Timbo Sony

Thanks for the reply PhilippeC. I will contact phamcu and obtain the data. This could be a useful money saving tip!

Hello All, I've noticed with the increasing rarity of KMS260A/B lasers is pushing the price up, but the "E" version is still very cheap. It's probably only a minor difference, but does anyone know if the "E" laser version can be used in place of the "A & B" versions in decks like the 20ES, 333ES and 555ES models which are worth maintaining due to their superior performance? Perhaps the EPROM settings would be quite different compared to the original? Thanks

This is very interesting stuff and helping me to work out how the whole loading process of an MD disc works. Is there a "black book" for MD like there is for CD? I did go on a Sony MD training course in 1999, but have forgotten a lot of the theory. Back to my faulty 333ES: I'm trying to source a small number of BF6511FS and CXA2523AR (BD board motor driver and processor) which is where I think the fault lies. I haven't scoped the pins of the IC's yet, just check the correct supplies are there because of time. Jonathan, I notice on your YouTube video of the 20ES resurrection you replaced these two IC's for a very similar fault. Did the faulty 20ES not have any focusing/sled or spindle action too? Thanks!

Thanks Jonathan for that info. Can anyone also confirm the laser parameters are held in the EPROM on the BD board, so in theory if can swap the whole mech with the BD board into a similar deck and it would work? Thanks

Thanks all for the input and interesting comments. Sony released a tech bulletin about the differences in the 260A and B lasers, the glue is a different colour but can't remember the other differences but there is some compatibility I think. I will find it out and attach. Back to the faulty 333ES, what is the disc loading procedure? I think it's once the MD is loaded laser power up for reflectivity, focus to find track containing the TOC then spin the disc to read? Iv'e sorted the ribbon cables, yes can be very troublesome. I've got no focus, sled or spindle action even in test modes. Laser does light. Would laser power levels cause this? I still suspect IC's on the BD board. Thanks

The two BD's boards are identical apart from IC121 which is the main ATRAC and digital signal processor etc. I suspect the firmware would be different too in the EPROM. All connectors match and board architecture match. The fault symptom now is Read Error C13. As the laser doesn't go through the focus routine on loading a disc even though it lights up, I suspect the Driver and/or Focus Tracking Error Amp IC's. Is Jim off limits now on this forum? I don't want to bother him if he's not wanting to be contacted.

Right, had a chance to do a bit more work on this since coming back from working away. The 20ES MD mech was causing the deck relay to cycle on and off. On closer inspection the ATRAC chip is different. The 333ES uses a CXD2662R (MDLP), while the 20ES employs the earlier CXD2656R. I swapped the BD boards so the CXD2662R chip is on the working mech from the 20ES. The unit will now power up normally, will load a disc but displays no disc after attempting to read the TOC. The laser does not appear to be focusing. I've checked the 5v and 3.3v rails, and all seem to be present on IC152 the focus/tracking/spindle & sled motor driver. I'm starting to suspect this IC could be the cause. Does anyone know if this is likely to be the case, a known fault or any other checks I should make first? The laser is known to be good and I have entered the laser power into the EPROM using the procedure in the manual, the only thing I have not done is the check with the laser power meter (not got one). But the laser should still pump up and down anyway. Thanks!

Are there any more laser's available please?

Hmmmm, the LA5643 IC system reset is triggered depending on the VBAK condition on pin 11, which in turn is connected to the lithium battery. The battery looked a bit bent out of place and is easily knocked by removing the deck. Perhaps the rough handling has caused damage here. Time to remove the POW board and do some checks. A job for an other day, it's far too late.

Original OPU definitely faulty, got a spare. Ribbon cables are OK, perhaps not a coms issue with IC801. IC280 on the POW board is the Regulator/Reset Gen, need to check around here me thinks.

Hi, the deck will not power up with or without the mech connected. Symptoms are exactly the same- no display and constant clicking of relay RY901. So this makes me wonder if there's a problem with one of the ribbon cables, perhaps damaged by the rough treatment of the person who butchered it in the first place. I know these ribbon cables are a bit fragile. If the micro can't communicate it goes into a mode something like this but no mention in the service manual. There must be some one out there who knows! Photos show inside the deck with the donor mech fitted, actually the condition isn't too bad otherwise. The 2nd is the faulty mech as found in the 333ES, suspect someone had a go at either changing the laser and gave up, discovered it wasn't the fault and gave up......or was just poking around........then gave up!

