Just ordered the MZ-RH910 and a ECM-M907

[geestring]

a MZ- RH910 and a ecmm907

good setup for recording?

is it a good minidisc player?

i dont know much about minidisc....

[A440]

Yes, it's a good unit. You'll be amazed at what the little gizmo can do.

As for recording, try your setup and the folks here will try to help you if you have any problems.

When your unit arrives and you get a chance to play with it, take a look at this:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showt...993entry49993

Edited February 15, 2006 by A440

[geestring]

anyone find it hard to buy mini disc players? even at the sony store?

[dex Otaku]

The ECM-MS907 is a rather limited-fidelity microphone for the money. You can find much better mics for the same or less online at places like soundprofessionals.com.

What are you planning on recording with the unit?

And yes, HiMD and MD units are hard to find here. Wal-Mart and TheSource [previously Radioshack] sell units, but rarely stock anything but downloaders [units that have no line or microphone inputs]. Otherwise no one stocks them, though they can order them in if one wishes to pay 30-50% more than they would if buying online.

[geestring]

awesome thread... about the attenuator.. I would assume that the MD player would have some sort of adjustment istead of buying a seperate volume control?

i want to record concerts.

i ordered the player from www.minidisc-canada.com wanted something inside canada..

hmm maybe i can still get a different microphone there if they havent shipped it out yet.. check it out... what do you recommened

[dex Otaku]

Perhaps A440 or someone could make some recommendations. I use SP-TFB-2 mics [soundprofessionals kind that actually go in your ears] and have no complaints about them.

[A440]

the MD player would have some sort of adjustment istead of buying a seperate volume control?

i want to record concerts.

The MD player does have a level control, but the problem is that its preamp is before the level control and overloads with loud music. Sad, true and easily curable with the attenuator or a battery module.

Minidisc-Canada's microphone selection isn't ideal.

These gumdrop-sized mics

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

plus an attenuator via Mic-in will give you very nice results. Get them with clips so you can clip them to a shirt, hat, girlfriend, etc.

Lately I have been using them with a Microphone Madness Battery Module through Line-In

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

and getting even better results.

Look at the Live Recordings Gallery above to hear some MD recordings with various microphone types.

Edited February 15, 2006 by A440

[geestring]

those look pretty cool.. in the sense that they're easy to sneak in... and can double as ear plugs?

hey dex.. you live canada im assuming? did you have to pay a bunch of brokerage feees when ordering from soundprofessionals?

[dex Otaku]

hey dex.. you live canada im assuming? did you have to pay a bunch of brokerage feees when ordering from soundprofessionals?

I ordered the soundpros mic through minidisc-canada, actually.

[geestring]

they must not sell it there anymore then./.. crap

one question..

can these small ear microphones match the quality of the sony one that i have purchased? its a lot bigger... and expensive

[A440]

The Soundpro BMC-2 are very easy to sneak in, smaller than your pinky nail and on very thin wires. I drop the cord down my shirt, flip the mics over the top button, and pull them out and clip them to my collar when the lights go down.

Just thought of something, though. Since you're in Canada try Church Audio.

http://stores.ebay.com/CHURCH-AUDIO

Contact him (Chris Church) and ask for stereo BINAURAL mics, not cardioids (which are directional and a lot less forgiving for general use). I have some small binaurals he made, which look like the ones on his Stereo-Y mic, not the bigger binaurals he is selling now. He must still have those smaller mics and could wire them on a cord instead of the Y attachment.

The Y looks very scientific but it's not a good idea. Mics plugged in to the unit, not separated by a cord, tend to pick up whirring noises from the unit. And it's harder to hide unit-plus-mic than it is to leave the unit in your pocket and clip the mics someplace unobtrusive. Also, for the best stereo realism you want to separate the two mics by the width of your ears.

My Church Audio binaurals don't have clips, which is why I don't use them much, but I see that he has clips now for the cardioids, so I'm guessing he could put them on binaurals too.

