Killroy

Hello ozpeter, first of all, thanks for your reply, and second: yes, you're totally right here and I really did not consider this! Of course, you will automatically get trackmarks when recording digitally from a CD or or even an analoguous source in case there are moments of silence for some seconds - if you want them or not. But the solution is simple: just delete all of this unwanted trackmarks so that your recording becomes one large, single track on the disc. The "track healing" procedure works as well on this track then - I tried it out! At this occasion, I found out another important issue: the procedure will NOT work with trackmarks that were already set during recording! It MUST BE trackmarks that have been set afterwards with the unit's editing functions! Of course, it's a little paradox you first have to delete trackmarks that you might probably set again on the same positions afterwards, but it only works like this :-)) Cheers - Killroy

Hi, I'd like to know, if anybody else has already discovered this phenomenon too... In one sentence, this describes a procedure that restores a HiMD-recording made through line-in to it's original state, although selected parts of it were edited, uploaded to SonicStage and even deleted before. Sounds incredible, but works on my MZ-NH600 device... I already described this procedure in the "Tips and Tricks" forum, but I did not get any response there - perhaps because I did not describe it very comprehensive or nobody dared to try it out since there is a small risk of destroying a disc's content... or was it just my subject title that was simply boring :-) However, I can't imagine, that it is really not interesting for anybody in this community - so please give me a second chance here :-) In general, this procedure utilizes an obvious firmware bug: the unit seems not to check, that a segment of a track recorded from line-in was moved to another position and deleted afterwards, and thus it just restores the full original recording after the gap caused by this operation was closed again! In particular, it works like this: Insert a blank, Hi-MD formatted disc, connect any analog or digital source to the unit's line input jack and record some minutes (10 or so…) of signal as one single track (sync rec and auto track mark off, ), in any of the available HiMD recording modes (PCM, Hi-SP, Hi-LP). You end up with track 01 in group GP01 if the standard setting of creating a new group for each new recording was in effect. After having finished recording, play back this single track and split it by adding two track marks with the REC/T.MARK key - one at the start and the second at the end of a particular song for example. You may use the cue function by pressing and holding the >> or << keys to locate the best positions quicker. Afterwards, the disc contains three tracks with numbers 01, 02 and 03, all of them within group GP01. Now, locate track 02 in GP01 with << or >> (works best if you are in pause mode) and move it to a position outside of group GP01 (menu -> edit -> move -> VOL UP or VOL DOWN or use the jog dial to navigate) - by default, the unit will propose a new position within group GP01. But to make things more clear, press <VOL DOWN> once to select the next position after (and outside of) GP01 and hit <enter>. Track 02 will become track 03 outside of GP01, while former track 03 of group GP01 becomes track 02 there. Connect the unit to your computer's USB-port, launch SonicStage and upload track 03 from outside of group GP01 to it (only track 03, and only once of course!). Play back the imported track in SonicStage to verify that it is the part you wanted to upload. When finished, press the MD-unit's STOP key and disconnect the USB wire after "EJECT DISC OK" appears on the display. Take the HiMD-unit, play back any track for a few seconds, then enter the pause mode (||). For the remaining two steps, it is essential that they are done in the described sequence and that the unit does NOT write the TOC (Table Of Contents) to disc ("WRITING SYSTEM FILE") in between - thus, you MUST NOT do or allow any of the following to occur after the next step: - leave the unit in playback pause mode without pressing any key for more than 1 minute - press the stop button - let the unit play back till the logical end of the disc (i.e. the end of