matt_c_j486 Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Hey There. I'm going to be attending a concert sometime soon, and they've forgotten to add a "NO RECORDERS/CAMERAS/" tag to the tickets, so I'm going to cash in while I have the chance. I've already tried once to record a concert (loud rock) and the bass completely ruined the recording, though I could hear the little jokes the lead singer made in between sets to the crowd. My question is whether there is some "magic" way that will allow me to have a decent recording with my sony, and remain inconspicuos while doing it. Does anyone have any techniques, or stories, or tips on live recording (especially loud arena-rockish type music)? Thanks for your input, and mods, if this topic is violating anything, please let me off the hook a little, I'm new here :wink: Matt. Sony Mzn-707 w/ SP-TFB-2 Sound Professionals In-Ear Binaural microphones I generally put the md on my hip, the mics in my two shirt pockets and pray that the recording will work. Oh, and are otterboxes worth it for possible moshpit scenarios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazirker Posted December 9, 2002 Report Share Posted December 9, 2002 The reason you get so much bass is because you have the mic in your shirt pocket. Bass sounds, due to their lower wavelength, travel through material with less loss of amplitude (volume) than higher frequencies. As a result, more treble sound gets lost than bass, so bass is recorded a lot louder. If you want to remain inconspicuous, try this. Get some regular open air headphones, put them around your neck, plug them into the mic jack, then record that way. Usually that doesn't work as well, but if the concert is loud, then you shouldn't have a problem. Try experimenting with this at home some before you try it at a concert and see if you have a pair of headphones that sounds better than others and such. This trick works for me, hopefully it will for you to. Out of curiousity, could you post whether or not it works for you? Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 Most likely the sound level at a rock concert would horribly overload the microphone preamp and A/D converter in the MD recorder. My MZ-R70 is overloaded by loud talking a foot from the microphone. Note that with most MD recorders, the digital record level control is AFTER the A/D, so turning it down below 0 doesn't prevent A/D overload. The most successful rock concert recordings are most likely made using MD recorders with a battery box to power the microphones which are connected to the LINE input of the MD. Recording too low a level doesn't loose resolution on an MD as one would with a CD because of the MD's scale factor. (This, of course, does not eliminate loss-of-resolution in the A/D, but it does keep the recorded resolution at the full 16 bits unless the level is very low.) Therefore, err by recording at low level, not high! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zpeidar Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 What will happen if you overload/have input at too high a level? You can use earphones as mics, never thought of that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystyler Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 What will happen if you overload/have input at too high a level? You'll get clipping and distortion like you've never heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zpeidar Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 You'll get clipping and distortion like you've never heard.Any damage to the unit, like speakers playing to loud, or just a really messed up recording, (I did a recording, and got it really ugly and croppy and stuff, max sound all the time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 No damage will occur to the unit with too high volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 No damage will occur to the unit with too high volume.Well, if I was to use my MD to "record" a powerpoint, then I'd be getting a loud 50Hz sine wave of smoke, that is my guess . There would be a point where an extreme volume levels will damage a unit... but by the time that happens, you probably have other things worth worrying about (did you know that at about 160dB, your hair catches fire?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturob Posted December 26, 2002 Report Share Posted December 26, 2002 I just got my own MZ-N707 and a companion, the MS-907 microphone. I've been doing some recording today and I'm quite happy with its performance. About this recording-level thing . . . I know how to set it manually, but I read in the manual that when left on its own, the unit "automatically" sets the recording level. What's people's experience with this auto-level-setting? Is it a fixed setting, or does the unit actually adjust the levels? Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 The automatic feature of the n707 is pure crap, and it should never be used when trying to record music - a lecture or a conversation is ok. It does, supposedly automatically adjust the input levels, but that normally happens after the distortion already has occured, which renders it useless. I am having troubles with my n707 too in that when I try to record music thats outisde the range and/or too loud I get distortion. I suppose a battery module will fix this, but I'm not completely certain of it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 If you're prepared to do a bit of amateur electronics, recording really loud stuff can be done. Two parts of this. 1. The usual microphones used for this equipment (the "electret" type) use a sealed capsule, and the movements of the capsule wall create the electric output. They're called capacitor microphones etc. These puppies respond too much to very low frequency tones to be great for concerts with lots of base. I have had trouble with picking up subsonic rumbles from air conditioning equipment etc & subsonic pressure waves from winds in the open air with these - if you look at their waveform output with an oscilloscope it's clear they respond way down to subsonic frequencies, so string bases & big base drums freak them out by making them respond so much they go non-linear - the overloading can be from what you feel from the pressure waves, not necessarily the audible sound. There are two ways to deal with this bit - either wire a capacitor (condensor) in series with the mic's output, effectively filtering out the very low base (but does not solve the basic non-linear problem), Or, much better, deliberately select a fairly insensitive "dynamic" microphone, which works on a different principle, much less sensitive to very low frequency pressure waves, and select one with a low-frequency rolloff to suit (e.g. Radioshack sells dynamic mics for voice use which start to filter out output below 40 Hz or even 70 Hz). 