Edited February 15, 2006 by A440

[geestring]

so these should be at par with the sony 907...?

[A440]

No. They're much better.

[dex Otaku]

can these small ear microphones match the quality of the sony one that i have purchased? its a lot bigger... and expensive

Generally speaking the mini omnis will give better results for concert recording than the Sony M/S stereo mic. That said, the MS907 is perfectly suited for many other applications.

I'll note that the SP-BMC-2s that A440 mentioned use the same elements as the SP-TFB-2s I have. The main difference between them is the "case" style.

[geestring]

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHURCH-AUDIO-PROFESSIO...1QQcmdZViewItem

is this what im looking for?

[A440]

Those look much bigger and bulkier than the ones I have. Look at his stealth cardioids,

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREO-CARDIOID-MICROP...1QQcmdZViewItem

and look at his stereo Y binaural mics,

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHURCH-AUDIO-STEREO-Y-...1QQcmdZViewItem

and imagine those small binaural mics wired like the stealth cardioids. As far as I know, it's basically one guy making the mics, and so you could get in touch with him and ask him for a price. The Sound Professionals might or might not be cheaper with shipping costs, so you could compare.

Edited February 15, 2006 by A440

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Hi there my Pro binural mics do have clips on them, also my new cardioids as you mentioned have clips on them. All mics I make can be purchased with or with out clips at no extra cost.

Chris Church

Church-Audio

The Soundpro BMC-2 are very easy to sneak in, smaller than your pinky nail and on very thin wires. I drop the cord down my shirt, flip the mics over the top button, and pull them out and clip them to my collar when the lights go down.

Just thought of something, though. Since you're in Canada try Church Audio.

http://stores.ebay.com/CHURCH-AUDIO

Contact him (Chris Church) and ask for stereo BINAURAL mics, not cardioids (which are directional and a lot less forgiving for general use). I have some small binaurals he made, which look like the ones on his Stereo-Y mic, not the bigger binaurals he is selling now. He must still have those smaller mics and could wire them on a cord instead of the Y attachment.

The Y looks very scientific but it's not a good idea. Mics plugged in to the unit, not separated by a cord, tend to pick up whirring noises from the unit. And it's harder to hide unit-plus-mic than it is to leave the unit in your pocket and clip the mics someplace unobtrusive. Also, for the best stereo realism you want to separate the two mics by the width of your ears.

My Church Audio binaurals don't have clips, which is why I don't use them much, but I see that he has clips now for the cardioids, so I'm guessing he could put them on binaurals too.

[geestring]

hey church... as A440 said.. do you have smaller binaural like those cardioids.. with the Y attachment?

[geestring]

a440 i might get those binaural ones from soundprofessional...

[A440]

Chris, before geestring takes the plunge:

Do you still make the smaller binaurals, the ones that are the size size as your stealth cardioids?

[geestring]

I already bought the ones from soundprofessionals...

church said he didnt make them...

I can just use a cheap attenuator for the setup... and it will be fine?

[A440]

You can indeed. Try it and see.

[geestring]

how exactly do the mics fit in your ears? they just get stuck there like ear buds?

[A440]

If you got BMC-2, they don't go in your ears. You clip them to a shirt collar, hat, glasses, etc. I hope you got them with clips--add clips to your order if you didn't.

Dex has the TFB-2, which use the same itty-bitty mics mounted on a holder that hangs over your ear like some sports headphones.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2

He likes them because it sounds nearly exactly like what he hears. I prefer the BMC-2 because the funnel shape of the outer ear isn't filtering any sound out, and because it's easier to just clip them anywhere. Either way, we're both happy with the sound we get.

Just separate the mics about the width of your ears, make sure your MD isn't overloading (with the attenuator, usually turned all the way UP because it still attenuates) and you'll get good results.

[geestring]

where do you usually put your bmcs?

where do you usually put your bmcs?

Oh and I got the clips that come with the mics...

