Denecke AD20 and MZ-RH10 - gain settings?

[Mattias]

Hi all,

I have a Rode NT4, Denecke AD-20 and a Sony mz-rh10. I mostly record loud sound enviroments, like funk/soul/jazz bands etc.

What is preffered, a high setting on the gain nobs on the AD-20 and a lower setting att mz-rh10 or no gain at all on the AD-20 and a higer setting on the mz-rh10? Or a little gain on both?

[A440]

I haven't used the Denecke, but I would think you'd want to get your gain from the Denecke, since its preamp is likely to be higher quality (and, with a 9V battery, higher powered) than the RH10. A quick test--recording footsteps or something in a quiet room--would give you a definitive answer.

[dex Otaku]

What I would do: Set the recorder to unity [no gain, no attenuation, which is 18/30 using manual levels on both my NH700 and RH10] and then use the preamp to set the gain for the mic.

P.S. - side note - I got to use an NT4 a few weeks ago for the first time .. I was very impressed by it.

[Mattias]

Thanks for your replys!

Btw, should you always aim at having an optical line level setting about 18/30 on the mz-rh10? Does that give best sound quality? What if I have the line level at 10/30 or 25/30 as long the level meters on the mz-rh10 are in the "correct area", i.e. adjusting with the Denecke gain knobs.

I´ve heard that you get more noise if you increase the gain on the preamp. But it is maybe worse to increase the optical line level on the mz-rh10?

[dex Otaku]

Thanks for your replys!

Btw, should you always aim at having an optical line level setting about 18/30 on the mz-rh10? Does that give best sound quality? What if I have the line level at 10/30 or 25/30 as long the level meters on the mz-rh10 are in the "correct area", i.e. adjusting with the Denecke gain knobs.

I´ve heard that you get more noise if you increase the gain on the preamp. But it is maybe worse to increase the optical line level on the mz-rh10?

Sorry, I didn't note that the AD-20 is a preamp/ADC. I assumed you were talking about an outboard analogue [in and out] preamp.

Either way, the Denecke's preamp is probably better than the one in your HiMD. Use the HiMD as a straight recorder only; don't adjust anything on it.

I can't be absolutely sure [as I've never recorded using the optical in[ but the "optical line level" if not set to manual should basically mean unity gain [digitally]. To those of you who do recording with the optical in: please do correct me if I'm wrong. My point either way is to not adjust anything on the recorder, do everything with the preamp/ADC.

Ideally, if you're using the digital in on your recorder and that's coming from an adjustable preamp, you don't want the recorder to be processing the signal in any way whatsoever*. Attenuating what's coming in means losing something, and amplifying just means adding noise. Let the preamp/ADC do the work, and set your levels with the AD-20 so they look okay on the recorder's meters.

* - Yes, it's true that the recorder is always processing what's coming in since it resamples whatever is on the digital input. That's unavoidable, though.

[AllanH]

Hi

A few comments on NT4/AD20/RH10 setup - which I've used myself.

- make sure you use the XLR cable supplied with the NT4. The 3.5mini jack cable has pad resistors in the Mic plug which lowers the signal and degrades signal/noise ratio by about 10dB. (This was covered last year on these pages).

- in my opinion/experience there's no practical difference between the preamps on the HiMD and that in the AD20 in terms of self noise - but that probably isn't a concern if you're recording loudish music. I don't bother with the AD-20 any more - I just run the signal from the NT4 directly into the mic input, using a minijack signal cable with the pad resistors removed.

- follow the recommendations given by others - pick a mid range setting on the HiMD (18/30 say), then wind up the AD-20 to match the sound. If you use too much gain on the AD-20 it's possible to overload the pre-amp/ADC without noticing, and winding down the gain on the RH10 can't cure it. You'll notice when you download the tracks into an audio editor that you have lots of signal clipping and so a totally ruined recording. Its not always to hear this listening over headphones during recording. (I think this is called 'brickwalling').

- you may find it helpful to fit a knob onto the end of each of the gain pots on the AD-20, with colour coded caps (red = right, black = left). This makes it much easier to check and adjust the levels.

Good luck

[Mattias]

Doesn´t the Denecke AD-20 improve the sound quality at all? Isn´t it a much better A/D converter and preamp than the mz-rh10 mic-in can offer? I havent´t compared yet, maybe I should....

I´ve just buyed the AD-20 because I´ve heard so much people talking positive about it.

Where can I get a "minijack signal cable with the pad resistors removed"?

[AllanH]

Hi

At least 2 routes:

Find someone to sell you a lead from a Sony ECM-959 microphone. This has a 5 pin XLR on one end and a 3.5 stereo mini jack on the other.

or

Make up the cable youself. You'll need to be able to solder, and get hold of an XLR-5 female connector and a 3.5mm minijack-to-twin phono plugs lead.

Then

1 Cut off the phono plugs from the minijack lead (remember which was right and which was left).

2. Strip back the cut ends to reveal the screen and signal cable core from each. Twist the screens together. Connect to pin 1 of the XLR.

3 Connect the signal core (left) to pin 2 of the XLR

4 Connect the signal ccre (right) to pin 4 of the XLR

5 Using thin wire links, connect pins 3 and 5 of the XLR to pin 1.

Lastly, connect XLR pin 1 to the screen tag of the XLR.

Its not as hard as it sounds, but you do need a fine soldering iron and the ability to strip fine wines cleanly and tor a short length (to fit them into the XLR)

or

You may be able to get a specialist dealer to make a cable up for you.