Sony MZR700 Playback Issue

[deracine]

Hi!

I did some recording with a friend's MZR700 a year ago and finally got around to getting one of my own because I really loved the machine. So the first one I bought; I went to check the recording aspects (via microphone recording sound) and in LP2 and LP4 during playback the sound would only play in one ear phone, but played fine in mono.

I tried a second set of headphones and a second microphone. Same problem. So I returned the first MZR700 I received and bought a new one. I received it today and wanted to test out the recording aspect ... and I am having the same exact problem.

I ran it on a cable to my computer and recorded the audio back to my PC, and on playback, it is going to both speakers in my computer but just one in my earphones.

Does anyone have any advice with this? I never ran across this problem with my friend's PC, and I asked the seller prior to purchase if he could record the testing and playback in all 3 and he said they worked fine.

Help please! Thank you!

[A440]

It's possible you are using a mono microphone.

Compare your microphone plug to your (stereo) headphone plug. Does it have the same two bands around the plug? Or just one? Just one is mono.

A mono mic will record into the left channel only.

Running into the computer....your computer may, like mine, have a mono mic jack that is fed to both sides of the stereo. So you're getting playback of the same signal on both sides.

[deracine]

It's possible you are using a mono microphone.

Compare your microphone plug to your (stereo) headphone plug. Does it have the same two bands around the plug? Or just one? Just one is mono.

A mono mic will record into the left channel only.

Running into the computer....your computer may, like mine, have a mono mic jack that is fed to both sides of the stereo. So you're getting playback of the same signal on both sides.

That's the exact thing the seller suggested that I bought my equipment from. It makes complete sense, and you're right, I think it's mono, as on the metal there is only one ring.

I went ahead and purchased this microphone today..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00...2743&sr=8-2

It says it was a stereo microphone so hopefully that will work and fix my problem. I feel like such an idiot, it really seems like such a simple solution but the friend who had been helping me buy this to begin with told me any microphone would do and never explained there was just a mono feed. I was completely unaware.

Thanks so much, I really hope this fixes my problem.

[A440]

That mic should be good for recording speech--not necessarily music. What are you planning to record?

[deracine]

That mic should be good for recording speech--not necessarily music. What are you planning to record?

Planning to record live music when I am in Japan. I am not looking for perfect quality, it is impossible to get anyway when its just a little microphone with all the static and the feedback from speakers, etc, but I am looking for a coherant play back where I can relive the experience without my ears bleeding, basically.

My big concern which occurred to me this morning, is that I cannot find any information anywhere on if this is a normal stereo jack or the type to plug in to the bottom of the ipod. I THINK it is a stereo jack but the lack of photos and every site selling it using the same description makes me ansy.

Edited November 2, 2007 by deracine

[A440]

Ipods don't have a mic input, so I think that mic should probably have a basic stereo plug. It would be nice if they showed it or named it, though.

But I'm not sure that mic will be adequate for music. It looks like it's made for speech, which means it probably picks up midrange but not highs or lows. Music is going to sound pretty squished through a voice mic.

If you are willing to spend about $100, you can get very lifelike recordings of music with these tiny, eraser-sized mics:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

and this battery module:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

I was just looking at the Sound Pros site and in the fine print on the BMC-2, it says that two are $24.50 each, so you can actually get one for $49 or add a spare pair for zero cost. (Get two, save one as a spare or sell it here or on eBay.) Include the microphone clips, so you can put them on your shirt collar, hat, camera bag strap, etc. Get regular, not high-sensitivity.

You need the battery module because while the preamp in the minidisc recorder is good for unamplified sounds like speech, it gets overloaded by amplified music or anything with bass. (I recently tried to do a mic-in recording of a church organ--no go.) You connect mic-->battery module-->Line-in, which has no preamp, and with the level set about 2/3 of the way up, you're good to go.

A cheaper way to do it is to substitute a $7 Radio Shack Headphone Volume Control--picture in my avatar--and go Mic-->RSHVC-->Mic-in. It's a volume knob on a cord, and used backwards like this, with the volume knob all the way to its maximum, it still cuts the mic signal enough to make overloading less likely. But if you're at some titanically bass heavy show, like reggae or metal, it will overload, because the HVC method isn't quite as tolerant as the battery module.

