"tics" on uploading

[zoot1]

Much has been written about tics or dropouts while recording, my problem has been these little skips that appear upon uploading. The original recording is fine. Different players (Sharp 877 Sony Gold), two different computers and cords, I don't get it. I have only had the problem pop up recently after 10 years of recording live events problem-free. I first thought it seemed to happen when the internet was connected, now it seems to appear regardless. Maybe too many operations at once? A new cord (Gold, from Radio Shack) seemed to help a little, which doesn't really make much sense unless it was also bad...

Any thoughts (without any newbie rage)?

[A440]

Maybe too many operations at once?

I take it you are "uploading" by recording from the MD in realtime. So examine the signal path.

Apparently the headphone jack is OK, because you can listen to the original disc with no problems--you've tried that over long periods, right?

Your new cord should rule out the possibility of a worn-out one.

Line-in jack of your computer. Any problems with that? Have you tried making a recording from something else with a headphone output, like a radio?

That would leave software/processing problems. And yes, too many operations may definitely be a culprit. Did you recently install a new security program or something that might interfere? Playing video games while recording? iTunes and other media players are processor hogs. So are some email programs and, I sometimes think, just about anything made by Microsoft. See if you can do your realtime recording with a minimum of other activity and maybe the problem will end.

We don't flame newbies here....well, most of the time.

[raintheory]

Are you using a laptop by chance?

[zoot1]

No, two different PCs.

Uploading IS in realtime. The original recording plays fine. I think you have to be right about a processor problem, that's why I tried using a new PC. The only thing I can think of is that Nortons is scheduled to run when the computer is booted up. I'll change that. There is absolutely an improvement with the new "kid-free" PC though, so I guess I'm on the right track.

It still puzzles me as to why I had so many years of clear tic-less listening.

And thanks for your patience!

[A440]

Norton is scheduled to run when the computer is booted up.

Please, don't change that! You want antivirus protection every instant you are online. If Norton is trying to scan the system while you're trying to upload, that's another thing--it will almost definitely made SonicStage stutter (and a lot of other applications too). Let it do any full system scan when nothing else is going on. But leave it loading on startup and running in the background any time you are online.

I was once lent a PC that, ridiculously enough, had no antivirus or internet security. It got zapped within 45 minutes of being online and wireless. I had to go offline and do a system recovery back to before I got online.

Have you done a serious antivirus and spyware check on both PCs? Update Norton, have it scan, and even if it doesn't find anything, try another online scan like Trend Micro's Housecall : http://housecall.trendmicro.com/ Its time-consuming--do it overnight--but it's worthwhile. (You'll probably have to monitor it for a few minutes to get it started. Norton may not like another program accessing deep into the system, so you'll have to allow it manually, but then you can let it roll.) If you find something that Norton or Trend Micro can't remove, other antivirus companies also have online scans: Kaspersky, BitDefender, AVG (Google them). All of them are slightly different in what they can and can't dispose of.

Also download and run (one at a time, not at the same time):

Ad-Aware: http://www.lavasoftusa.com/products/ad_aware_free.php

and Spybot S&D: http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10122137.html

First update both of them from their opening screens, then run them.

I'm generally paranoid about this stuff, but I hate to think what might be on the non-"kid free" PC, since you're having less trouble on the other one. Clean 'em up.

-------------------

Actually, I realize you are not using SonicStage to upload since you're recording in realtime. What recording software are you using with the PC? And have you tried recording into the computer with the same software from another source, not MD?

Another possibility is that something has fiddled with your soundcard driver. Have you installed any new music/media player software or updated Windows Media Player? You might want to look in Settings/Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices/Audio and see what your Default Playback and Recording devices are. Do they look familiar--probably your soundcard (whatever it is)? Or or there multiple choices?

You can find what your soundcard is under Settings/Control Panel/System/Hardware/Device Manager/Sound, video and game controllers (you'll probably see Codecs, Video Capture and Legacy drivers alongside the soundcard; mine, for instance, is Soundmax Integrated HD Audio, but there are countless sound cards). See if your soundcard matches what's under Sounds and Audio Devices/Audio as default playback and recording devices.

Tell us what you find there before making any changes.

[zoot1]

Please, don't change that! You want antivirus protection every instant you are online. If Norton is trying to scan the system while you're trying to upload, that's another thing--it will almost definitely made SonicStage stutter (and a lot of other applications too). Let it do any full system scan when nothing else is going on. But leave it loading on startup and running in the background any time you are online.

I was once lent a PC that, ridiculously enough, had no antivirus or internet security. It got zapped within 45 minutes of being online and wireless. I had to go offline and do a system recovery back to before I got online.

