soul&folk

So attenuation is ONLY used when your in the face of extreme volumes? Otherwise it is best to not attenuate? Even if that means the gain on the preamp will be quite low in order to avoid clipping? As I think about the concert I recorded, my thought was to move the mics much closer to the stage, even if that would require attenuation and then boosting at the preamp. Al that was in order to avoid getting that slightly echo-y sound.

can you offer some help as to how to choose between a- attenuating the volume at the mic end and then adding gain at the preamp vs. b- no attenuation and a lower gain at the preamp

good stuff! great link!

thanks for responding 1) the mics were on a T bar mic stand in an XY pattern, above the heads of those seated, right next to where I was seated. It's hard for me to know if I was hearing that "room" sound from memory. 2) I wasn't using the attenuation or the low cut filter. I'd like to learn more about when I should consider using them. Any advice will be helpful

Hi, I recorded a concert last week. While it wasn't with a MD, I'm certain that this question is for this forum. I used 2 superlux s241 mics, each one was sent to a Studio Projects vtb-1 preamp, and then the line-outs went via a Y cable into the line-in of a zoom H2. The room was carpeted, about 80 feet square, and the ceiling was about 10 feet, paneled walls. I had the mics about 30 feet from the performers who were coming through a PA system, but some were also using their own amps and the feeding them to the PA, and the percussionist wasn't mic'd at all. I had my eyes on the levels of the H2 th entire time, Whenever the level approached 0db, I lowered the preamps one small notch. All in all the sound is very nice. BUT I thing I could have done better. The volume is a bit lower than I would have liked, and there is a "Somewhat distant" sound to it. I'm thinking that I should have been closer to the performers, and then if need be, turned the preamps down a bit more. Is that correct?

Check out this link. Someone named Skip Hunt has been experimenting with the onboard mics and comparing it to using a Sennheiser ME66 shotgun mic at various settings (I believe he explained somewhere that the second test was recorded at a two foot distance, and the others were closer) check it out EDIT: Hey! I just noticed that skip hunt just became a member and is reading this thread right now! small world...

For $200 plus about $50 for a 4GB SD card, you can now record live in high quality (24 bit WAV format) for 4 hours straight or way more in mp3 format, and then upload via USB to your computer. Has a line in, mic in if you want to use your own mics (and yes you can adjust the volume when you record), metronome for musicians, can record in 90 degree stereo, 120 degree, or even 360 for surround sound. This is the bomb! I just got one and I'm quite pleased!! But they are very lightweight as compared to a solid rugged minidisc recorder. Check it out and a lively discussion going on right here: http://www.oreillynet.com/digitalmedia/blo...rder_detai.html I'm still keeping my minidisc recorder, but I wonder how often I'm going to be using it any more... You can order it online from B&H, Sweetwater as well as J&R to name a few

Thanks for explaining this and pointing out the rolls preamp/mixer. That's very helpful information!!! BTW, if you look at the specs on that preamp, it says phantom power is only at 18VDC. In their FAQs they explain that most condenser mics no longer require 48VDC, it's more about the currect current than the volts. I just thought people need to know about that before they run to buy one of these that it might not work for all of their mics? Guitarfxr, what has your experience been with this unit and compatibility with condenser mics?

I found that shure cable in an "as new" return sale from B&Hfor just $30 including shipping. We'll see if it's a major volume boost.... I already had the sennheiser mic and the youth group I work for has a few sm5m mics. I recently received a catalogue from B&H and they had a very simlar item for only $20. Yo might want to go with that. Here it is Just wondering, for interview purposes, wouldn't you rather have an sm58, and not the sm57?

KG, please check this out, specifically the 10th paragraph As you can see, they are saying that this cable will boost the volume up a bit, so if they're right, it can't hurt. Also, I have tried the cable that came with the Nady on my mono dynamic mic (sennheiser e835) and it recorded to 2 channels. Go figure... You're probably right about losing the protection once the cable is unbalanced. That must be why both the Shure and the Nady cable are both only 18 inches long.

this cable also has a transformer that changes the impedence from low impedence to high. I think it's designed for exactly this purpose. Please keep me posted if you learn more about this. In the meantime, I think I'm going ahead and ordering one of these and will be using it a week from now for interviews. I'll let you know how it works out.