[A440]

Glad you got the clips. I usually wear a dark shirt and clip them to the shirt collar, pointing left and right. Higher up would be better--some people wear a hat and clip them to the hat with the wires running behind your ears, some people clip them to their eyeglasses. I do the collar because at a concert I don't move my torso as much as my head--even omnidirectional mics will change the stereo image if you swing them around--and, more important to me, for stealth.

Look at greenmachine's DIY mic thread (pinned in Live Recording) to see how he attaches them to a pair of glasses.

[dex Otaku]

Dex has the TFB-2, which use the same itty-bitty mics mounted on a holder that hangs over your ear like some sports headphones.

Actually, the TFB-2s are mounted in the ends of two round soft plastic hooks, which fit inside your pinnae. The mics themselves actually go right in front of your ear canals, and with some experience can be used as mild earplugs while recording [ideal for me with hyperacusis].

It's also possible to wear headphones over top of the mics, too, not that that is useful for recording, but it does mean that with circumaural 'phones you can stop to review what you're recording without removing the mics. I use a cheap [but surprisingly decent sounding for $48CAD] pair of folding Koss UR-29s for this [and for mixing at live shows].

It's very easy to stealth with these. If you wire yourself correctly [i pin the cables to my collar and run them around the back through my clothes; that with my long hair they're invisible] he majority of people don't even notice you're wearing them. Those who do notice nearly always assume they're earphones of some kind.

It's definitely a unique way of recording [after all, effectively you are the microphone] but I do not recommend it for just anyone to try. When I make soundscape recordings I usually go sit somewhere and meditate for 20 minutes. I have the patience to make myself comfortable and not move, basically, for at least that long. This keeps the [stereo/binaural] perspective of the recording consistent from beginning to end.

I've made recordings of myself walking, and later made the mistake of listening to one while walking [and, uh, chemically-altered shall we say]. It made me unable to walk, because it was realistic enough to encourage that actually feeling of immersion that is honestly so rare in most recordings. [i also love Aaron Ximm of quietamerican.org's recordings for this reason, though again - don't listen to them while walking, if you can help it.]

Um. Yeah.

[geestring]

just got my mics... should leave the "cushons" on.. or wind screen or whatever you call them?

how do you know which is left and right mics?

[A440]

The windscreens are for recording outdoors in windy situations. Otherwise you don't need to use them. Save them, they'll come in handy.

Put in a disc, plug in the mics, plug in your headphones (make sure they're on the correct ears), push Record and Pause simultaneousy, gently tap or stroke one mic and you'll find out which channel it is. Mark it, put a label on it, put a piece of tape around one cord--up to you.

Edited February 21, 2006 by A440

[geestring]

also i noticed that when i was walking around with them on my collar... it was very sensitive...i guess it wisae not to make any movements?

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Send your mics back to me and i will put clips on them for you

FREE of charge but you have to pay for return shipping if you dont have my address Pm me

Chris Church

The Soundpro BMC-2 are very easy to sneak in, smaller than your pinky nail and on very thin wires. I drop the cord down my shirt, flip the mics over the top button, and pull them out and clip them to my collar when the lights go down.

Just thought of something, though. Since you're in Canada try Church Audio.

http://stores.ebay.com/CHURCH-AUDIO

Contact him (Chris Church) and ask for stereo BINAURAL mics, not cardioids (which are directional and a lot less forgiving for general use). I have some small binaurals he made, which look like the ones on his Stereo-Y mic, not the bigger binaurals he is selling now. He must still have those smaller mics and could wire them on a cord instead of the Y attachment.

The Y looks very scientific but it's not a good idea. Mics plugged in to the unit, not separated by a cord, tend to pick up whirring noises from the unit. And it's harder to hide unit-plus-mic than it is to leave the unit in your pocket and clip the mics someplace unobtrusive. Also, for the best stereo realism you want to separate the two mics by the width of your ears.

My Church Audio binaurals don't have clips, which is why I don't use them much, but I see that he has clips now for the cardioids, so I'm guessing he could put them on binaurals too.