2. To solve the general overloading problem at higher frequencies, you, or a buddy, can buy, or build an "attentuator". They only consist of two resistors (per channel) in a tiny tin box/can of some sort, with an "in" socket & "out" plug on a wire - mic plug goes into socket - output plug on wire (has to be screened = shielded) goes into mic input socket on MD recorder. The ratio of the resistors determines how much of the mic's output gets out at the "out" end. That way you can try different ratios to suit. Anyone who knows any simple electronics stuff could draw you the circuit diagram, and explain it, and the parts would be really inexpensive. In theory this slightly increases the input hiss ("noise") to the MD recorder, but in practice you could never notice it if the band was really loud. Hope that's useful, Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 I just recorded a loud show with an N707. All you need are some binaural mics W/ a battery module plugged into the LINE IN, not the mic input. Then adjust the recording mode to manual so you can set the levels yourself. I used the battery module with bass roll off settings, and with the binaural mics i used the highest bass roll off setting. The recording turned out even better than I expected it to, and it was the first show I'd ever recorded. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Hi Guys I've been bootlegging gis for a few years (mostly of our own band) and its an art in itself. The principle difficulty with condensor mics is not just that they are non-linear in the bass spectrum, but also that the polarizing voltage for the mic input used by MDs (and some battery box video mics i've tried) is too low to provide enough headroom when the bass is banging out. In this case the mic is actully clipping BEFORE the input is amplified. I've measured this with a 'scope. In this case no adjustment of the input level will help. The best solution (but more conspicuous) is to use dynamic mics (sm57/58) removed from their casing. They are a bit big, but you can't beat the dynamic range. Alternatively, there are electret capsules tht operate at higher bias voltages. These will gve reasonable results in such an environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Report Share Posted January 12, 2003 If you're looking for mics that wont distort very easily Try www.stealthaudio.net and check out there premium binaurals and cardoids IMHO there mics are better than sound professionals plus they are alot cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 I tried the old reliable tiny one-point stereo mic that came with my AIWA HSJ cassette recorders, which has been surprisingly hi-fi in past circumstances. Directly into the mic input on the MZ707, the bass distorted unlistenably, of course, and Sony "customer service" was clueless. The recommended Sony mics, the ECM 907 and the ECM-717, both only go down to 100 hz according to their specs. But there's an octave of notes below that on a piano. My fix: Radio Shack makes a headphone volume control (#42-2559) and I thought I'd try it as an input instead of an output. Bingo: a small, simple realtime recording-level control, able to handle a funk bass section, and the mic (I think it's Aiwa CM-S20) sounds better than it does with a cassette. While it may not be audiophile quality, I suspect it would sound even better with a better mic. Cost: $5.99. Definitely worth a try with your own mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 I checked out the Stealth Audio mics and battery boxes, and I'm wondering if getting the level controls option on the battery box would be worth it. Would this just be an output level control that would essentially duplicate the manual record level adjustment on my 707? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 Yes it would, its an option we have for those who have recorders that dont allow you to change the levels while recording. Im not sure if the 707 falls under that category but i know most other sonys do. Thanks Scott Verbeek Stealth Audio Microphones www.stealthaudio.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 All you need are some binaural mics W/ a battery module plugged into the LINE IN, not the mic input. If you find your recordings are too quiet with your mics+battery module plugged into the battery module you can plug into the mic in with an attenuator cable between the module and the recorder Thanks Scott Verbeek Stealth Audio Microphones www.stealthaudio.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumatjan Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 I've got two questions 1: Is it possible to lock n707 in the "manual recording level"-mode? 2: How can I amplify the sound if the record level is to low? /Björn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonMagus Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 Personally, I would go the route of a battery module added to a good mic hookup - your in-ear binaurals are a good choice - with bass rolloff set to about 100-107dB for the really loud stuff. It seems to be the simplest choice - especially for the non-tech savvy like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ghidora Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 I tried the old reliable tiny one-point stereo mic that came with my AIWA HSJ cassette recorders...I have exactly mic equipment that you describe. I have the Aiwa mic that came with my Aiwa MS-J470 cassette walkman/recorder (had that for years - I wore it out I played it so much) and the Radio Shack volume control you mention. I tried using the Aiwa cassette to record live concerts and got nothing but distortion of course. Should have had the volume control when I tried it. I haven't had a chance to use the volume control at a live show but I've been working with the mic, the volume control, my Sony MZ-R70 and my home stereo (running 450 watts per channel so it plays pretty LOUD . I also have the Sony ECM MS-907 mic. Here's what I notice. The Aiwa just doesn't compare with the Sony when it comes to sound quality though it isn't bad either. There's definetely more response in the lower ranges. I'd like to see a response curve on the Aiwa mic. I suspect it goes far lower than the Sony. But of course response curves can be misleading. Just because it doesn't respond up to the specified db level at below 100 Hz it doesn't mean it has no response at all. The Sony does pick up sounds below that range but they are definitely somewhat lower than they should be. I suspect the Sony might keep me from getting the brick wall effect from too much low frequency response because it doesn't respond as well below 100 Hz. I haven't actually seen this work yet though. It's also true that the Sony picks up much more background noise than the Aiwa. That could be bad in a noisy enviorment where either crowd noise or moving air could make for a very noisy recording. I intend to take both mics with me when I try to record anything live. I've been asked to record a local bluegrass band to see how well it comes out so I expect to get some results soon. I'm thinking about getting a battery box with a pre-amp so I can use both mics at once (one with my new Sony N505). I guess I'll have more to say later about what works best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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