MZ-N707, mics and uploading live recordings

[chenners]

Hello:

I've just recently stumbled across the minidisc because I wanted an inexpensive way to record my friend's open-mic performances, as well as getting some live recording of some of my favorite bands for tapetrades and such. I purchased the Sony MZ-N707 MD & the Sony ECM 719 Microphone on eBay, and I have been using an old Toshiba clip-on microphone (which came with a Toshiba Recording Walky KT-4098, circa 1980s!) for recordings until the ECM-719 mic is delivered.

So far, I've been impressed with the recordings (both indoor & outdoor open mic performances), although I've had to fiddle around with the Toshiba mic to get rid of the humming feedback due to a short cable. However, I am concerned about:

1) the compatibility of the 719 microphone with the MZ-N707 MD and

2) the sound quality of live performance recordings (I have yet to do these recordings).

I did some reading prior to posting, and most of the entries with the MZ-N707 mention great sound quality recording, but with the 717 mic. In addition, there's a discussion about the use of headphone volume control/attenuator cord. The performances I would like to record (covertly) from will be in a rather small venue, and if I can get there early enough, I'll get seating close to the stage area. But then, I'm worried that this will be too close and that it'll pick up too much bass and the recordings will be muffled.

In addition, I've been having difficulty uploading the open-mic shows to my PC. I've installed the software that comes with the package, but it doesn't recognize the MD when I attach it via the USB. (Ahem: I'm also biased because I've read reviews on minidisc.org about how "crappy" OpenMG Jukebox is...and I've come across the petition to Sony about this issue). I've spent several frustrating hours trying to upload the open-mic performances for my friend, and so far, it's a no go. (Curses!)

However, I've realized that the PC I'm working on has Canopus DV Storm but this is totally wasted on me, as I'm not that technologically savvy yet.

I figured that I should go straight to the source and post my question here at the minidisc community. Any feedback and/or comments would be greatly appreciated. I'll be taking my MD to record this coming Tuesday and am looking forward to it...Hopefully I'll find some way of getting those performances onto the PC and onto a CD!

Cheers

[A440]

First of all, I've been making live recordings with my MZ-N707 for a year, and I love it.

The only way to "upload" recordings from the MZ-N707 is by using a recording program on your PC in realtime.

Any other hardware or software company (like Mironics) that promises uploading is misleading. Sony has fixed it so it's realtime only, no file upload. End of story.

But it's no big deal to record to PC in realtime.

A good free recording program is Audacity, or if that Canopus has a sound recording program you can use that.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Audacity will record the MD as one long track to be edited.

If you already have tracks titled and edited you can use WinNetMD instead, which records the tracks individually and picks up the titles via the NetMD USB connection. It's under $20. It does require the (free) Windows .net framework, which is a big download--probably not for dial-up users.

http://christian.klukas.bei.t-online.de/fi...md/winNetMD.htm

Either way, just connect a miniplug-to-miniplug cord from MD headphone out to soundcard Line-in. Get rid of any adjustments you've made to Sound (go through the menus and select Sound Off). In Windows, set the Windows Recording Mixer to pick up Line In (there's a check box.) The first time, you should test to adjust the recording level so it's not too soft or distorting (use the volume control on the MD to alter the sound coming out--try starting with it about halfway up). Once you have settings you like, write them down and use them forever. Click the record button on Audacity or WinNetMD, start the MD, go have dinner and come back and you'll have the recording on your PC.

The ECM 719 is definitely compatible with the MZ-N707. The drawback of the MZ-707 is that it does not have a Low Sensitivity setting for Mic-In, so that anything loud or with low bass notes distorts. It's not muffled--it's an unlistenable blare.

The ECM 719 tries to get around the bass problem by only picking up notes down to 100hz, which if you're a musician is the low G on the bass clef. It simply ignores anything lower. So for the open-mic recordings, probably just voice and guitar, it's picking up nearly everything (except the very lowest notes on the E string). For a full live band, with bass and drums, it may either overload from the volume or sound tinny.

The headphone volume control works as a substitute for a Low Sensitivity setting. It acts as a kind of buffer, lowering the signal into the MZ-N707 so it doesn't overload. Tinniness comes from the mic itself. Try the ECM 719 with headphone volume control and without it, and if the ECM 719 gives you good results, use it. If not, look for a mic that picks up 20-20,000 Hz, like your ears do. You can find them for around $60 or less.

[chenners]

"...either way, just connect a miniplug-to-miniplug cord from MD headphone out to soundcard Line-in."

uh...haven't looked around for one of these cords yet, so could you suggest one? i do have one of the red/yellow-audio R/audio L cords but they don't connect to the mz-n707

also: the recordings from the MZ-N707? WONDERFUL! i didn't even have to use the headphone volume control (even when standing right in front of the speakers @ amoeba!)

[A440]

The cord is just a basic cord, and you should be able to find it at Radio Shack or maybe even a hardware store for under $5. It looks like your stereo headphone plug on both ends.

Look at your computer to make sure you have a Line-in jack on your soundcard. If it's a desktop, it may be on the back; if it's a laptop, it's probably near the headphone jack. If (as on my laptop) all you see is a jack for the headphone and a microphone jack (with a little microphone icon) then you can try recording through the microphone jack, but you'll have to use much lower volume coming out of the MD, because the mic jack may distort if the incoming signal is too loud. If you record with Audacity, you can watch what's coming in and see if it's distorting, or just monitor it through the computer headphone jack.

