and advised us to register at the web-store. So, they NOW promise to deliver one to my house "within 5 days" (its friday evening here, and i wont be home this weekend anyway) for only an extra ten bucks delivery charge. So total cost, US$200. Now the traditional "sony bad news in the fine print": - it doesnt come with even a single Hi-MD disk! In fact, it doesnt even come with an "old" MD disk! It comes with NOTHING, not even a 10 cent AA battery! I have a suspicion that the russian distributor is probably strippng all the hi-MD media out of them to re-sell later! Or does SONY actually have the audacity to sell these without even one disk included? I know one thing, the russian sony web-store doesnt offer ANY MD media! I have seen the 'old' MD media all over the place, so at least i can get a few of those at local kiosks. But it might be a couple months before i can get any Hi-MD discs so i can evaluate this unit properly! I dont suppose anyone knows where i can buy them mail-order?

hmmm.. seems that hi-MD CANT record linear PCM and then dump it to puter... here is the transcript of my chat with sony a minute ago: Arnold: Hi, my name is Arnold. How may I help you? You: Hi! I am trying to find some info before a Hi-MD purchase.. You: i want to use Hi-MD portable (with line inputs) to record my band rehearsals, and then take the unit home and dump the audio tracks to my computer.. is this possible? Arnold: I am glad to know that you are interested in the new Hi-MD players. ** at this point i suspected that arnold was a BOT :-) Arnold: Are you interested in recording a live music and then transfer that music to the computer? You: yes, exactly.. .right now i have to lug my notebook computer across town every night.. would like to replace it with Hi_MD recorder! Arnold: May I know the operating system of your computer? You: currently, win2000 on all my machines Arnold: Yes, you can do that Micheal. May I know the model number of HiMD player that you are interested in? You: i'm in russia, and the only hi-MD machine currently availble here is the MZ-NH600/LEE ( also SEE & WEE, which i think are just different colors)... i am hoping i can get its menus to display english - i cant find a manula for it on the russian site. Apparently its an NH-600 + optical and line inputs, i'm not sure what domestic model manual would have the same 'recording' features... Arnold: I am afraid I do not have information about models that are available on Russia. You: OK... the other question ( aside from the menu language and whereabouts of a manual i could look at) is if you can tell me if PCM tracks recorded on th eunit, and transferred to the computer are stored in a lossless format ( like WAV file) that i can edit later? Arnold: I am afraid the PCM tracks from the MD cannot be transferred to the computer. You: not at all? that kind of defeats the whole purpose of buying one! what kind of recordings CAN be transferred from the MD to the computer? Arnold: The tracks that are recorded in HiMD mode (ATRAC) can only be transferred back to computer for editing. You: hmmm.. so ATRAC3 (256K-ish) recordings is the best it can do,( if i want to be able to later edit the tracks on the puter), but i can record linear PCM to disks to sort of "archive" material (although i can never actually do anything with the archives - aside from play them on the MD unit) ??? Is that correct? Arnold: Yes, you are correct. You: thanks for clearing that up! is there a web site where i can get the exact details on the recording formats (particularly which ones i can later transfer to the puter and convert to a wav file for editing) ?? Arnold: Please note that not all the MD players support PCM format. You: yes, sorry, i meant Hi-MD players, those are the only ones i am considering (due to the better recording fidelity allegedly possible) Arnold: The Hi-MD players support PCM format. You: OK, thanks very much for your time, arnold, have a nice day/evening/etc :-) Arnold: I will forward few pages with with you can get more information on Hi-MD players and the formats. Arnold: http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/ You: thanks very much :-) URL Received: http://www.sony.net/Products/ATRAC3/overvi...view/index.html Arnold: Are you able to view the pages? You: yes, i can see those :-) Arnold: Is there anything else that I can assist you with? You: thats all for now, thank youi very much! Arnold: Thank you for using Sony Online Support today. Please feel free to contact us for further assistance.

apparently these are available here (i'm in Russia) So i am on the verge of picking one up. the only problem is that i cant find much info on line ( what there is, is in Russian) and no manual in particular. i need a HI-MD recorder to take to my band rehearsals and gigs and just dub the analogue main mix off the board every night (to save lugging my laptop across town every day).. recording into the line inputs of the 600 the plan would be record in PCM , take it home and dump the files to my puter. I'm just wondering if the 600 will do the job, or if i should wait till august/whenever and get a 700/800/900. I would like to be able to at least set the input levels, dont know if i can on this model! we have the MZ-NH600-LEE, MZ-NH600-SEE, MZ-NH600-WEE all available right now, near as i can tell they are just different colors of the same unit. any advice would be greatly appreciated!