Trying to really get to the bottom of this, as I keep reading on different places on the web that the signal would be weaker without some sort of boost, I compared the sound clips from the nady mic (which is a condenser mic that has a battery inside) when just talking into it, to the sound clips of the sennheiser e835 (dynamic unpowered mic). There is a slight difference in volume. But nothing that significant, I don't think, that it would be noticeable. I think that if you keep the mic close enough to the one speaking, it compensates just fine. It also has almost no noise from handling the mic. Just to know for myself, I'm going to still do the following experiment... I've got a studio projects vtb1 preamp at home. While this can't work for my needs at conventions, since it doesn't work on batteries so I wouldn't be able to walk around a crowd of people doing interviews, I will still record the sennheiser going through it and see if it's a major difference. I'll report back. I've heard about battery packs sold from a number of dealers. If I see a drastic difference, I suppose I'll take the plunge. But I have a feeling it might be more hype than reality. We'll see. EDIT: Just learned about the following option. Sounds like it might be the perfect thing to do for interviews. Just use an sm58 or my sennheiser e835 with this cable.

You must be making some sort of mistake. Why does the Sennheiser e835 record just fine? Isn't that also a balanced mic? Just to be sure, I tried it right now once again, and there's no issues at all... What I used was the cable that came from the Nady. It's a cable that has an XLR female end (designed to pick up a stereo signal from the mic) and the other end is a TRS miniplug. Would that be the device you're talking about? This one's only 2 feet long. I looked it up on the web and I see that they're available in a few lengths for less than $15.

That would certainly work, however since the exact direction of the mics is concealed by the mic's screen, it would be hard to keep it pointed evenly the whole time. Besides, I already discovered that the nady cm2s is very sensitive to handling and it would not be the right one for interviews for that reason alone. So would an sm58 serve well for interviews? (I could always make our roady-techy guy drive to our warehouse and pull one out and see for myself, but I'd like to avoid that if I can. (sometimes he doesn't like to work too hard. :-) ) EDIT: I remembered that I've got a dynamic mic myself right here in the house. I plugged in my sehheiser e835 and checked it out. Perfect! By the way, I used the cable from the nady xlr to stereo miniplug and it recorded on both channels!! So now I'm really a happy camper. Where have I been all these years? Minidiscs will do so much so well!!!

I just bought a mz-n707. I see that my old JVC CD deck has coaxial digital out. What do I need to do to send that to the optical in of the MD recorder? A certain cable? Some sort of converter? Will SCMS prevent me from doing this?

Well wouldn't you know, I needed to drive for an hour tonight, getting someone from the airport. I set up the mz-n707 with the nady cm2s and turned on the radio. I had the earphones in my ear to monitor the mic positioning and actually held the mic the entire ride. I learned a lot in that hour and even more when I played it back. You are very right that I will hear the engine revving up (never knew it was so loud until now) and any slight movement of the mic or even hands sliding along the steering wheel, is picked up. I'm sure that those issues will not go away - but then again, that's the way it should be - the mic picks up what it's hearing. I suppose when I drive, the mind filters out the car sounds. I suppose there's some sort of study that can prove that. this is good information in general to think about when recording live sound. It may sound one way to the listener in the room, but the mics might just be hearing much more. I suppose that's where mic positioning and choosing the right mic matters. Some mics will likely pick up less of certain frequencies.... Well I didn't get to try recording the guitar and vocals tonight since I ended up driving to the airport, but I've certainly had my recording lesson for the day. There's no better way to learn than to jump in and experiment. Theories and discussion is great but first-hand knowledge is so much more. That I determined right away. A lapel mic won't work for this situations as the interview is going to be back and forth between the reporter and the people he's interviewing. Do you think the ms907 will also pick up a lot of noise while being handled? What do you think about using the good old sm58 for the interviews? Could I use the cable use the cable from the nady stereo mic and attach it to the sm58? Will it only produce sound on the left channel? (I could live with that too, BTW)

Ah, but I also have a minidisc deck that has optical out. On another thread I mentioned that the youth group I work for has a weekly radio program. Each week they give us a copy of the program on minidisc. We bought a Sony MDS-JE500 and together with my Edirol UA-25 we've been able to send it to Audacity as a WAV file. So now we've got the mobility of the mz-n707 and the advantages of the deck as well. I just have to remember to record in a format that the older model deck can play. ---Woo hoo!!! As I was writing, the mic arrived. I just tested it and I am already happy with it! Looking forward to sitting on my couch and trying it out on acoustic guitar and vocals!