Have you done a serious antivirus and spyware check on both PCs? Update Norton, have it scan, and even if it doesn't find anything, try another online scan like Trend Micro's Housecall : http://housecall.trendmicro.com/ Its time-consuming--do it overnight--but it's worthwhile. (You'll probably have to monitor it for a few minutes to get it started. Norton may not like another program accessing deep into the system, so you'll have to allow it manually, but then you can let it roll.) If you find something that Norton or Trend Micro can't remove, other antivirus companies also have online scans: Kaspersky, BitDefender, AVG (Google them). All of them are slightly different in what they can and can't dispose of.

Also download and run (one at a time, not at the same time):

Ad-Aware: http://www.lavasoftusa.com/products/ad_aware_free.php

and Spybot S&D: http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10122137.html

First update both of them from their opening screens, then run them.

I'm generally paranoid about this stuff, but I hate to think what might be on the non-"kid free" PC, since you're having less trouble on the other one. Clean 'em up.

-------------------

Actually, I realize you are not using SonicStage to upload since you're recording in realtime. What recording software are you using with the PC? And have you tried recording into the computer with the same software from another source, not MD?

Another possibility is that something has fiddled with your soundcard driver. Have you installed any new music/media player software or updated Windows Media Player? You might want to look in Settings/Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices/Audio and see what your Default Playback and Recording devices are. Do they look familiar--probably your soundcard (whatever it is)? Or or there multiple choices?

You can find what your soundcard is under Settings/Control Panel/System/Hardware/Device Manager/Sound, video and game controllers (you'll probably see Codecs, Video Capture and Legacy drivers alongside the soundcard; mine, for instance, is Soundmax Integrated HD Audio, but there are countless sound cards). See if your soundcard matches what's under Sounds and Audio Devices/Audio as default playback and recording devices.

Tell us what you find there before making any changes.

I use Audacity on both PCs, and the one I sit at now lists USB Audio under Sound recording default device. The sound card was chosen (from a choice of 9!) was "IDE-DVD Rom 16x", so you are right, they don't match. I should choose "USB Audio Device" under hardware settings?

Never tried recording from another source, but I suppose I would have the same problem...

[A440]

I'm trying to visualize your setup. How were you recording before, when things worked?

You connected a cord from the headphone jack of your Sharp or Sony MD to....what? Mic-in on your computer? Line-in on your computer? Or an input on some external (USB Audio) device, like an iMic or an external soundcard?

The IDE DVD-ROM is your built-in DVD drive, one of the many sound devices on your computer. So, yes, you could try switching to USB Audio as your default recording and playback device--IF that's what you were actually using, and not your computer's built-in soundcard.

[zoot1]

I'm trying to visualize your setup. How were you recording before, when things worked?

You connected a cord from the headphone jack of your Sharp or Sony MD to....what? Mic-in on your computer? Line-in on your computer? Or an input on some external (USB Audio) device, like an iMic or an external soundcard?

The IDE DVD-ROM is your built-in DVD drive, one of the many sound devices on your computer. So, yes, you could try switching to USB Audio as your default recording and playback device--IF that's what you were actually using, and not your computer's built-in soundcard.

Sorry for the confusion. I have two PC's. The one I was referring to has a USB sound device, a generic e-Bay item that has always worked fine. On the other PC (the recently purchased one) I use the mic-in. The set up is exactly as it always has been. It's the new computer that has me confused, I disconnect from the internet, no "hogs" running in the background that I can identify, the min-disc plays fine, but then the tics/skips always appear on the recorded version. I have literally uploaded hundreds of hours of live MD's over the years with no problems, and I really can't figure out what changed. No chronic problems with Audacity? Should I try Sonicstage?

[A440]

If I understand you, the new computer is giving you problems while the old one works.

Therefore I would look at the new computer hardware. Try the mic jack with something else as an input--which would rule out the MD as the culprit if you have the same problem. Look in Sounds and Audio Devices and see what the default recording device is. It should be whatever the built-in soundcard is.

The computer's mic jack, as on the MD, has a preamp behind it. There could be loose connections to the mic jack or to the preamp. The preamp could also be flaky. This happened to me on a badly made Toshiba computer I had--random static from the mic jack--and since I needed Line-in rather than Mic-in anyway, I just got a Griffin iMic (USB audio device) and used that.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16812999078

How about plugging your old USB audio device into the new computer and recording through that--if not permanently, just to test.

SonicStage is not a realtime recorder. It's for music transfer, and for any MD before Hi-MD (including your gold Sony, which I assume is the MZ-N505) it is one-way only: PC to MD.

