Mega Glitch In Audio Encoding

[dispher]

good morning fellow MDers...

i seek help in something really annoying in *ALL* versions of SonicStage that i used (starting from the version bundled with the MZ-NH1 ... i think it's 2.0 or 2.1? up until 3.4). it is the way the encoder in SonicStage AND SimpleBurner uses the ATRAC3plus CODEC ... Not ATRAC3 or WMA or MP3...just the ATRAC3plus CODEC.

When you rip a cd or convert files or rip using SimpleBurner it seems like the 2 programs have a way of achieving "gapless" rips or converts by streaming the audio signal as one long stream & cutting it where one track ends & the other begins but due to an error (in the way the 2 programs use the ATRAC3plus CODEC) it doesn't split the tracks in the original point in the stream! it splits them before the end of the first track by about 300 to 400 milliseconds (less than half a sec) & the remaining part of the first track goes to the second track. i checked this using my ears & sound forge to examin the output.

what dose this mean??? you will always have to hear the last milliseconds of the track that was playing before the track you will listen to next...better yet, if you have a cd with gapless tracks & one of them ends in a crash or scream or what ever...you will hear part of it in your next track (so if you'll make a playlist with deferent tracks from deferent albums, you will have a messed up experience BIG TIME

the dark side of the moon / the downward spiral / war & peace vol.1 <=== are just examples of how this error will make such a mess & when you list some songs for converting, you will get the same error in the begging of each song

there are no solutions for this that i know of...except for

1. ripping the cd

2. combine all the tracks using the combine function

3. split them using the divide function

4. re-name & re-tag everything (everything was tagged & named perfectly using gracenote in the first place)

so how about 300+ cds?

of course ... when you record using the MD unit (NH1 in my case) you don't have this flaw.

anybody have any insights on this??? would really appreciate it!

thanks for reading...& sony...please do something about this...ok?

[dex Otaku]

i seek help in something really annoying in *ALL* versions of SonicStage that i used (starting from the version bundled with the MZ-NH1 ... i think it's 2.0 or 2.1? up until 3.4). it is the way the encoder in SonicStage AND SimpleBurner uses the ATRAC3plus CODEC ... Not ATRAC3 or WMA or MP3...just the ATRAC3plus CODEC.

There's basically a 99% chance this is because of your CD drive's read offset.

See here.

You can try turning on the "read with smoothing" option in SS's settings to see if it makes a difference. I doubt it will.

If your drive has real problems because of its offset, then try using ripping software that does offset-correction such as Exact Audio Copy [EAC]. You have to use one of the CDs in its database to measure the offset first. If you don't have one of those CDs [a real one, not a burnt copy] then the results won't be accurate.

You could also try using a different optical drive.

[dispher]

thanks dex but this problem has nothing to do with the optical drive since it is in the encoding phase...

i tried about 7 optical drives / tried ripping with EAC & you will always have this glitch even when encoding files... not ripping from CDs

you can try this by taking 2 wav files each one with a deferent audio signal & encoding them in ATRAC3plus (any bitrate) & after opening the second one in a wave editor, you will see part of the signal that belongs to the first file in there!

thanks for the tip mate

[dex Otaku]

i tried about 7 optical drives / tried ripping with EAC & you will always have this glitch even when encoding files... not ripping from CDs

Okay. What is the actual source you're ripping? Is it an actual CD, is it from a disc image, or pre-split files of any give format [which SS will convert] that play aligned properly already?

The most usual case [going by other users' reports here] is that SB will rip properly, but SS moves markers on its own under certain circumstances. [i've seen it happen on my own machine, but I can't remember what the conditions were at the moment.]

[dispher]

well i've tried all 3 sources (original gapless CDs / ISO image + virtual drive / split WAV tracks) & the result is the same regardless

heck... i even tried WAV+CUE (from EAC) & tried editing the track marks in the CUE sheet (to simulate an offset that SonicStage will correct with it's encoder's error) but it didn't seem to work...

thanks dex

[dex Otaku]

well i've tried all 3 sources (original gapless CDs / ISO image + virtual drive / split WAV tracks) & the result is the same regardless

heck... i even tried WAV+CUE (from EAC) & tried editing the track marks in the CUE sheet (to simulate an offset that SonicStage will correct with it's encoder's error) but it didn't seem to work...

Wow. I admire the thoroughness of your testing, but can't think of anything to suggest. The problem itself doesn't actually make sense, does it.

In any case, I have used disc images many, many times [i make them for people after recording them], as well as actual CDs, MP3s, split WAVs that were gapless to begin with, &c. but have only run into the moving trackmark issue in one instance, though unfortunately [as I said already] I can't recall exactly what it was .. I have a feeling it was when using split WAVs of contiguous sources, but I'll have to try that to confirm it.

I do know [because I use it so often] that disc images work fine [gapless and trackmarks in the correct spots] at my end.

The fact that you've had this problem since much earlier versions of SS is also quite suspicious.

Have you tried ..

* checking your system from copy-protection software that might affect the reading of any/all CDs

* disabling any/all drive monitoring software if present

* disabling any/all utilities such as CloneCD [which use rootkit-like methods, among other things, to simulate being actual CD/DVD drives]

* basically - disabling anything and everything that might have any effect on reading from CD/DVD drives

... not much else I can think of. Unless you feel like sending one of those CD images to one of us for testing purposes.

[dispher]

ok so here we go...

i have made 3 WAV test tones for you to checkout...they are:

#1 (300Hz) // #2 (500Hz) // #3 (700Hz)

please pop them in SonicStage and:

1. select them all (all 3 signals) <=== IMPORTANT

2. convert Them to ATRAC3plus (any bitrate)

3. delete the WAV files.

4. lestin to them...or better yet, open them in sound forge or (after converting to WAV) in any other WAV editor of choice.

please let me know if you get part of signal #1 in #2 and part of #2 in #3.

peace

ps: please rename the extension of the attached file to RAR

[attachmentid=1680]

test_tones.txt