Problem transferring tracks back to PC from NW-A808

[stantheman]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, but have viewed as a guest numerous times before. It's an absolute mine of information, but after days of researching this problem on this forum and others I havent seen any similar postings on my particular issue.

I've just bought an NW-A808 and am finding it impossible to transfer albums and tracks back to my PC from the player. I am running SS v4.3 on a Packard bell PC, approx 3 years old. I am running Windows XP Home Edition o/s. 3.5ghz Intel Pentium processor with 1GB RAM and 200 GB hard drive. Unlike other transfer problems I have read about, I have received no error messages at all in Sonic Stage or on my player. I click the left red arrow on the transfer screen of SS to transfer albums back to the player; SS looks as if it is doing the business and then the tracks just sit there on the right hand side of the screen. They play fine on the player itself and the corresponding tracks on my PC also seem to play without a problem

Most albums in my SS library have been imported directly from CD's and there are no useage rights with any of the affected tracks that I cnnot remove from the player. I've not restored my PC or used a different PC to import these CD's so for the life of me cannot figure out what the problem is. I think that I have narrowed down the problem to the codec that the original files were imported into my PC. All of the albums/tracks that will not transfer back to my player were transfered in either ATRAC3 Plus or ATRAC Advanced lossless. I have set various transfer options from PC to player including transferring in original file format; converting to ATRAC3 132kbps and other various bitrates, but the problem remains. I have had to format the player using the format option on the palyer's menu, which deleted all data and then started again as there was no other way to remove the albums from the player. Obviously all original tracks remained on my hard drive.

This is a complete pain in the arse, as I have quite a few albums imported using ATRA3 Plus, for better quality. I suppose I could re-rip them converting to ATRAC3 rather than ATRAC3 Plus to see if that will work, but don't really need the hassle and is not the point. The ATRAC3 Plus thing may just be a coincidence, but the problem doesn't appear to arise when tracks originally imported in other codecs are transferred back to my PC.

Is anyone out there aware of any known bugs with the NW-A808 or SS v4.3 which would lead to the above problem?

I've emailed Sony technical support tonight ( don't know when they will respond, but judging by other comments on this forum and elsewhere, I won't hold my breath!!) Thinking of returning player to store as only bought a couple of weeks ago, but need to know that same thing won't happen again should I get a new player.

The player itself is top draw, fantastic sound, streets ahead of the 2 GB nano it is replacing. I have been fortunate up until now that I haven't experienced any of the problems a lot of others have when using sonic stage. I have owned an NW-HD5 for years without any problems at all. Hears hoping someone can assist. many thanks in anticipation.

Edited August 21, 2007 by stantheman

[juli_]

I've just bought an NW-A808 and am finding it impossible to transfer albums and tracks back to my PC from the player. I have received no error messages at all in Sonic Stage or on my player. I click the left red arrow on the transfer screen of SS to transfer albums back to the player; SS looks as if it is doing the business and then the tracks just sit there on the right hand side of the screen.

I'm really glad you bought this up. I too have exactly the same problem with Atrac files not transferring back to the library, but instead sitting stubbornly on the player. The only option I have is to delete - then transfer them again from the library. What's stranger, is that I can transfer WMA files back to the library with no problem at all, it is only Atrac files that won't budge. I have a vague feeling it's something to do with the location for saving imported files, and the only reason I say that is because I occasionally get a message to say: "Location for saving imported files not found". I changed the saving location from the default to 'My Documents' as when I chose 'default' all my artwork disappeared. Did you by any chance change the location at all? It's quite time comsuming to have to transfer everything back again when Atrac files refuse to transfer back to the library.

I suppose I could re-rip them converting to ATRAC3 rather than ATRAC3 Plus to see if that will work

Well, I never have to re-rip the CDs again. I just delete them from the player, not the library. They're still in my SS library so I can transfer them back any time. The only extra step involved is deleting them from the player first, which is just irritating and inexplicable! Try deleting them from the player, and then re-transferring from the library. I can't see why you'd have to re-rip the CDs again

Edited August 21, 2007 by juli

[stantheman]

Hi Juli,

Thanks for the quick response. Strange one this, haven't read about this particular problem on other forums. Most of my library is in the ATRAC3 format and those files transfer back to the PC with no problems at all, it is just the ATRAC3 Plus files or ATRAC Advanced lossless tracks that are a problem.