You can hear recordings with this setup in the Gallery (upper right) in my Album, and also look around at other people's recordings and setups.

------------------------------

By the way, you can do a quick test of your unit for stereo recording by plugging your headphones--yes, your headphones--into the mic jack and yelling at them. Headphones can work like weak microphones. Tap each one and you'll ascertain if you have stereo.

Edited November 2, 2007 by A440

[deracine]

What do you mean by "squished"?

I went to your profile to look at the recordings - one of them in there sounded professional, are you serious that those microphones and the battery thing did that? What type of envior. was that concert in? Was it a venue or an outdoor show? My problem is obviously though that all of this is bulky and I try to carry as little as possible, I take this into concert halls and it stays in my bag so I am trying to use as little equipment as possible.

When I recorded before, this is a result of what I got: (this is just a 10 second clip)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/7j3epl

That recording I was actually 100% OK with, and was just hoping to find something of similar quality but I am really intrigued by that one recording of yours and would really like to get a crystal clear recording if it is possible.

A few questions though..

Why does that microphone though have 2 little microphones? I've never seen one like that before, do you need to keep the mics seperated when recording? I was reading about these and I don't understand how to use them.

"Binaural recordings are two channel recordings created by placing two Omnidirectional microphones in or as close to the ears as is practical. Using this technique, the location information contained in the frequency, amplitude and phase responses of the left and right channels closely match the cues required by the human auditory system to localize sound sources. Positioned in this way, these Binaural microphones accurately capture sonic information coming from all directions and will produce extremely realistic recordings when listened to through headphones."

Like I'd said, I leave my microphone clipped to my bag and my bag on the floor or against a wall. I don't listen to it as it's recording or keep it on my person at all, and if I am understanding right, for these microphones to work right it needs to be recording like as if I was wearing headphones? That wouldn't work for me, at all.

I mean.. I really don't want to be dropping another 100+ on a microphone and other accessories to record as my funds are limited; all my friend used was a lapel mic and thats the recording we got. On super-high ranges it got a little staticy but it wasn't anything that I was like "this is trash", unless I was in a very small venue with a poor sound system to begin with. The bigger the place, the nicer recording I got.

When you mean squished, do you mean sounding more like that? This is just really stressful as I only have a short time before this first show and I can't keep spending money on the wrong microphones; but if you are telling me that microphone above is going to give me a crystal clear almost professional sound I might have to get it.

Also, the first shows I'm attending is a techno show. I assume this headphone controls thing might be a good idea? Like I said, all the shows I've recorded were loud rock shows, and I've never had a problem with bass issues so all of this is new to me.

Edited November 2, 2007 by deracine

[A440]

First of all, don't stress. The way I feel about recordings is that if you get them, great, and if you don't, you weren't supposed to be recording anyway...

You got some serious bottom on that recording, and if that's your same mic and you're short of time, go for it. The vocals are probably louder on the recording than they were at the show because that mic picks up more midrange, less highs and lows. That's what I mean by squished. But for a techno thing you're mostly going to have the big beat, so it would probably sound good enough.

It also sounds like that mic was not sensitive. This is good, because it can handle loud sounds. (Sensitivity is how much electronic signal the mic sends with how much volume.) Since you're already recording loud rock you can probably also record techno without a problem. A more sensitive mic would just send a stronger signal and distort.

I'm a little geeky, so f I were you, I'd get the headphone volume control anyway and take it along and try to do some kind of test--go early, make a recording of the opener without and with the HVC, then go to the men's room and play it back (pack the earbuds too) and see which you like better. But as I said, you can probably get away without it.

For a couple of bucks you can get a mono-to-stereo adapter that will run the mono signal from your original mic through both channels. If you can find it, get a cord with a jack on one end and a plug on the other, rather than an all-in-one plug, because a cord will put less stress on the mic jack and be easier to squeeze into a pocket.

I don't know which recording you meant, but they are generally clubs, big or small depending on the band. Radiohead was outdoors but I was in an exceptionally excellent spot.

My setup is not bulky at all. It's pocket-sized. The BMC-2 mics are the size of pencil erasers on a 3/4-inch black clip. I clip them to the collar or lapels of a black shirt or jacket (for camouflage), put the thin wires down my shirt, put the MD and battery module (also small, like a car-alarm remote) in my pocket. Six inches apart, like your ears, the mics pick up stereo like your ears--subtle differences between left and right signals that your brain decodes--and a full frequency range (20-20000 Hz). That's why you get that depth in the recordings.

