Fear of SoncStage's copyright protection

[carlshrader]

Re-Recording Experts:

I have used MDs since 1999 to make custom CD compilations (for my own private enjoyment, of course), using an MD deck to professional CD burner, often with a pro-MD deck in between when editing or equalizing (by hand, of course). I have about 150 MDs, and I recently purchase an RH-1 (because SS 4.0 is out), and am in the process of uploading all my old MDs to computer, which is my primary purpose. But now I am not even so sure I should even be doing that.

I am asking the following questions because I am transitioning between residences and not all of my recording equipment is available, otherwise I would be running some tests to answer some my own questions. I don't want to proceed in even the simple tasks I am doing if I am going to be unpleasantly surprised when I'm "back in business." In addition, I also don't want to be making any "mistakes" in running my current tests, i.e., those that I can do with just the RH1 and the computer.

Assume for all questions that I am making all transfers both ways in SP mode, and that all "original" MDs were created on a non-Net MD deck (17-inch stereo component) ("deck").

I have been unpleasantly surprised by all the limitations, restrictions, fine print, legalese, hardware requirements, and general hassles in doing the "simplest" things with Sonic Stage 4.0 (Windows XP). Example: I can transfer "my library" tracks to a blank MD, but cannot transfer that resulting new compilation back to the computer with a different "album" name. It says I recorded the tracks on another net-MD or recorder. I think I understand the gist of the message, but I don't understand all its implications. Hopefully some of you have gone where I would like to go.

For another example: I just read somewhere that I can transfer such tracks back to MD only three times. Does that mean that if I have already transferred a particular track twice just playing around, I get only one more shot? More importantly, assuming the answer is Yes, can I erase that album on the computer and re-upload the original MD and start over with three transfers available? Or is SS marking my original MDs on the first upload, branding it a "net" MD? If that is so, I have even more issues (see below).

Many thanks for your experience, advice, or whatever. At this point, I just want to avoid causing any conceivable "damage" to my current MDs, as well as to my future editing and re-ordering capabilities.

To summarize, with more concise questions:

1) Am I changing my original MDs solely by the upload process? (Presumably if I don't change track titles, and I don't see any file-writing activity (as opposed to Access activity) on the RH1, I can presume that there is no change to the original MDs?

2) If my primary purpose if to have a back-up copy of my original MDs, would I be better off just duplicating my MDs the slow way (using decks)? (Ignore any non-SS related issues, like convenience of hard drive and cost of 150 blank MDs!.) In other words, if I were to lose all my MDs, and re-create them from the computer, will I be able to use them in the same way as I could have used the originals? (apparently not, since they cannot be transferred back to a computer) (see #4 below)

3) Can I ALWAYS download to SP non-Net-MD again via quality analog into a quality deck, as often as I want? (I assume that SS cannot police what I am doing with my "jukebox" analog signal.)

4) Can I "beat the system" via digital? In other words, how many steps do I have to take to convert a Net-SP track to a non-Net SP track, or is it impossible (other than via analog)? For example, how would I copy a reordered compilation (recorded from computer library tracks) with a new album title back into the library as a legitmate "album" of "original MD" material (i.e., as if that MD had been made by hand on a deck, never via computer)? What if I put the NET MD (SP) in Deck A, and a brand new MD in deck B, and do a real-time digital transfer, will the computer still view Deck B's resulting MD as containing tracks transferred from the computer? If the answer is "yes," what if I burn the Net MD to a CD, then transfer the CD tracks digitally to a MD deck? (This isn't as bad as it sounds, since I plan to make a CD of any new "album" anyway.)

5) If my library is on a portable hard drive attached to a laptop, and I connect the hard drive to another computer, will SS impose even more limitations (e.g., "this computer not used to create these files")?

Thanks,

Carl

[A440]

Because SonicStage has been around for so long, in so many different version, there's a lot of old and outdated information floating around.

First of all, you should be using SonicStage 3.4 or 4.0. Nothing earlier. 3.4 probably came with your RH1.

Every track you have uploaded into My Library can be converted to .wav (under Tools). Once it's a .wav file, all encryption is gone. You can burn to CD, convert to any other format, send it back to an MD, whatever you want. Only downside: you'll have to re-create the title information.

You can also now save tracks unencrypted in .oma with the File Conversion Tool. Look at the third option in this thread:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=16088

I have only tried this on a few tracks and they work, but I have such a longstanding distrust of Sony that I still convert to .wav.

There is no check-in limit on 3.4 or 4.0. You can upload from a disc as many times as you want. There should also be no check-out limit from My Library. Put the songs on as many discs as you want.

Even if Sony doesn't want you re-uploading tracks you have sent to MD via NetMD--I haven't tried this, but I'll take your word for it--you can always download again from your computer.

1) Am I changing my original MDs solely by the upload process?

I don't think so, but with check-out limits removed, it's irrelevant.

2) If my primary purpose if to have a back-up copy of my original MDs, would I be better off just duplicating my MDs the slow way (using decks)? In other words, if I were to lose all my MDs, and re-create them from the computer, will I be able to use them in the same way as I could have used the originals?

Back up by converting to .wav or using the File Conversion Tool.

3) Can I ALWAYS download to SP non-Net-MD again via quality analog into a quality deck, as often as I want? (I assume that SS cannot police what I am doing with my "jukebox" analog signal.)

Always.

