Converting to .wav using USB link: How to Make It Work?

[Aniblade]

Like many here, I am a musician who would like to record live with my new Hi MD and then upload my recordings and convert to .wav format so that I can make CDs of my material. Following the suggestions of many who have tried to record in real time from their Hi MD using the USB connection, I have had mixed results. I have mainly been using Sound Forge to record the USB input from my recorder. For some reason, the results are not good. For example, I recorded myself singing without instruments in a quiet room, just to hear how it would sound. I then connected my Hi MD unit and recorded using the Wave recording input. I was intending to maintain the digital quality of the recording. Oddly, dynamic changes handled well in the PCM mode were completely exaggerated when I recorded the Hi MD playing through USB. I had no other programs running at the same time so there was no obvious reason for this. Also, there were unnatural silences between sung phrases like something was causing complete compression of quiet sounds to zero. In the end, the recording sounded terrible and I concluded that Sony had done something with the "SonicStage" software to preclude recording via USB. I will continue to try to figure out a way to make this work but I wonder if anyone has any idea how to get around these odd artifacts.

Incidentally, I did try to use the "Line in" recording setting through USB and got an enormous amount of noise from the sound card. Not good! I'm hoping that's not the best I can do at this point. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[dex Otaku]

Try out Total Recorder. It's not expensive, and it works well. I've been uploading my PCM recordings from my MZ-NH700 using sonicstage and then copying them out using Total Recorder for editing purposes.

Hopefully Sony releases their wave converter soon.

I haven't tried recording through USB, mainly because the whole idea seems flawed to me.

[Aniblade]

Thanks for the suggestions, dex Otaku. I'm not familiar with Total Recorder. Does it recognize .omg files and allow you to edit and save them in .wav format? If not, how are you working with the .omg files once they are uploaded? That's where I got stuck and haven't been able to find answers.

Incidentally, I have finally been able to get absolutely good recordings in real time by tweaking my "Wave" recording settings to a lower setting. I guess I must have been overdriving the audio even though the meters in Sound Forge didn't show this. Just minutes ago I checked out the material I burned to CD and it was excellent. I would much prefer to upload the files and work that way, but this is at least a workable and fine quality solution until Sony releases their wave converter.

[dex Otaku]

See http://www.highcriteria.com/

Total recorder inculdes a driver [proxy really] that looks like a sound card, and routes what you play - from anything - straight to its recorder when it's open. So - you press play in SonicStage, press record in Total Recorder, and it copies the stream that would normally be going to your sound card straight to a file. No D/A and A/D conversions involved. It also routes the output to your sound card at the same time, so you can hear it.

[Aniblade]

Thanks, dex Otaku, this works fine also and has the advantage of allowing me to work with uploaded files (as opposed to having to edit a whole disc's worth of stuff at one time). Like you, I'm hoping that Sony releases the Wave Converter so that we won't have to do conversions in real time. Any ideas on how to batch convert a series of files using Total Recorder?

[dex Otaku]

You could use the built-in scheduler for that, but otherwise - no, no idea how to do batch conversions.

[AllanH]

For what its worth, some experience from brief use of NH900:

1 Recording in PCM mode, the results using Sony MS957 Mic + external ADC +optical input are quieter than using the mic directly into the Mic input and the on-board ADC. No surprise I suppose.

2 Recording level adjustment , (both optical and analogue) can be done 'on the fly' provided 'manual record level' mode is selected in Record/Pause, before recording starts. Manual record level mode cannot be accessed once recording has begun.

Level adjustments are noiseless - no clips/pops/bleeps/sound dropouts.

3a Transfer of recordings from NH900 to a PC file via Sonic Stage 2.0 is permitted once only. Why?

3b Playback of a recording into the PC vai Sonic Stage is allowed without restriction, at least for an original microphone recording. Presumably this is the 'playback via USB' that has been mentioned in other posts.

4 Transfer to a .wav file.

Files transferred to the PC via Sonic Stage 2.0 are captured in OpenMG format. My sound recording programme (Wavelab Lite) does not recognise Open MG files. However, playing the OpenMG file using Sonic Stage produces a .wav output into the soundcard. This can then be recorded using Wavelab and saved as a .wav file.

The same can be done with a recording played back from the NH900 into the PC, as in 3b above.

