I Need A Little Guidance - help in recording concerts

[atticus18244fsas]

Well this is a great forum with quick responses and i've been browsing it for the last couple days. I love recording "rock" concerts. I've tried recording two so far with no success. I used an ipod mic (because it was my first time) to record a show off the Honda Civic Tour (Fall Out Boy, PLus 44, Paul Wall, The Acadmy Is... and Cobra Starship). As you would think i got major distortion like you wouldn't beleive. Next i tried running a mic through my ipod again. This time i used a Creative Computer Mic running through ipod linux recording at cd quality. This time i think me mic popped out and i only got 3 seconds of recording. I am absolutly sick of not getting an workalbe audio. In the last weeks i've spent 3+ horus a day looking at the best ways to record concerts. Thats what brought me here. I am looking at a couple setups and would like to keep them under $100. If you have any suggestions that would be great.

1st setup

MZ-r50 off ebay and a stealth microphone off ebay (link below)

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREO-Y-MICROPHONE-PA...oQQcmdZViewItem

2nd setup

Olympus DS2 Voice Recorder (for the fact it has a visual representation of the mic levels (link below)) into a Shure Volume Attenuator into the smae mic as above

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-DS-2-Digital...6703&sr=1-1

or whatever else you can suggest. I usually record concerts from up close to the point where you are being shaken by the speakers.

PS; If any1 wants to direct me to somewhere i can get a MZ-r50 cheaper then 50 bucks please do.

Edited August 7, 2007 by atticus18244fsas

[raintheory]

If you decide on the MiniDisc route:

The R50 is an older unit so there will be no digital way to get the audio from the Minidisc to PC or whatnot. You'll need to do it in realtime via analog. Also, it's highest quality setting records compressed Atrac @ ~292kbps for 74 or 80min, depending on discs.

The newer Hi-MD recorders will upload their recordings, digitally using SonicStage, and can record in PCM uncompressed 16bit 44.1kHz (CD Quality).

You can probably pick up a used MZ-NH700 for around $125 or less if you keep an eye on eBay.

There others that know more about mics than myself, so they will help out I'm sure...

The Olympus voice recorder is designed for just that... voice. Chances are it will be quite poor at recording concerts.

Edited August 7, 2007 by raintheory

[johnty]

If you decide on the MiniDisc route:

The R50 is an older unit so there will be no digital way to get the audio from the Minidisc to PC or whatnot. You'll need to do it in realtime via analog. Also, it's highest quality setting records compressed Atrac @ ~292kbps for 74 or 80min, depending on discs.

The newer Hi-MD recorders will upload their recordings, digitally using SonicStage, and can record in PCM uncompressed 16bit 44.1kHz (CD Quality).

You can probably pick up a used MZ-NH700 for around $125 or less if you keep an eye on eBay.

There others that know more about mics than myself, so they will help out I'm sure...

The Olympus voice recorder is designed for just that... voice. Chances are it will be quite poor at recording concerts.

the problem with mic clipping can be solved through the use of a battery box. for really loud stuff you'd plug in the mic into the battery box, and then the output of the battery box into the line-input of the MD recorder. even the mic on that ebay link you sent will likely clip at higher volumes. hit a search on ebay for 'battery box' and see what you get. they usually take 9V cells.

[atticus18244fsas]

Thanks for the quick responses but the thing is i need to keep the overall size of everything to a minimum. Couldn't i just use the manual levels on the minidisc player? And how do i know if the minidsic recorder will be able to digitally transfer the files instead of transefering in real time.

[belletristik]

To be able to do live recordings, and then upload them via USB, you'll need one of the portable Hi-MD recorders (as opposed to players or downloaders) listed on this page. Hi-MD is the third-generation MiniDisc specification, and the first and only one to allow digital upload via USB. The R50 that you found on eBay is a first-generation MD recorder.

[raintheory]

Any Hi-MD recorder will upload Hi-MD recordings to PC. You mentioned Linux, but SonicStage is a windows-only program. I've got SonicStage to work in Ubuntu using VMware Server.

Hi-MD models with Mic-in:

MZ-NH700 - MZ-NH810F - MZ-NH900 - MZ-NH1

MZ-RH910 - MZ-RH10 - MZ-M10 - MZ-M100

MZ-RH1/M200

You can use manual levels on the unit, but loud LOUD concerts will overload the mic-preamp and cause distortion... A battery box is one way around it, another method (cheaper) that sometimes works is using a small headphone attenuator.

Here is a good post regarding avoiding distortion wilst recording live:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=15573

Edited August 7, 2007 by raintheory

[A440]

i need to keep the overall size of everything to a minimum. Couldn't i just use the manual levels on the minidisc player?

You need to use manual levels but manual levels are not enough. When recording Mic-->Mic-in, the built-in preamp that boosts the mic signal just can't handle much bass. I tried recording a serene Norah Jones concert through Mic-in, low sensitivity, manual levels never peaking, and every delicate little thump of the bass drum distorted.

So you use Line-in, which has no preamp and expects a stronger signal. But Line-in doesn't send the mics the little bit of power they need to work. Hence the battery module, which provides enough power to give you a good signal through Line-in with amplified music. (The louder the music, the more signal the mic itself generates. With quieter sounds, Line-in would need a preamp. But rock concerts work fine with a battery box.)

This one is the size of a car-alarm remote.

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

Sound Professionals also has some small ones here. You don't need bass roll-off because you're recording through Line-in.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/...tegory/310/mics