I don't monitor while recording. Every so often I look at the level if I can, but I rarely change it from 20/30. With the R700 you have to pause the recording (or use the headphone volume control) to change level, but unless it's smashed up against the top end there's no need to change it.

As for the camera-bag setup....Mic placement makes a huge difference in what you get. Bend down to the floor where your mics are and you'll hear what they're picking up, which will be much more muffled than what you get standing up. That's why I prefer clipping the tiny mics to a collar. But if you're pressed for time, just take what you have. (And, I suggest, clip the lapel mic to your lapel and slip the MD into a pocket.) You might look in Japan when you get there for little binaural mics. I hear it's a nice country for gizmos.

Don't get a Sony mic "for minidisc." It has meager bass response (to make up for the preamp problem) and will be bigger and more expensive than better mics.

Again, don't stress out. You can save up and get better mics later for your next round of recording....because MD can be addictive that way.

[deracine]

Yeah, thats basically how I feel about most of my recordings; however with these ones I'm a little more stressed as this is a "I don't know if/when I will ever get this opportunity again". One of these shows is an all night event, it will never be the same line up again.

This new mic that I just bought isn't the same type as the one in that recording. Hers was similar, it was just a little black slip on microphone. She can't give me any information on it and said that it was just the first microphone she saw and bought it when she had her MD player, so she never did any research like I am. Are most microphones sensitive (or will they state they have high sensitivity if they are?) Alot of my recordings were all like that with a bit louder on the vocals. I'm okay with the "squished" sound for now, I am going to try and persuade my friend to perhaps trade me her microphone for the mono one I have now since she no longer does recordings and just uses it for skype.

The techno show I am going to 3 of their events so the first I was going to try w/o the headphone control, see how good/awful it was and then pick it up if I felt necessary for the second show, try it again, see how good/awful it was and then decide to use it with or without for the third show. As for the mono to stereo jack, is that something I could pick up from Radioshack?

Yeah the venues I go to I don't know if I could get away with the BMC mics. I am not stealthy at all and especially at the Japanese shows, I am literally crushed against other people and all I'd need is that microphone getting loose or constantly hitting someone (or some shorter girl's head pressing right against it on my shoulder and screaming into it the entire time). That's why I keep my mics in the bag and keep the bag tucked to the side, doesn't get trampled or touched so the sound tends to stay more constant. I do agree though its extremely muffled. That makes sense why the recording would be that way since it is so much lower. I tend to try and set it in more of an open area where there is no people around; that way the sound can be a little clearer possibly.

Now in the case of event like with this new microphone. obviously it's white and a little more obtrusive, but if I were to keep the MD in my pocket and ran the cord up my shirt and clipped the microphone to say my bra strap or shirt collar on the inside; would this muffle my recording alot or still make it pretty decent? I mean obviously I don't wear black constantly to shows and I take my jacket off; but once the lights go down and the show starts people really wont be paying attention to things anyway. And with me moving around/dancing or bumping into someone/bumping the microphone, is the mic going to pick that up every time or will the loud sound of the music cancel out the noise of the bump? The same goes for this binural mics you're talking about where you clip them to you, if I have someone crushed to me or i'm moving around constantly, will they effect my recording? I'm considering picking this microphone up before I go to Japan.

That battery module is really that small? It looked so huge in the photo I thought it was around the size of the MD player itself! Now if I were to buy those microphones and clip them to my bag, six inches apart and set my bag down like normal, would the recording go down considerably in quality?

I don't monitor my recordings at all. I start it about when I think the lights are going to go down and I don't touch the bag until the end of the show. Mainly a) because I don't want to get it messed up, and because I'm paranoid, lol.

And I agree, MD recording is quite addictive, as you can see I'm really trying to learn as much as I can about this, I swear I was like a kid on Christmas playing around with my player when it first arrived.

[A440]

Mics are all different. But when you get yours, try it next to the woofer of your stereo speaker at full blast and see what it does and whether you need the attenuator. You don't have to wait for the show.