If all you have is a mic jack and you're going to be doing this often, I'd recommend getting that Griffin iMic sooner or later because you'll get much better quality from the recording.

Oh yeah, while you're recording into the PC, try not to trigger any sounds--You've Got Mail!, program noises, etc.--because you'll end up recording them too, since they go through the soundcard. Or you can go into Settings-->Control Panel-->Sounds and get rid of them forever.

[chenners]

a440:

well, it seems you read minds as well, because i was JUST about to ask you if getting griffin's iMic was a good idea.

thanks for the heads up on that.

and also thanks for the notice about no background noise. i had a not-so funny incident of that happening when "recording" ram files to mp3s.

now as far as the line in on the soundcard: what in the world am i looking for again? on the back of the PC tower, i see the generic attachments for printer, mouse, headphones & USB, but...soundcard? on the very bottom of the tower, there is what appears to look like an S-Video connection with Audio In/Out, Video In/Out and a slot for DV connection. huh? i'm not explaining this very well..would a photo help?

cheers,

chenners

[anont]

a440:  

well, it seems you read minds as well, because i was JUST about to ask you if getting griffin's iMic was a good idea.

thanks for the heads up on that.

now as far as the line in on the soundcard: what in the world am i looking for again?  on the back of the PC tower, i see the generic attachments for printer, mouse, headphones & USB, but...soundcard? on the very bottom of the tower, there is what appears to look like an S-Video connection with Audio In/Out, Video In/Out and a slot for DV connection. huh? i'm not explaining this very well..would a photo help?  

cheers,

chenners

If I can butt in, It probably looks like a 1/8" plug, perhaps with a pink circle around it, and is probably right near the audio out of your computer.

Usually computers come with built-in sound, that isn't particularly good. If might be worth getting not just an iMic, but an external USB sound card. I have Soundblaster's most recent one, it sounds great except the shielding isn't so great, you have to keep it some distance from other electronics.

As for recording, I haven't tried Audacity. I used an older version of Magix's Audio cleaner. It's very convenient, the audio cleaner CAN work surprisingly well (even though I'm opposed to the concept) and it doesn't record system noises. It can be gotten cheap used, on Amazon or EBay.

[A440]

Anont is right--Line Out is probably near your headphone jack, same size jack. It might be on the front of the computer, too, which makes things easier to plug in.

It may also be the one labeled Audio In--does that have a jack like the one for your headphones, or is it two separate channels like a stereo? Whatever gets the audio into your computer, that's what you want. You can find any kind of connector.

If you have the original specs for the computer, it should tell you what kind of soundcard you have, or try Settings/Control Panel/System/Device Manager and open up the + for "Sound, Video and Game Controllers" to see what the model of the soundcard is. (Then you can probably go to the manufacturer's website and see where the Line-In is.) But if it's a desktop you ought to have a Line-in somewhere.

My laptop didn't have a line-in at all, so in my own setup, I was using a Griffin iMic for a while, and it worked fine for recording, which is why I recommend it as a budget solution.

But then I got tempted by a good deal on a Creative Extigy, an external soundcard with all kinds of connections including optical. Creative sells refurbished ones (guaranteed working) for $70 on Ebay, and others are always there. It is an improvement generally on sound from the laptop, and may improve a desktop if the installed card is not so hot.

If you get one, though, watch out for its software, which tries to take over every sound function on the computer. Do a Custom installation and don't put in anything that looks unnecessary.

[chenners]

Well, after trekking to Radio Shack to pick up the 1/8" to 1/8" cord for $4.99 plus tax and rushing home to fiddle with the computer, I've finally got the live recordings into my computer. BIG Applause goes to A440 with special thanks to Anont.

HOWEVER

I didn't think ahead to download & save the Audacity program so I can use it at home. Sadly enough, my home PC doesn't have Internet connection but my Mac does, only that's not helpful for the Sony MD I have (humm..or is it? Wondering whether the iMic would work with Audacity & MZ-N707 on mac).

In any case, there's still work that needs to be done. I'm currently alternating between using RealProducer Plus and Windows Media Encoder. I know Sony's been pretty touchy about copyrights and stuff, and since I am eager to share the new sounds I've got while supporting the artists...I'm thinking of uploading 30sec clips as enticement for the tapetrade. Besides, 1) I had to turn the sound WAY up for it to be recorded and 2) if I were to save the entire song(s) as .ram files, there's bound to be conversion/loss, say transfer to MP3, to WAV file or to CD later.

Now besides seriously drooling over the optical attachment on the Creative Extigy, I think I may be going with the cheaper alternative of the iMic (for now anyway, ha!). Either that, or I'll have to find a cord that's compatible with the Canopus DVStorm setup on the front of the PC tower (I think that's geared more for video though.)

Who knew when I got into this that I'd get soo hooked? But damnit, it's so much fun.

Cheers

P.S. A440: So, with the Creative Extigy, you just plug it in via USB and plug the MD in with an optical cable and wha-la, music into the PC?

[A440]

>>>>P.S. A440: So, with the Creative Extigy, you just plug it in via USB and plug the MD in with an optical cable and wha-la, music into the PC?>>>>

Unfortunately, no. The only way out of the MD player is via the headphone jack, which is analog.

With MD, the optical is for the other direction: PC to MD. But it's faster and easier with Simple Burn via USB.

Audacity has versions for both Mac and PC (and even Linux), so if your Mac has a line-in, you're also in business. Or download the PC version of Audacity on your Mac, burn it to CD, install in PC and....