I've not changed the location for imported files as far as I am aware. I don't know whether it's anything to do with my recent upgrade to SS v4.3? It is a right royal pain in the arse though, as the only workaround, as you rightly point out is to delete the albums/tracks off the player. The other strange thing is that some of the demo tracks that came with the player transfer ok to my library, but some are stuck stubbornly on the player. The only reason that I mentioned re-ripping the CD's to ATRAC3 rather than 3Plus was to see whether this solved the transfer problem, as this is what I think the root cause of the problem is ( although technically don't have a clue as to why this should be). This is a bit restrictive though and doesn't offer the flexibility of importing with what is a superior codec when compared to standard ATRAC 3.

I also experienced a bit of a glitch with artwork, although only on one album of approx 18 so far. The cover is displayed when viewing albums on the player, but is not displayed for each individual song. When I checked in SS, each track had album art displayed, so cannot understand what the issue is. I did note that the complitation box was ticked and am aware that this has caused some problems for other users. I also noticed that some tracks i this album had two lots of cover art stored for each track, albeit the same cover ( don't know how that one happened!)

Do you know whether you can delete whole albums from the player in one go, or whether you have to delete each individual track? I also seem to be using up a lot of memory, compared to other ATRAC devices I have had in the past, but may just have to tinker with transfer settings. I think a few files have transferred over in lossless format, which will obviously take up more space.

Once again, thanks for the response. I'll wait and see whether Sony Tech Support get back to me and post their response. Any further comments would be welcomed.

[SimonGrafftey]

I have had the same problem for ages (through several versions of SonicStage) when transferring tracks back from a number of ATRAC devices - NW-A808, NW-S706, even NW-HD1. Doesn't seem to matter what ATRAC format the tracks are (ATRAC or ATRACplus) or what bitrate. Personally it is not too much of an inconvenience as I just highlight and delete the tracks that don't transfer. I think it may have something to do with the built-in DRM in SonicStage, which is pretty much redundant now, and relates back to the early versions of the software. Originally, ripped tracks could only be transfered out a maximum of three times with out being transferred back. The early versions of the software (some may remember OpenMG) used "Check out" and "Check in" for the process. For some years now the DRM on ripped tracks has been lifted - the no. of transfer times is unlimited - so actually whether you transfer in or delete non DRM tracks from the player comes to the same thing.

I have found the most effective way of managing tracks is using playlists and the Auto transfer settings. If you tick "delect tracks from both playlists and album" in the Auto settings, any changes made to a playlist in SonicStage are then automatically made to the playlists on the device next time it is connected. This works effectively like the sync function in iTunes, and is much easier than manually transferring tracks back and forth. I also find making playlists, either manually or using dynamic playlists as easy if not easier than in iTunes.

[juli_]

name='stantheman' date='Aug 22 2007, 12:18 AM' post='26315

'I also experienced a bit of a glitch with artwork, although only on one album of approx 18 so far. The cover is displayed when viewing albums on the player, but is not displayed for each individual song.

Album art is a pain and doesn't behave the same way all the time so it's difficult to troubleshoot. How are you transferring the album art? I find the only almost-foolproof way for me, is to drag the artwork back over to the cover again, this nearly always fixes it. Also, besides the individual tracks, did you check the 'main' cover in the library? I've often noticed that even if I 'see' a main album cover in the library, under 'properties' it shows a blank cover. . . no idea why. But check this just in case.

Do you know whether you can delete whole albums from the player in one go, or whether you have to delete each individual track?

Yes, just right click on the album (make sure you haven't opened it to show all tracks) and then delete. By the way, I think Simon hit the nail on the head when he said the transfer problem could be to do with drm - either way, you don't have to rip the CDs again, just transfer then back from the library. Irritating, but not as bad as having to re-rip them all.

I also seem to be using up a lot of memory,compared to other ATRAC devices I have had in the past, but may just have to tinker with transfer settings. I think a few files have transferred over in lossless format, which will obviously take up more space.

Do you mean computer memory or space on the your player? If you mean computer, transfers place quite a strain on CPU, but if you mean space on your player, it's easy to see what format they're in, if they've transferred in lossless you'll be able to see on the player itself or by plugging it in and checking through SS.