Took delivery of a faulty MDS-JA333ES won on an auction site. Listed as faulty so worth a look. Quite a heavy beast! With the lid off it was clear someone had been tampering, MD mech had screws missing and ribbon cables left unconnected. On taking out the mech the BD PCB had been unsoldered to get at the laser so it's probably duff. Put that to one side to reassemble to try in another machine. I've got a spare 20ES with the same MD mech so put that it in. On power up no display with the main power relay RY901 cycling on and off, no display or response to any buttons including test mode. Checked the obvious for other leads removed- I do know if the micro can't talk to the mech it will click the relay and not power up, but can't see any other evidence of messing around. The service manual doesn't say anything from what I can see about no powering up faults. Could just be a case of checking all supplies are present but the relay is controlled by IC801 display control IC, so I think it's trying to tell me something. Any ideas anyone? Thanks! PS, is Jim Hogarth still around? Don't want to pester him if he is not part of the forum currently.

Hello all, Not done a servo alignment as fault only occurred on one disc. Sorry not been back to this topic for a while as promised, but I did say I would report back on comparisons between the 20ES & 30ES: It seems as if the 20ES has a common bug that appears when writing the TOC after a recording session. I just power off at the mains for a few secs which resolves the fault.....till the next time. Happens one in every 8 times I record with it so not too bothered and it seems to be a common thing with these models. The 30ES doesn't always like very track I record on the 20. Playback stutters on the latter tracks till near the end it comes almost to a complete stop. Doesn't happen with every disc though, it's a bit random. Sound is good from both machines. I made a series of master discs on the 20. Then due to the compatibility issue with the 30, played back into a HHB CD recorder from the 20 to listen to in the car's CD auto changer. Sound quality is superb, much better than the previous MD unit I used. More bass and a much clear and open sound even though the music has been through so many machines. The 30 sounds perhaps a bit less harsh then the 20, but both are superb machines. Next I'm working on a faulty MDS-JA333ES from that auction site. Known to have a fault so got it cheap, will create a new topic for it.

More on the JA20ES "crashing": when coming to the end of a particular disc it displays "C13 Record Error". Sometimes it's just displayed "Record Error" and "Disc Full", but there's a good few mins left on it. The disc can be heard spinning at speed and the deck does not respond to buttons or remote control commands. I've opened it up, cleaned and blown the dust out of the laser but I suspect it could be the spindle motor. I did notice that disc had quite a wobble on it as if it's off centre. So I tried a brand new disc and this recorded to the end with no problem, but the "wobbly" disc still wouldn't be recorded to, there's perhaps up to 20 mins remaining on it. The next step is to try that disc in the 30ES I suppose to isolate it as the cause. I can't see how a disc would become faulty and develop a severe concentric imbalance, but it would test the tracking and focus servos. Perhaps the disc was left in direct sunlight and has become warped as a result. Had that happen to vinyl in the past. Has anyone got a spare spindle motor or know a source? Thanks! Tim

Hello bluecrab! Thanks for the reply and comments on my efforts with my 30ES!! Certainly will post a comparison between the two decks. It may take a while though as I'm still getting to grips with both machines. Most of my back catalogue of recordings were done on the JE530 which is a Type R ATRAC, but inferior build and DACS etc to either ES machine so need to make new recordings on both to compare. Most of my recording nowadays is from online radio stations at at least 320kbs so perhaps not the best source either. So far only one disc has refused to play on the 30ES although it started OK and got progressively worse (audio dropping out), and that was recorded sometime ago on the JE530. Yet to try it on the 20ES. The 20ES has twice crashed on me when using second hand discs bought on ebay recorded on who knows what deck, but never had a deck crash on me previously so will need to keep an eye on that. Will post more when I've spent more time working with them both. All the best

Following the recent repair to the JA30ES, I've just purchased a JA20ES to compliment the earlier machine. All seems well so far but I understand the 30ES doesn't always like recordings made on slightly later Type R machines, has anyone else had this problem? My plan is to use the 20ES as the main recording machine and playback on the 30ES deck which is also connected by optical connector to a CD recorder for making CD's of mastered minidiscs. This might make the lasers last a bit longer too if I share use between two decks.

