bisebaer Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hi all, One of my hobbies is mechanical music, and I always use MD (now MZ-NH900) to record all kinds of barrel, fair and dance organs. I'm now using a Sony 907 mic, which gives me very good results, but the only thing that I miss, is more bass. I suppose this is caused by the frequency response range (or how do you call that - I'm not an expert :smile: ) of the 907; therefore, I was considering the 957, for its higher frequency response - but would this give better results? Or should I look for something else? My budget is about 250€ (ca.280 USD). Many thanks in advance! Best wishes, Björn Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Your problem is the fact that your microphone cuts off the lower bass tones, and for an organ recording that's a shame. For your budget you should be able to get a fantastic microphone, and you should definitely look beyond Sony--even the ECM 957 only goes down to 50Hz, which is an octave above the bottom note of a piano and more above the lowest sub-bass tones of a church organ. Some other reputable manufacturers are Audio Technica, AKG, Shure, Schoeps and (probably out of your price range) Earthworks and Rode. Look at www.soundprofessionals.com to start--they do ship to Europe, and they have a mic called a 907 that has far better specs than Sony. But if you're not concerned with stealth, then you should also look at pro audio stores near you if there are any. You want a wide frequency response --20 to 20,000 Hz -- and a high signal-to-noise ratio. Do some Google searching, like [ Sony ECM 957 specs] , to compare. You have a one-point stereo mic, but you might also consider getting a pair of mics that you can separate, which will give you a rounder, more natural sound. If you want to look at specs for extremely expensive pro microphones, try www.oade.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted December 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Many thanks for the advice; I visited soundprofessionalscom and they have a lot of very interesting stuff, but I'm really getting confused now ... Someone told me that - for fair organ recordings - I really should use a unidirectional microphone, but is this right? FYI: I often record in open air, but from time to time also in organ halls etc. - but mostly there are people around, so I don't want lots of their talk on my recording. Should I get a unidirectional then? And is unidirectional the same as cardioid? I'd also rather have one single microphone, since I need to carry it around on trips. The following models are on my 'interested in' list: - SP-SPSM-4F, but I dislike the idea of having to use a battery module to get most out of the mic - SP-PSM-3: sounds most interesting to me, esp. with the 20-20000 range; but what is the actual difference with the SP-ECM-MS907? And why is this one more expensive than the SP-PSM-4, which has a selectable pattern? OK, shoot me if I ask too many questions, but I'm more or less a newbie (bought the ECM-MS907 on advice of someone else) ... Many thanks! Björn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted December 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Hmm, someone also pointed me towards the Audio Technica AT825; I know someone who is offering it for sale second hand for about 250$ ... I know, my budget is ca.250€ - but this doesn't mean it has to be spent all at once ... I just want a handy mic, which gives slightly better results than my ECM-MS907 ... Once again, many thanks in advance! Björn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 The AT 825 looks ideal for your purposes, and that sounds like an excellent price if you can afford it. You're right: cardioids are unidirectional. Cardioid means heart-shaped: imagine the microphone at the bottom point of a heart, picking up sounds within that heart shape. So it would exclude sounds behind you and off to the side, which would help if there's a lot of conversation around you. About battery modules: The MD provides a tiny bit of power, plug-in power, to a microphone in the mic jack. Battery modules (or batteries that go inside some of the mic models you're looking at) provide more power, which makes any mic able to withstand louder sounds. As for the SPSM-4, 116dB is nearly as loud as a jet airplane takeoff, so it should be fine without a battery box for music. 130db is a jackhammer. I have no idea what the difference is, if any, between those two Sound Pros PSM-3 and EMC-MS907. They may simply have renumbered the same microphone so that people searching the internet for the Sony would also find their 907. You could email and ask them--they've got great customer service. But they are both omnidirectional, not cardioid. From the specs, it does seem like the PSM-4 is the better deal since you can switch between omni and cardioid. It's possible there's a more expensive microphone capsule in the PSM-3, but again, you should email and ask. If you do, it would be great if you could post their reply here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted December 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Hmm, upon close reading, I suppose the PSM-4 is only a mono microphone? Then I would need two mics, and that's not really what I want. Besides, I noticed that in 'cardioid' mode, the PSM-4 also has a range from 50-18000, which is not that much above my ECM-MS907. Perhaps I should go for the AT825, but can I connect this mic without any problem to my minidisc? I'm also afraid the AT825 might be overkill, but on the other hand: it's kind of an investment ... But I now see that the range of the AT825 is 30-20000, while the PSM-3 has 20-20000. I suppose this will make some difference, or not? Anyway: many, many thanks for the help!!! I'm sure I'll find something, one day or another :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted December 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 As expected, SP pointed me towards the PSM-3. However, I'm lucky, since a friend of mine (who plays the drums in a band) is lending me his Rode NT4, which I will try Monday. If I'm pleased, he's willing me to sell it at a friendly price ... but first try and see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 So that's why the PSM-4 didn't show up under the list of Stereo microphones but did show up when I searched the site! I should have realized. You would need a connector cable from the AT825's XLR connectors to the minidisc's mini stereo plug. Sound Professionals has it listed as an accessory with that mic. The bottom note of a piano is 27Hz, so 30 is pretty close. Search for Rode NT4 on this board--it seems people are thrilled with them. It's supposed to be a great mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted January 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 The second hand AT825 apparently was used with an MD unit (someone travelling in Hungary, but the mic is OK ;-) ) since it comes with a special connector cable. However, I read the specs of the Rode NT4 and they seem to be 'slightly' better than those of the AT825. I read some reviews of the NT4 and some user experiences on this forum, and I'm getting really curious about the results. The only thing that worries me is another post in this subforum about excessive hum when using a Hi-MD unit on AC power with a powered mic - but I'll have to try. I'll let you know what my final decision will be ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 You get the hum when the MD is powering the mic. I wouldn't even try using something like an NT4 [which is made to work optimally with 48V phantom power but also works with P24 and P12 systems, and shows a rating for 9V usage as well] without an external power supply, which would bypass the hum problem altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted January 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 I'm a little confused: I don't have an external power supply, but the NT4 does use an 'internal' 9V battery. Will this prevent the hum problem or not? My friend has used the NT4 (only with the 9V battery) with a Sony MZ-N900, and never complained about hum, but I don't know if there were similar hum problems as with the Hi-MD units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 If it has an internal 9V battery, it needs no external power supply. The hum comes from powering a mic directly from the MD/HiMD itself, while plugged in with an AC adapter. You should not get hum using the NT4, in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted January 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Thanks, dex Otaku, that's a relief ... I'll let you know how the recording next Monday has gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajong Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 You get the hum when the MD is powering the mic. I wouldn't even try using something like an NT4 [which is made to work optimally with 48V phantom power but also works with P24 and P12 systems, and shows a rating for 9V usage as well] without an external power supply, which would bypass the hum problem altogether.←I use the NT4. It has an internal 9v battery powersupply. There is no hum whatsoever when using it with a MD, fortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisebaer Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Indeed, no hum ... and the NT4 is a great mic. I did my first recording with it yesterday, and the result was quite amazing - at least, compared with my ECM-MS907 Much more depth, and more details, esp. in the higher tones.I had to fiddle a little with the mic sensitivity settings on my MD-unit, but it worked out fine.Just a question: will it make a noticeable difference if I use mic pre-amps and then record via the line-in instead of using the NT4 directly in the mic-input of my MD-unit? If so, can anyone recommend me a reasonably priced mic pre-amp (or set of pre-amps, since it's for a stereo mic)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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