[stantheman]

album art is a pain and doesn't behave the same way all the time so it's difficult to troubleshoot. How are you transferring the album art? I find the only almost-foolproof way for me, is to drag the artwork back over to the cover again, this nearly always fixes it. Also, besides the individual tracks, did you check the 'main' cover in the library? I've often noticed that even if I 'see' a main album cover in the library, under 'properties' it shows a blank cover. . . no idea why. But check this just in case.

I have tried various ways of transferring album art and like you have found the best way is to drag over the album art and apply to whole album. Will try again, I suppose it's just a quirk of the system, although very annoying.

Yes, just right click on the album (make sure you haven't opened it to show all tracks) and then delete. By the way, I think Simon hit the nail on the head when he said the transfer problem could be to do with drm - either way, you don't have to rip the CDs again, just transfer then back from the library. Irritating, but not as bad as having to re-rip them all.

Presumably you mean delete the albums when in the transfer screen of SS and the player is connected as opposed to deleting the albums/tracks on the player istelf, which you can do on the NW-A808. I am assuming that by right clicking and deleting the album it does not remove it from your library-just the player?

Do you mean computer memory or space on the your player? If you mean computer, transfers place quite a strain on CPU, but if you mean space on your player, it's easy to see what format they're in, if they've transferred in lossless you'll be able to see on the player itself or by plugging it in and checking through SS.

No I mean on the player itself. 12 albums has taken up 1.2 GB (all in 132kbps apart from a few albums which definitely went over in lossless format.) I'm sure this is where problem lies anyway.

Sounds like the transfer problem is just something I'll have to live with until Sony deems to sort it. Unlike Simon, I can transfer normal ATRAC tracks back to the player just not lossless or 3 Plus. I'll see whether Sony respond to my email regarding this and will post any response. I suspect they will tell me to re-install SS, re-format player etc, but they may yet surprise me! Many thanks for the comments and advice.

[stantheman]

Sorry, just another thought related to above. I am assuming that if I delete albums/tracks off the player, which cannot be transferred back to my library, that this will affect play count, track history, intelligent shuffle settings, as this information will not be transferred back to Sonicstage from the player in order to process this information and apply it to the player the next time it is connected?

[SimonGrafftey]

I think the playback information is transferred back, whether or not the tracks are transferred back or deleted on the player when connected to SonicStage. The playback data is held in the database file on the player, not in the track data itself, and I think updates centrally when the player is connected, not track by track. Also, if you delete tracks on the player using Trashbin, the transfer count etc. will still increase in SonicStage next time the player is connected to SS.

[stantheman]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the useful info, makes sense when you put it like that. I hadn't really thought about how the play history was updated.

By the way any idea whether artist link is supported on NW-A808, doesn't seem so and can't find any info on forums that I've visited? If ot I won't bother asking SS to find artist link data as takes some time to update each time.

[SimonGrafftey]

No, artist link isn't supported on the NWA800 series. The only "intelligent" functions supported are My Favourite Shuffle (which is generated in the player itself, producing a list of the 100 most played songs) and Time Machine Shuffle, which shuffles on the song year release.

Artist Link was only really available on the NW3000 and NW1000 and more recently on the NW S700 series. Originally "intelligent" playback functions were meant to be the unique selling point for the NW3000/1000 and was first built in to the disastrous Connect software which came with those machines. The frustrations of Connect created a lot of hostility, much of it reported on ATRACLife! Sony then issued a new version of SonicStage (called SonicStage CP), and added the artist link functions into SonicStage.

I'm not sure whether Sony will persevere with artist link as a function. I think originally there was a vision of creating intelligent devices which choose music for you on the basis of mood, genre, era etc., eventually being able to download tracks on the fly according to your criteria. But this highlights the "silo" problems deep within Sony - all this functionality was thought up by the network side of the business, who then ran the online download Connect business. The hardware people were never truly convinced, although the mobile phone side must be thinking this way, hence the development of the Walkman badged Sony Ericsson phones, which perversely do not use SonicStage or even support ATRAC, Sony's own proprietart format!

The Connect download business (including SonicStage) is now part of the Sony Music business, so who knows where the functionality will go next.