track 03 in our example!) - try to eject the disc - use a battery with low power (especially, when operating on a 1 GB HiMD-Disc! - the unit will try to write out the TOC when it "fears" that battery power is almost exhausted). Should this happen anyways, the disc becomes unusable for the unit (this is the firmware bug!), but it remains readable for SonicStage so that you can still upload whatever is still allowed to be uploaded (tracks 01 and 02 in our example). To make the disc usable again for the HiMD-device in this case, you must format it to a blank disc afterwards. But if you take a little care, it should not really happen, so let's continue: While in pause mode (very important!), locate trackMARK(!) 02 in group GP01 with short(!) tips on << or >>, and delete it (REC/T.MARK key). Note, that the unit might not always respond for the first time here, and you will have to press the REC-key once again in that case. Hovever, "MARK OFF" appears for a short time if the operation was successful. This combines track 01 and track 02 of group GP01 to track 01 there, while track 03 becomes track02, but remains still outside of group GP01. Remember to avoid anything that may cause a TOC write right now! The next step sounds crazy now, but do it anyways: While still in pause mode, with short tips on << or >>, skip to track 02 outside of group GP01 (the one, you uploaded before as track 03) and ERASE it! (menu -> edit -> erase -> musical note symbol (looks a little like "dd") -> "TrackFromPC-erase?" will appear -> OK). Be careful to NOT erase the group GP01 or even the whole disc in this step, since the symbols displayed for selection of what to erase are not very meaningful!. If you erased group GP01 by accident, you may still save the disc by immediately taking the battery out of the unit (AND disconnecting the AC power supply AFTERWARDS in case you used one...). No TOC update will occur on the disc and you may start up again. If you erased the whole disc, there is no way out anymore since this forces an immediate writing of the TOC. If you're sure you did anything right, press the stop button finally (NOW it is save) and let the device write out the updated TOC ("SYSTEM FILE WRITING"). So the disc contains one single track again now, track 01 in group GP01, and this track should contain anything else you recorded before, except the part you uploaded to SonicStage and deleted afterwards - true? False! If you play back this track you will notice that it still has the full initial recording length and that it still contains EVERYTHING you originally recorded to it! Although you did seriously hurt the track by cutting out a piece, uploading it to SonicStage (this REALLY hurts :-)) and even erasing it, some kind of miraculous healing took place... The most interesting side effect of this miracle is, that your recording becomes again editable and uploadable for SonicStage! Thus, you may repeat the procedure and upload the same or even different track-parts to different instances of SonicStage on different computers. You may also restore your life recordings to their true original state after having them uploaded to SonicStage, which normally renders them to be "downloaded" tracks that cannot be edited or uploaded anymore - you just have to sacrifice some seconds of the beginning and ending, which should be applicable in most cases - especially if you already considered this post-processing method at the time you did the recording. This procedure does work with multiple tracks in one single "session" too, but it becomes a little (more) confusing then as you can imagine... My remaining three questions to you honest members of this very great MD community are now: Anybody ready to try this out with her/his unit (in worst case, you end up with the fresh formatted disc you started with) -? Does this work with Hi-MD devices other than the NH600 too (even the 2nd gen ones?) - or do I own a very particular one -? Does anybody have any idea or technical explanation why and how this might work at all - ? (I myself have no clue, but I like it :-)) Answers appreciated! Cheers to you all Killroy. *edit* corrected some wrong and misleading information regarding the changes of track numbers during the operation - I'd better actually done what I documented while writing about it! Sorry for that! Killroy.