Result: PCM recordings transferred to .wav files which can be edited as required without any further use of Sonic Stage. This may be of interest to those (like me) who do not have Total Recorder loaded on their PC.

It's slow, but it works.

I'm one happy bunny!

For information: soundcard used was EMU 1212. Wavelab Lite was bunded with the card.

[Markr041]

I have used Total Recorder in the 2-step process (copy from minidisc to Sonic stage, then playing the file in Sonic Stage while recording in Total Recoder) and the 1-step process (playing the disc through Sonic Stage directly to Total Recorder). There is no difference that I can detect in the resulting wav files from each other or the original (in PCM).

I don't understand the comment "I haven't tried recording through USB, mainly because the whole idea seems flawed to me." What am I missing?

I have already made two PCM recording of concerts using the 800, and it is a dream that I can get PCM recordings that I can edit on the computer with no DA conversion. I can now get rid of my DAT machines - which also required real time playing to get data into the computer, but no instant access and constant worry about tape fouling and breakage.

[dex Otaku]

Hey,

"mainly because the whole idea seems flawed to me" .. because I just don't trust it. Too many bad experiences trying to do things this way or ways like it, I suppose. Stick in the mud.

However - Jadeclaw pointed out in another thread under tech support:

One word about transferring: If you have a valuable recording, that cannot be repeated, DON'T upload it, record it directly off the USB-playback. 

Why? Because you can only upload a track once. Even if you tell SonicStage to leave a copy on the MD, you cannot upload it again. Not even to the same PC. Even if you delete the track from SonicStage, you cannot upload it again, despite the fact, that it is still in its entirety on the MD. And to edit it in SonicStage, you have to tell it to delete the original track from the MD and if SS crashes in that moment, the recording is gone. Already happened to me.

And he's perfectly right! If you're transferring using SonicStage and the transfer gets buggered, it might still get marked as copied - meaning the track can't be copied again.

So - I'll be doing it the USB copy way from now on.

[Markr041]

Indeed. I had the experience of "transferring" into Sonic Stage where the recording had small silences caused, evidently, by running processes. The Sonic Stage files are ruined, and I cannot ever try again to get them into Sonic Stage. I can still play the original disc files with Sonic Stage and copy them with TR, thank goodness.

BTW, to get uninterrrupted (no drop-outs) bit-perfect recordings I have to stop almost all processes on my machine.

I hope that when Sony comes out with its wave converter, it also removes the one-time transfer restriction for own analog recordings.

I don't get these restrictions on transferring and copying, which are essentially ineffective against getting bit-perfect copies, but are a big nuisance. Just like the refusal of the recorder to remember to stay in manual mode - a nuisance that makes recording hard for those who want good recordings. Is this just a silly tax on bootlegging?

[dex Otaku]

I consider it rather ironic that Sony went to all this DRM trouble only to have it completely and utterly defeated by a $39 piece of software - before the format was even released.

Markr041: Long silences? Having to stop all processes? That's weird - on my machine I have things like apache, answering machine software, IM client, web browser, email client, iTunes, etc. all running simultaneously and have never experienced anything like this.

Do you have a really slow computer, or do you just have a lot of extraneous software running? Souns like your machine need a good run at being optimised.

[Markr041]

It's even more ironic than that, since the $11.95 version of Total recorder does the trick.

[jadeclaw]

But before shelling out $11,95, check, what is included with the soundcard. Some of that stuff is quite useable. And giving Audacity a try can't be bad either.

[Aniblade]

Hello all. I was away for a short time and returned to a rather pleasant email from Rachel Branch, a representative from Sony. The email was a response to my direct inquiry about the .wav converter software. I wanted to know *if* it was really going to be produced by Sony and if so, *when* we should expect it. Her answer, via someone named "Christine Battagliese" was as follows:

-----Original Message-----

From: Battagliese, Christine

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:28 AM

To: Branch, Rachel

Cc: Laronne, Shai; Novelli, Joe

Subject: RE: News & Info query: Wave Converter

The WAV Converter Tool will be available in Fall '04. You can check back at

the Sony Support Site at www.sony.com/walkmansupport.

I know news of this converter has been on this site for quite some time, but I thought I would confirm it yet again. I think this is encouraging.