Which Combo is Best?

[minispecs]

Equipment I have at my disposal:

R37

R700 (no good results with this puppy...made me sad to have totally ruined recordings)

RH10

in ear binaurals from Sound Pros (I think they're regular sensitivity)

Battery Box with Bass rolloff switch and level sliders

Radio Shack attenuator

I'm going to record symphonic music and then most likely piano and guitar and vocals. What are y'all's recommendations for level settings out of 30 on the RH10? I don't think I want to go backwards to my R37 but I only have experience recording well (rock concerts where distraction works in my favor to switch discs) on that older unit, with the batt box and bass rolloff, or by just adjusting the level to a lower setting (goodness I wish I could remember my settings from the days of 2002). I don't want to switch Discs so I thought perhaps I'd do HiSP on the RH10 on an 80 minute disc. Is Hi-SP good enough or should I bring two 1GB discs and do PCM and a disc swap?

What lineup of the mics and other options/boxes work best for this situation, the most stealthy with the best results? I've gone to the gallery to see if anyone has symphonic and what their equipment and levels might be, but I've come up emptyhanded or else I'm just missing something :-). If I've done my homework, it should be in-ear binaurals->attenuator->RH10 mic in with the attenuator turned all the way up? Or is that overkill for the symphony...which could get *almost* as loud as a rock show I'd imagine! I'll be in the fourth row, not the best for sound of course, but I want my first live recording on my RH10 to go easily :-)

I'm going to bring the AA battery and extra discs probably. Any other warnings or thoughts to think of? I know the writing to disc process takes forever on HiMD so I'd like to do one disc if possible. My biggest thing is I want to set it and forget it I'd say. I can test with my stereo I suppose, but I'd love your input!

Thanks!

minispecs

Edited March 26, 2006 by minispecs

[A440]

Definitely use the RH10, for both capacity and uploading capability.

Symphonies aren't as loud as rock shows by a long shot. For the symphony use RH10 and just go direct from the binaurals to Mic-In. Low sensitivity and manual levels, perhaps 15/30 to 18/30 (unless they're playing the 1812 Overture). Hi-SP should be pretty good with a regular MD. But if you have two 1GB Hi-MD discs, you could use PCM, since there's bound to be an intermission before 90 minutes.

Careful about program rustling, seats creaking, heavy breathing--you'll hear it all.

Is the piano/gtr/vocals amplified or unamplified? Amplified, use Mic-Battery box--Line In, unamplified try Mic-Attenuator (all the way up)-Line-in. 20/30 is my benchmark for either method.

Try with your stereo first. You probably play classical music louder at home than it actually is in a concert hall. Also, see if you get a glimpse at the RH10 level display during the shows--or even during the tuning up at the symphony, when everyone is turning off their cell phones and no one's going to notice your particular gadget.

[minispecs]

Thanks so much A440! I enjoy the tip to check levels during the tuning, as that's the kind of thing I'd never think of until the time had passed :-). Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely try those combos and levels and choices. I'm almost sure there'll be a break, but you never know with this particular artist. I know the first half is a symphonic suite, and then comes either symphony with voice on mic, or maybe they'll add an electric guitar in there (most likely a wired acoustic guitar, so yes, amplified).

I guess I'll have to be really, really quiet in comparison with a rock concert...I think I remember that other recording of a quieter show having seat creaks and cough drop wrappers in it! I'll also have to air clap to keep that annoying snap, snap, snap of my hands down to a minimum. I can't wait to give the RH10 a test run!

Thank you especially for your ideas on level settings. I can of course look at the display at times, but I want to keep my fussing to a minimum so I can enjoy the show and not make it all about getting a recording. I do tend to kick myself heartily each time a recording fails, so I seem to stress out a little Who knew I could be such a perfectionist? I should transfer this work ethic over into my professional life and make tons of money!

minispecs

[smkranz]

Here is a symphony recording I just added to my Gallery which will give you an idea of the type of response you should expect. I use a NH900 instead of the RH10 (and high sensitivity mics versus low sensitivity) but I think the recording parameters should be pretty close.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?act=m...cmd=si&img=2435

Depending on where I am sitting in the hall, I usually set the MD at manual recording level 11 or 12, and low mic sensitivity. Maybe if your mics are the Low Sensitivity version you could go a notch or two higher, maybe up to 15...I don't know how the differences in the low vs. hi sensitivity mics should be reflected in these settings. But if there are very some loud passages and you've set the levels too high, you could have some distortion which you will not be able to edit out.

A440 is dead on about audience noise, too. Obviously, you can't control the dolts who will sit around you and make noise. But the in-ear mics make such a realistic recording that if someone behind you coughs or makes a noise, you might very well find yourself instinctively turning your head around while you are listening to the recording later in your own living room.

[minispecs]

11 to 15 is the range I kept it in the entire time. The amplified voice over the symphony was way too high at 15 so I took it down to 11 or 12 and it was fixed. The clapping was way too loud too :-) I started with the line in option with the attenuator, and I didn't see any levels, so I just went back to mic in and it was fine for the second part with the amplified vocals.

All in all it was a success, but I had to keep checking my unit, and I *hate* doing that, it's so obnoxious and obvious. I really hope that Sony comes out with a remote for the RH1 that lets you control recording and lets you see levels without producing audible interference. I'd be in heaven with this setup...even better if they could make the remote look like a watch so I could just place the setup in my clothes and control it from my wrist, they can even steal my idea if they like...but that's too much to dream for I suppose :-)

minispecs

[smkranz]

You are much better off setting it where you know you'll get a decent recording (like around 11-12 as you discovered), and leaving it alone, rather than changing settings mid-way. Depending on what kind of concert it is, what kind of hall you're in, where you are sitting, etc. it won't take you long to know what's right.

As for using a remote, I have the 3-line MC40ELK remote which displays recording levels quite nicely. But it also can add noise to recordings (something to do with the changing LCD on the remote), so I don't use it for recording any more .

[A440]

Glad you found a good level. SMKranz is right: "Set it and forget it" is the best way to go. Otherwise, you'll hear every adjustment you make in the finished recording. So if 11 leaves you enough headroom for the loudest passages, that's ideal. You can always lower the volume of the applause on playback.

Just one small thing: The attenuator is to go through Mic-In, the battery module through Line-in. It's no wonder you didn't get any level. The attenuator cuts the output of the mic, which is already too low for Line-In, so it won't overload the preamp at Mic-in. The battery box adds power to the mic so that with the signal from live music, there's enough juice for Line-in.

The RM-MC40ELK is useful for reassurance during live recordings, just so you can see you're recording and getting a level. As long as you leave it on Hold and don't light it up or adjust it, you won't get noise, and unless your symphony concerts are kept darker than mine, you can read the LCD without the backlight.

[Roamer]

And if you are in a dark place, just bring a keyring LED light, so you don't need to touch controls on the remote.

[minispecs]

And if you are in a dark place, just bring a keyring LED light, so you don't need to touch controls on the remote.

So touching the controls is what makes the noise? I have ordered a 40 remote just because my MD case is not see through and I like to see what I'm listening to! I hope it's in pretty good shape because I paid a bunch for it and it's listed as "used" which I saw way too late. Thanks for the advice...I don't know how I got it in my head that the attenuator needed to go Line in...I've recorded with it before! It's been a couple years though :-) I'm just happy to have had a great recording for the most part! Now to figure out how to normalize just one track where I did my noodling! ;-)

minispecs

Edited April 14, 2006 by minispecs