Hi, MD fans! I joined this site months ago as a 'passive' member and got a lot of precious information about MD out there in the meantime - thanks to you all! But now, the time has come for me to share an interesting experience with you, that I recently made (rather by accident) with my MZ-NH600! I use this unit (also) to record my vinyl collection piece by piece to MD - first to be able to carry and listen to my favourite music whereever I go, and second to save my precious vinyls to a digital medium that is known to be one of the most reliable and durable ones because of it's magneto-optical technology. Occasionally, I transfer them also digitally to my PC with SonicStage (2.3), create WAVs with Sony's conversion tool and burn CDs out of it for use in my car's CD player. What always bothered me doing this, was the dumb restriction of SS to allow the digital upload of my own(!) recordings just once, and - even worse: I cannot edit the recordings anymore afterwards on the unit itself, because they were rendered to be "Tracks Form PC" after the one and only upload. But this times have gone now - at least for me! I found out (and others too, there is a thread from user A440 regarding this), that the MZ-NH600 and other HiMD-models seem to have a firmware bug that may lead to an unplayable disc - and this is how it works: 1. Take any recording made from line/mic input (it should not matter that you will loose it :-)) and add a track mark at the beginning and the end of a part of it ('cut out' a track of the whole). 2. While playing back this 'new' track, use the 'edit - move' function to move it out of it's originating track. 3. Play back to the originating track, enter the 'pause' mode and skip forward (>>) to the track mark that now represents the 'hole' you created before. 4. delete this track mark (T.MARK/REC) to re-combine the splitted originating track. 5. press the 'STOP' button and let the unit write out the system file. 6. eject the disc, re-insert it AND TAKE YOUR HEADPHONES OFF! 7. after trying to read the TOC for a while, the unit will display 'CANNOT PLAY OR RECORD', alternating with 'CREATE AUDIO FILE? YES - ENTER NO - CANCEL'. 8. Press STOP/CANCEL! Now you rendered your disc unusable by the unit, but it will still be read- and playable by SonicStage via USB connection! This will be your last ressort to still get your recordings from it! You may believe that I was really pissed off when I first made this experience, but since I'm one of that 'we never give up' - style computer guys, I messed around with this a lot and made a funny discovery that finally enabled me to turn this bug into a real useful feature! I'd be really interested now, if this works with other HiMD units too - so please some of you, try out the following procedure and post your experiences - it's similar to the one I described before, but with a really surprising result (including a fully usable disc): 1. Take any recording made from line/mic input (it should not just be one of your most precious ones for the first try :-)) and add a track mark at the beginning and the end of a part of it ('cut out' a track of the whole). 2. While playing back this 'new' track, use the 'edit - move' function to move it out of it's originating track (best, you move it into another group). 5. press the 'STOP' button and let the unit write out the system file. 6. connect the unit to your PC, launch SonicStage and open the 'Transfer' Window. 7. give the NEW track (that one you 'cut out' a title (optional) 8. transfer the NEW track to 'My Library' (only ONCE, and DO NOT TOUCH THE ORIGINATING TRACKS. 9. Press the unit's STOP/CANCEL button ('EJECT DISC OK' will show up) and disconnect it from your PC. 10. For the following 4 steps, it is essential that the unit will NOT write the system file to disc in between for any reason (weak battery, STOP-button depressed accidentially, playback till the end of disc etc): 11. Play back the first ORIGINATING track, enter the 'pause' mode and skip forward (>>) to the track mark that now represents the 'hole' you created before by cutting out the uploaded track. 12. delete this track mark (T.MARK/REC) to re-combine the splitted originating track. 13. While still in PAUSE mode, skip forward (>>) to the beginning track mark of the track you recently cut out and uploaded to your PC. 14. erase this track ('MENU (for 2 seconds) -> EDIT -> ERASE -> title symbol -> OK') (confirm the 'Track From PC - Delete?' message too). 15. press the 'STOP' button and let the unit write out the system file. 16. The disc should still be usable by the unit!!! (eject and re-insert to confirm) Logically, the disc should now contain the initial recording with a gap just where you cut out the now uploaded track before... ...but if you listen to this recording, you will surprisingly notice, that IT STILL SOUNDS LIKE IT HAS NEVER BEEN TOUCHED - THERE IS NOTHING MISSING! The original line/mic recording is still complete, and it is STILL UPLOADABLE by SonicStage as well as any part of it you cut out again and again and again following the above procedure! So, I hope this may be useful for some of you and I'd really appreciate to know if it works with other units too (perhaps even the 2nd-gen ones??)) - or if just I made "the luky punch" with my particular MZ-NH600 all alone -? Cheers & Beers Killroy