The mono-to-stereo cord (if you can, rather than a jack) should be at Radioshack. But don't use it if you have a stereo mic.

Putting the mic under clothing won't work because the clothing will rub against the mic.

It's got to be unencumbered--or completely still if it's under something. I have accidentally left my mics under a shirt or in a pocket, and they're a little muffled by the fabric, but as long as they don't rub they're OK.

I understand your shoulder situation, but how about on top of a shirt collar? It's hard for someone to bump into it if you place it right--your shoulders, chest and chin are in the way. You will hear a direct bump on the mic and close conversation, etc. Moving around is no problem as long as there's no impact on the mic. The sound mix will change as you walk through the room.

Leaving it clipped onto a bag somewhere might be more practical in a mosh-pit situation. But a bag on a table, raised up, or hung from a coathook or something would be even better. Be creative.

The clips on the BMC-2 are pretty hard to dislodge. I've been in some tight crowds, and as long as the wires are tucked in and no one can get snagged on them, I've never had a problem with them coming loose. You're thinking they are bigger than they actually are. The tip of the mic is smaller than a shirt button. Look at the measurements of the battery module and check it against a ruler--it's thumb-sized.

White mic? Wear white, or don't worry about it. In a big rave situation you'd probably have to wave it on a glowstick and yell "I'm recording!" for anyone to notice.

[deracine]

Yeah that's what I'd been doing with the mono mic - I turned my stereo up high and held it only like 2 inches or less from the speaker. For a mono, sadly it did a pretty damn nice recording.

I was thinking about this when I was out running errands and it also occurred to me exactly as you said, it would pick up close conversation - so I am singing along with the words, I bet money it'd pick my voice up if I was wearing it which would be awful. I didn't think about the clothing rub, good point. But again on the top of a shirt collar, it is still going to bump slightly if I am jumping around or moshing and would pick me up talking/singing I'd assume.

I agree I think the bag clip is more practical, but yes I definitely am going to try and come up with a plan to have it more raised. I've also thought about perhaps using just a tiny shoulder purse but in that situation again it might get banged around and it's really only at a little below shoulder level at that point. The worst part is, I haven't been to many of the venues I am attending before, so I can't really plan a strategy how I am going to do this prior. I usually push for the front though; and I've noticed that usually being along the bar and setting the bag between the stage and the bar the sound is pretty decent. It's comparable because it's still on the floor, but it is a little clearer but I don't know why.

That is so cool about those little microphones. I definitely bookmarked the link and am going to consider picking them up. My biggest worry honestly is someone searching my bag which they do to almost all the venues I attend. I keep my MD and my Ipod in a separate bag inside my purse, but it is still worrisome. (Though in Japan, feigning ignorance to the language can really do wonders in tight situations... )

[A440]

If you like that mono mic and you're used to it, and you know it works, an adapter would be easy to find. Compare it to the Griffin and just decide which sounds better. The Griffin does have two elements, a little separated, so you might get more spatial depth in the recording--a little, anyway. Separate mics do better.

A fun thing about those little BMC-2 mics is how easy they are to hide. Don't even put them in your bag. The wires are super thin. I drop the cord under my shirt and fold the mic cord over a button and tuck it back in. When the show starts I pull out the mics and clip them to my collar. Security folks pat down your sides, not your front--especially since you're a woman.

And if someone ever does say--"You're bringing in a minidisc!"--just say it's your mp3 player and point out that it would need an external mic to do any recording. Which, of course, is nowhere on your person....

[deracine]

I know, that's what is so cool! That's what really makes me like them.

But am I right -- will they pick up singing if clipped on me and I am singing along?

[deracine]

If you like that mono mic and you're used to it, and you know it works, an adapter would be easy to find. Compare it to the Griffin and just decide which sounds better. The Griffin does have two elements, a little separated, so you might get more spatial depth in the recording--a little, anyway. Separate mics do better. ... ]

So, I am back and my recording busted.

I followed your statement, if it didn't record well it wasn't meant to, and I didn't record for the other two shows, but now I am 3 weeks away to Japan and beginning to panic worried if the results I got which were beyond horrific can be corrected.