I've never had any problems with Audacity, and no one has reported them here, for what that's worth. Audacity has its own user forum, I think. You could also try another free recording program, Reaper.

http://www.softsea.com/review/Reaper.html

But I suspect hardware, not software, is the problem.

[zoot1]

Sorry for even more confusion. The old computer HAD always worked fine, until the last year or so. I eventually blamed it on the kids sketchy downloads. At one point, the tics would disappear if I only disconnected from the internet. Then over time, I couldn't seem to make a clean recording. I then went out and bought a new PC, JUST FOR ME, so I the blame could not be passed on to anyone but myself. The new computer is doing the exact same thing (4 different MD's, all Sharp, all real-time uploads. The Sony Gold I referred to were the discs themselves)as the old. I have no other source to play into the mic in. The Mini disc players all play fine on their own, so I believe you are right about the problem being with the hardware. Do you suspect the processor? RAM? I should even consider the possibility that I have TWO bad cords.

Thanks again for your help and patience.

[A440]

Hey, it wouldn't hurt to try another cord.

And really, no one you know has a portable CD/iPod/radio/voice recorder with a headphone jack? Borrow your kid's player.

Have you tried the USB Audio device with the new computer?

I'd like to know more about the problems with the recordings. Are you getting static, noise, or silence but the recording proceeds in real time? That would suggest some kind of noise getting introduced--a bad jack, my current suspect. On the other hand, if you are getting skips--that is, the recording leaps ahead, so a three-minute song comes out under three minutes--that would point to software.

I would find it very worrisome about tics coming and going with an internet connection. You really should run the spyware/adware/virus checks I mentioned above on that computer. For all you know that computer has been commandeered remotely, is running some horrible program whenever it goes online, and is sending me tons of spam.

If you want to look under the hood of the kids' computer, try Start/Run/msconfig . You'll get the System Configuration Utility and you can see what's running on Startup (far right tab). There are probably at least a dozen programs listed, most of them utilities built into your computer, antivirus protection, etc., perfectly normal. But you can look up any suspicious program names in Google.

My hardware suspicions are simpler than processor or RAM, especially if other programs are running well for you.

You could test your RAM with this, but why would there be problems on both computers?

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Memory-...k/MemTest.shtml

I'm guessing connection problems with the jack. Maybe you wore out the jack on the USB audio, and as I mentioned, laptops can skimp on the mic jack.

Edited August 25, 2007 by A440

[raintheory]

do the tics occur on a regular basis? in other words, do they happen every 3 seconds on the recording, every 30 seconds, etc...

could you post a sample of the recording with the 'tics?

[zoot1]

As far as the tics/skips go; the skip is a quick one, a fraction of a second, and are (at least from what I can see) completely random. It could two 5 seconds apart, or 20 minutes apart. The skip is often, but not always accompanied by a tic, almost reminiscent of an LP with a scratch. No other noise, static or (long)silence. The recording is perfect otherwise. I have not tried the USB device in the new PC. And as far as a bad jack is concerned, that would mean I have TWO bad jacks, one a brand new one (not impossible, I know). I will go after the cord theory and see what happens.

I will try to post a sample. They are all in the i-tunes library though, and I can't seem to get at them! As I look back through some of the songs, I have many recent flawless recordings that I had not considered. Maybe a cord with a weak spot in a bad position?

I included a 30 second sample, the skip occurs at about the 17 second point. This is actually a dropout I think, a split second of silence. No tic this time, but as I said, it's not consistent.

Thanks

sample2.mp3

Edited August 27, 2007 by zoot1

[raintheory]

The skips/dropouts/etc could be caused by the audio data being held in physical RAM and then offloaded onto hard disk when the RAM is full (could cause a CPU spike, or the disk access times might not be able to catch up... either way it could cause this problem, I have seen it happen)

You could try the program GoldWave, (which I use most often) similar to Audacity... There is a setting in preferences where you can have the program record direct-to-hard-disk, which would eliminate the glitches if what I stated is in fact the problem.

http://www.goldwave.com/release.php

Alternately, in Audacity you could try increasing the Audio Buffer in preferences and give it a go...

Edited August 27, 2007 by raintheory

[zoot1]

Another theory worth a try, thank you. But if successful, I will still have to wonder why this would happen all of a sudden? I have now used a third PC, same result. Back to the cord...

I played the CD made by the third PC, and the only problem was in the first few minutes of the recording, when the internet was connected. After I disabled the wireless connection, it was fine. So back to the original thought, which was a processing glitch. I think...

Edited August 27, 2007 by zoot1