Thanks both for your input but I have found the fault!! I changed IC905 the 5v reg but fault still present so removed the smoothing cap C919 and the laser focused and disc spun! So the cap was dragging down the supply but on inspection there's no sign of the cap leaking which is what I would expect. Anyway I've cleaned the laser and blown the dust out of it with aero duster and tested it making a recording and all seems fine, just reassembling now. I would however like to keep a laser in stock if there are becoming increasingly rare so if you can let me know when you track one down please phamcu, thanks. Thanks to everyone who have been helpful, brilliant forum and will be a regular visitor! Let's keep Minidisc alive!

Update: No +5v on CN201 on the DIG board which connects via ribbon cable to the BD board (focus and sled IC151 supply), traced it back to the PSU and no output from the the 5v reg IC905. Disconnected CN203 incase something's dragging down the +5v output, but still no +5v. So, diagnosed the voltage reg as faulty and ordered a replacement. Also ribbon cables a bit suspect but don't suppose I can get replacements and not too keen on soldering each connection, anyway some progress it seems. Will update when new reg fitted.........and see what else is not working!!!

No problem, I appreciate you taking the time to advise! Well done for spotting the +7v, that goes to the 5v reg to supply the sig and servo processor, whereas +5v from the other ribbon cable supplies IC151. Both come from the DIG board via ribbon cables, which to be honest don't look too good. I've got a feeling they've been tampered with as one has got creases it shouldn't have. Can't be that simple though surely!

Thanks for your input jonathanpotato, thats correct:- no sled movement at all, even if I move sled gear by hand and insert a disc, sled won't move laser to centre of disc. Will check for +5v tomorrow, but yes suspect fault lies on the BD PCB. By the way, don't know if this is relevant, but in Test Mode the "CLOCK" icon is flashing intermittently and randomly on the display.

OK, thanks for the advice, your efforts are appreciated. However, got it back to the original fault. It seems perhaps the mech was slightly out of sync so re-aligned it and the display now works as before, the green LED was obviously trying to tell me mech error but the manual gives no information on this. Still no sled and no laser focus action, though laser does emit light. As far as I can tell all supply rails are in place, no error codes or modes not working- it works well as a DAC and the menus seem to work. I do have experience with electronics, mainly television, but did work on audio too, just not familiar with these ES decks. It's a UK model for 220-230 VAC. As you say, it all points to something else rather than the laser. Looking at the manual, the focus, sled and spindle actions are all controlled by IC151 on the BD board. I have no idea yet though wether this is a known common cause for problems. Does anyone know when Jim may be back in action?

Nope the sled definitely won't budge, even if I move the sled gears by hand it doesn't move back into the home position on powering back up. So, I stripped it down to look at the connectors, micro switches and see if there's anything obvious. Couldn't spot anything so carefully reassembled and now all I get is the power LED on green, no fluorescent display and no mechanical action. I've taken it apart and reassembled several times but still green LED only. Getting to be a hopeless case this one! Any suggestions? The ribbon cables look OK. Is there an expert in the UK who specialises in repair of these units?

Yes I followed the instructions on page 12, but of course I couldn't operate continuous recording or playback modes because it rejects discs once failing to read the TOC. Do I understand correctly once in Test Mode the sled should operate regardless of a disc being loaded or not or even if the display is showing "Temp Adjust" etc? The manual is not very clear or logical at times, possibly because it's not in it's original language? Is there be any other common cause for no focus apart from laser failure?

Thank you all for the advice and replies. Thank you also PhilippeC, yes I would be very interested in a replacement KMS210B so please reserve one for me. I'm happy to pay postage costs. I will have to check the manual again but I put it into a service mode to do some checks By holding in the AMS control while powering up. Couldn't move the sled though which made me think perhaps the fault lies elsewhere.

Well yes, I've tried that, but the seller is not co-operating. Waiting to see if I can get a partial refund towards a new laser if it turns out that's the problem. I got it for a good price so willing to go to reasonable lengths to get it going, shouldn't be that difficult surely?