Here's a small clip:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/mz6bfr

As you can tell, the bass was through the roof. The only thing that came out clear as day was conversations around us and the MC of the vocalist. Those were pretty clear. I turned the md player itself down substantially, here's a few more facts that may or may not have had an underlying affect:

- bag/microphone on floor

- bag directly beneath vocalist's sound box under the stage

- speakers on stage, felt vibration through floor

- bass-boost not turned off on md player itself

I went to radioshack looking for that thing but called it a "bass reducer" by accident and they had no bloody clue what I was talking about; but what I want to know is -- if I get this headphone control, will that clear up the problem I experienced here? I can't simulate the surroundings exactly (until the time when I need to record unfortunately) but I turned my stereo up to its maximum and stood in the center of the room and got a pretty clear recording, I was considering trying the same in my car.

In short, I am worried that it is my microphone and that it just can't handle the sound and being in the front of an audience. However, I've recorded from the front row against the stage before and gotten excellent recording with a similar microphone.

So, in short ... HELP PLEASE ;___;

[A440]

I can't download the file from sendspace, but I assume either the mic or the preamp (in the MD) overloaded and you just got a big blare of noise.

The Radio Shack gadget is called a Headphone Volume Control. My avatar is a picture of it. If you are in England--you said "bloody"--then Maplin has a different-looking but similar thing called the VC-1.

In most cases, it should help. I haven't used your mic, so I can't be entirely sure. But you plug the mic into it, turn the headphone volume control knob to maximum (not minimum) or nearly all the way up, plug into Mic-In. Then you record with the level on the unit in Manual Volume at about 2/3 up. (Press Record and Pause so the time display is blinking, hold MENU, go to Rec Set and then Rec Volume, switch to Manual, set to about 2/3 up with the wheel. Un-Pause to start recording). Then use the volume knob on the Headphone Volume Control if you see the unit during the show and it's maxed out.

You're really making it difficult for yourself to get a good recording. The sound system isn't aiming for good sound under the stage. Even out in the room, the bass is at its worst on the floor and the rest of the band is muffled--put your head down there and listen.

Bass boost is for playback--it doesn't affect recording.

Microphones may look similar but be very different inside. Can you get back the one that made a better recording?

To be technical, the Headphone Volume Control does something helpful--lowering the overall signal going into mic-in--and not helpful, lowering the power coming out of the mic-in jack to the mic. Less power means the mic can overload easier. Usually the net effect is helpful, but depending on how much the mic needs the power, it may not be ideal. So you really just have to try it. Do it with your stereo with the bass cranked up (on the stereo speakers) and see how it turns out.

Edited November 30, 2007 by A440

[deracine]

Yep, total blare of noise pretty much. That was the first time I've ever had that happen so I was really shocked. What do you mean completely by overload; does it just mean a big blare of noise, or will the preamp/mic be broken and always record like that from that point on?

I will check out the radio shack thing. I am making it difficult for a good recording; but in the past I've never had a problem setting it on the floor and getting a decent recording. At this show; I had no other option. Our legs were literally against the stage so the bag went slightly under the curtain so that it wouldn't be kicked. The shows I attend don't offer opportunity to keep a microphone high (without being seen or the recording messed up) so I'm trying to take what I can get but not get a completely shoddy recording.

I am going to try to see if my friend will trade with me; she currently uses her microphone for Skype and if I take hers, she is microphone less but if I give her one in exchange..

The headphone volume control thing was what I'd been asking about; if this would help my situation so I didn't get another complete blare of noise. Now your directions on how to adjust the md volume to 2/3 -- is that universal? Because I don't know that we have the same models.

Maybe you can download the sound clip here; I attached it.

crap.mp3

Edited November 30, 2007 by deracine

[A440]

Overload doesn't break the preamp. It just messes up the recording.

I had the R700 once, and I've used the same settings for every unit (MZ-N707, R700, R900, NHF800, NH700, RH1) that I have owned through the years. It seems Sony hasn't changed its recording circuitry much from unit to unit, if at all.

Manual volume is better for music because sudden impacts--like drumbeats--make the automatic level control react. If you hadn't noticed a problem with your previous recordings, though, don't worry about it.

Basically, use what works. Your friend's mic and AGC (the default volume setting) worked for you--that's all that matters. As you've discovered, mics are not interchangeable. Each one will have different optimum settings--2/3 (or 20/30 on later units that show it numerically) is just a starting point.