[geestring]

no i got clips with them they still move has my shirt moves...

[A440]

Make sure they're not rubbing anything and the clip isn't rubbing against anything. On a shirt with a collar--not a T-shirt-there's a spot near your neck where there's space under the collar (for the clip) and the microphone sits on top of the collar and can't rub anything.

[geestring]

hey.. I followed the mic recording guides... Im practicing on my pc speakers with them on loud...

i have the radioshack attenuator...

its very quiet. I have the record volume at 20/30 ... If i turn the Attenuator to low does the mics become louder...?

that being said this is just my speakers not an actual concert... and I cant listen to how loud its recording during it. So can you give me an idea of what i should set everything..

I'm seeing nine inch nails this friday... so its somewhat bassy...

[A440]

The attenuator is a volume control. Turn it to its maximum, not its minimum. The higher the volume, the more comes through, just like if you were using it with headphones.

Also make sure you are plugged in to mic-in (red) and not line-in (white).

Is it possible to turn up your PC speakers enough to annoy the neighbors? The way to test is with real home-stereo speakers, or your TV blasting, not dinky little PC speakers.

NIN is going to be a challenge. I hadn't realized you were going for the true torture test right out of the box.

Depending on how close you are, they may be just too loud for your mics to handle. The attenuator can handle most loud music but not the kind of bass that makes your eardrums cave in. For something that loud, you are better off with a battery module like this one via Line-In, because it helps the mic handle a little more sheer volume. But it's probably too late for you to get it via mailorder in Canada.

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

So go with reduced expectations but try this:

Mic-->Attenuator-->Mic-In. Turn the attenuator up to maximum and then back off by about 1/8 of a turn, just a hair.

You need to set the level manually (always). Press REC and PAUSE at the same time (display will blink), Nav/Menu (whatever it is on that unit), click the center button up (two notches?) to REC SET and press >, click down to REC Volume and press >, click to Manual and press >. It will start at 13/30. Push it up a bit to 16/30 (turn the wheel). Hide the unit in your pocket as you go in. Put it on HOLD. When you want to start recording, take it off HOLD and push Pause again (you might even be able to do it without taking out the unit) and the time display will start changing. If you have any light and no one's looking, try to take a look at the level meter and see that it's above the first dash (halfway) but well below the second one (overload).

Practice this process a few times at home--it becomes easier as you do it more often.

No guarantees. NIN is a tough one. But I did do a Metallica show like that and it came through.

[geestring]

heh yea...

uh i'm going through the fan club entrance for the sound check... they might be more tight with security... I got on inside pocket for my jacket... but if i do have to take it out to show them... do you think they'll go crazy over a "mp3 player".. ill have the mics clipped inside my shirt so those wont be found.

[dex Otaku]

But I did do a Metallica show like that and it came through.

Careful, A440 - we don't want any drummers starting lawsuits against you.

[Roamer]

I've seen Lars backstage signing live shows on tape. If it's for personal use, he doesn't mind.

[geestring]

ah they cancelled the nine inch nails show.. trents sick...

however i went to the MEtric concert tonight...

hmm the recording was somewhat quiet in my first recording even though it was reaching the second line and "overloading" I quickly stopped and turned it down... interupting a song..

hmm

[A440]

it was reaching the second line and "overloading" I quickly stopped and turned it down... interupting a song..

I can't seem to find any pix of the display while recording. The second line, if it's like my NHF800, is under the colon in the time, that is between 2 and 10 in 2:10. Is it possible you mistook the middle dash for the second one?

Also, is the attenuator turned all the way up to its max? And when you stopped and turned down, a) did you go through the whole routine to get Manual Volume again and exactly what did you turn down? the level on the machine? the volume knob on the attenuator? You should be turning down the level on the machine. But if you stopped and restarted without going through the menus to Manual Volume, you have no control.

You don't have to stop to lower the recording level. Just turn the wheel.

Edited March 5, 2006 by A440