4) Can I "beat the system" via digital? In other words, how many steps do I have to take to convert a Net-SP track to a non-Net SP track, or is it impossible (other than via analog)? For example, how would I copy a reordered compilation (recorded from computer library tracks) with a new album title back into the library as a legitmate "album" of "original MD" material (i.e., as if that MD had been made by hand on a deck, never via computer)? What if I put the NET MD (SP) in Deck A, and a brand new MD in deck B, and do a real-time digital transfer, will the computer still view Deck B's resulting MD as containing tracks transferred from the computer? If the answer is "yes," what if I burn the Net MD to a CD, then transfer the CD tracks digitally to a MD deck? (This isn't as bad as it sounds, since I plan to make a CD of any new "album" anyway.)

I think you'd probably have to do this in realtime. My guess is that the re-recorded MD wouldn't read as a Net-MD since that's not how it was made.

You can also do this with Hi-MD Renderer, controlling the unit via USB with SonicStage and recording playback through your soundcard. Hi-MD Renderer (homemade software by the hard-working Marcnet) is free in Downloads, and has its own software forum.

How would you burn the NetMD to a CD?

5) If my library is on a portable hard drive attached to a laptop, and I connect the hard drive to another computer, will SS impose even more limitations (e.g., "this computer not used to create these files")?

After using the File Conversion Tool and removing copy protection, supposedly not. Try a few files and see.

[carlshrader]

#1 - Tools option for file conversion will not allow me to convert to WAV, it only attempts to optimize tracks transferred with older versions

#2 - I just moved my portable hard drive to a desktop and the SS on the desktop refuses to transfer any tracks to my RH10.

I conclude that my library comes to an end when my laptop does - unless I still have the original MDs.

I would burn from a netMD to a CD by putting the MD in a deck and use digital out to a proCD burner deck (if I had access to my CD burner at the moment, which I don't).

Because SonicStage has been around for so long, in so many different version, there's a lot of old and outdated information floating around.

First of all, you should be using SonicStage 3.4 or 4.0. Nothing earlier. 3.4 probably came with your RH1.

Every track you have uploaded into My Library can be converted to .wav (under Tools). Once it's a .wav file, all encryption is gone. You can burn to CD, convert to any other format, send it back to an MD, whatever you want. Only downside: you'll have to re-create the title information.

You can also now save tracks unencrypted in .oma with the File Conversion Tool. Look at the third option in this thread:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=16088

I have only tried this on a few tracks and they work, but I have such a longstanding distrust of Sony that I still convert to .wav.

There is no check-in limit on 3.4 or 4.0. You can upload from a disc as many times as you want. There should also be no check-out limit from My Library. Put the songs on as many discs as you want.

Even if Sony doesn't want you re-uploading tracks you have sent to MD via NetMD--I haven't tried this, but I'll take your word for it--you can always download again from your computer.

I don't think so, but with check-out limits removed, it's irrelevant.

Back up by converting to .wav or using the File Conversion Tool.

Always.

I think you'd probably have to do this in realtime. My guess is that the re-recorded MD wouldn't read as a Net-MD since that's not how it was made.

You can also do this with Hi-MD Renderer, controlling the unit via USB with SonicStage and recording playback through your soundcard. Hi-MD Renderer (homemade software by the hard-working Marcnet) is free in Downloads, and has its own software forum.

How would you burn the NetMD to a CD?

After using the File Conversion Tool and removing copy protection, supposedly not. Try a few files and see.

[A440]

#1 - Tools option for file conversion will not allow me to convert to WAV, it only attempts to optimize tracks transferred with older versions

Highlight a file (or files) and "Save in .wav format" under Tools should become available.

File conversion tool doesn't convert to .wav. But if you un-check Add Copy Protection it should remove the copy protection and give you .oma files that are portable.

[carlshrader]

Highlight a file (or files) and "Save in .wav format" under Tools should become available.

File conversion tool doesn't convert to .wav. But if you un-check Add Copy Protection it should remove the copy protection and give you .oma files that are portable.

Ya-hoo!

WAVs are a bit real-estate intensive, but at least it worked! So that's the deal - Sony let's you do things the hard way rather than the easy way. Thanks for that latest tip, as now I can at least back-up the original MDs without fear of permanent copyright protection AND use reliable software to burn tracks to standard audio CD with just the computer. This is good.

[raintheory]

Yes WAV are a bit large. I usually use the file conversion method to release the files from DRM and store them on an external drive or backup to DVD in their original format. I then use MarC's Hi-MD Renderer to convert to WAV when needed. The only exception to this is of course if I have recorded in PCM format.

Regardless, I usually convert WAV to FLAC anyways. Saves a good deal of space, and is a great lossless format.

[fishstyc]

... only attempts to optimize tracks transferred with older versions ...

That's what is says, but actually it also removes DRM (copy protection) from these files (all files you upload from MD->PC are DRM-ed by default), so you can play them on any computer with SS installed.

[Roamer]

1) Am I changing my original MDs solely by the upload process? (Presumably if I don't change track titles, and I don't see any file-writing activity (as opposed to Access activity) on the RH1, I can presume that there is no change to the original MDs?

It actually depends if you're talking about legacy MDs or HiMDs.

With legacy MDs (recorded in SP/LP2/LP4), nothing is written, you can even write protect the disc if you want (I tried it).

With HiMd (or MD reformated in HiMD mode), it will write on the disc, because the check-in routine is still there, although it doesn't do much. And in the rare event that it fails during the upload, there is still a chance that you end up with a corrupted disc (it did happen to me once), even if the latest releases of SonicStage (3.4 or 4.0) handles uploading errors in a better way.