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. While I'm on the topic of choosing mics, the youth group I'm working with is thinking of using my mz-n707 to do interviews with at our conventions and later put those sound clips into our radio show. Is there a not too expensive mic that would work well for this? Is the Nady mic I just got overkill? I mean who needs stereo for an interview?

I realize I won't be getting perfect fidelity. Here's why I want to do this. I'm often driving in my car and hear a song that I want to remember or a part of a song or even part of some background music for an ad. I write songs and I collect ideas and this would help me a lot. Good fidelity would be great, because it would help me remember the feeling of what I heard, but not the main thing in this context. As for watching the road, I'm actually typing this as I drive.... Just kidding! I was considering getting a different stereo mic from the same people and clipping the mics to the headrest. did you see this one or how about this one?

I've got a Nady CM-2s arriving today that I snatched up on ebay for $50. There's someone here who's name starts with "King" who had good things to say about it. So even though I was originally looking for a Sony ECM-MS907, I got this instead. I'd like to have a second mic for while I'm driving and listening to the radio. I want to easily grab what I'm hearing (usually jazz or 70's rock) in as good quality as I can, and I'd like it to be something that's easy to set up. Maybe something like this held on to the stick shift with a rubber band? Do you think it would pick up too much noise from the vibrations of the car? Do you think it will give me any sort of decent stereo image?

Thank you. That is clear good information. Much appreciated.

I'd like to know the best way to copy my cds to my mz-n707 I've got an Edirol UA-25 interface. Will that help keep things in the digital realm? Do I even need to use it to do what I'm trying to do? Which cables do I need? Perhaps just a basic RCA cable and then a Y cable to go from the RCA line-outs of the CD player and into the line-in jack of the MD unit? EDIT: It just occured to me that since I also have an MD Deck (MDS-JE500) that has an optical line-in, perhaps I could play the cd from my computer and send the signal out through the edirol ua-25 and into the deck with the optical cable? Anyone tried something like this? Is there a CD unit that I could purchase used that has an optical line-out that would make this even easier?

I'd like to hear about what others are using for recording live with their minidiscs. Please try to explain why you use the particular mic and in what situation. Have there been any surprises you've had using that mic? Thanks.

thanks. thats just what I needed to know. As for the mic, I'll be buying 2 mics. One of them I'm almost sure will be the Sony ECM-MS907. That's for when I'll be sitting on a couch and playing the guitar. I might just bring it to some gigs I do with a musical group I perform with. I've seen this done with this exact unit and mic successfully by someone else recording us. If you'd like to hear how the Sony ECM-MS907 did on a recent rehearsal I had with my group, go to my website and check out the song at the bottom of the page called Gotta Get to the Minyan on Time. (as for all the other songs there, most were done as a way of learning songwriting and home recording. I know there's much room left for improvement on most of them. None of them are the final version. I'm waiting to hit 20 songs and then I plan on going back to the beginning. But feel free to download them if you like them. most are in hebrew though) But I was asking about the other one. A mic for quick on the go recording - almost treating the unit like a voice recorder. I'm a songwriter and I often hear a part of a song or even background music to a radio ad and want to remember it for future reference. Sometimes I'll be at my desk and a musical thought comes to mind. I'd like to be able to just click and record. Of course I'd prefer decent quality sound especially if I'm trying to capture something from the radio as I'm driving - perhaps it was a bass line that I want to remember, or perhaps it was something about the overall feel of the song. Good quality recording would help me remember what grabbed me as I heard it the first time. So this mic doesn't have to be stereo but I suppose it would be nice if it is. I've seen tiny mics that resemble pins such as this then there's the stereo ones like this I'd like it small for portability but also want it to have decent sound. Maybe a lavalier mic??? Another usage I might end up using this for is to record lectures.

I bought a mz-n707 off ebay and it just arrived the battery it came with (nc-wmaa 1.2v 700 mAh) has clearly been sitting around too long and is corroded. What is the smartest replacement for this - does it have to be an exact match? what does mAh stand for and must that be 700? must I replace it with nickel cadmium only? -------------------------- what's the right mic to buy if I want to just record on the run - ie. keep it in my car and quickly record something off the radio - or have in my pocket and quickly pop it out to record a musical thought?