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NGY

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Everything posted by NGY

  1. Nice job. Yet another beautiful example of what 3D printers can do. I had one thought, that might be a practical enhancement to these battery packs above. (You can skip this next paragraph, and jump over to the point - this is just for some background of where the idea came from). Years ago I was "rejuvenating" my old Sony battery packs for my ancient MZ-R3. Nothing fancy there really, just two Ni-MH cells stuck together with a metal clip, a plastic place holder and some glue. Any standard AA size Ni-MH rechargeable batteries would work there naturally, I just wanted to keep the original look, and the original pack's "extra feature" of holding the two cells in the right position and polarity. I "skinned" the new OEM cells, and wanted to cover them with a plain black heat shrink tube. But obviously the regular heat shrink tubes that electricians use didn't make it, because those are too thick, making the pack too fat. Then I found a seller on eb@y who sold heat shrink tubes especially made for battery cells, transparent and opaqe, in several colors from clear to black, and very thin just like the OEM cells' shrinks. Using those tubes, the original clamp/placeholder and some new cells, I had completely original-looking battery packs, that fit the MZ-R3 battery compartment perfectly. So the idea is, with a minor modification to the original 3d design (making it slightly thinner, like between the marks on this photo), the new cell can be wrapped into this heat shrink, that would "hide" the cell (or not, if someone prefers transparent tube), and the same time keep it in place and also protect it.
  2. Yes, I did, a couple of times. If you know what you are doing, and you have the necessary soldering skills and equipment, it is fairly easy. (But more difficult than the MDM-5 drives, that are the easiest to service of all, by far.) Having said that, replacing the BD board on an MDM-7 flavour is still a "PITA". You have to strip down the drive "to the bones" so to speak, and from there multiple things can go wrong, big time. And we all know, decks with these mechanisms are the most vulnerable to our old "friend" called stuck-in-standby (or just a simple C13). And let me repeat the importance of the ESD protection measures. Disassembly: - lift the drive off the chassis (be gentle with the ribbons...) - remove the top part of the loading mechanism (easiest step, even no tools needed, though a pair of tweezers can be handy), - remove the OWH, then the sled with the OP (OK, one can accomplish a BD swap without this step, but there is a huge risk of damaging either one or both during turning the drive back and forth, upside down, poking around with a hot soldering iron, etc.), - desolder all three motors - making sure the copper foil is not burned off of the board, - desolder the prerecorded/writeable media and write protect tab detecting switches, - remove one screw, then lift the board - here is "what you get": Assembly: steps as above, in reverse direction. As the MDM-7 has all positions switches soldered on the BD board that can easily be damaged during re-assembling, you must be very careful, what part to put where, from which angle, etc. Once you are done with the BD swap, you have to perform a complete OP readjustment process (that requires all those special tools - jig, DMM, scope, LPM, test discs, etc.) - unless you swap the OP too, together with "its" BD board. Bottom line: as Kevin pointed out, it makes much better sense to swap the whole drive, unless your donor has faulty components you need to exclude/replace first.
  3. Greetings to everyone. Hope you all had great holidays. Also, glad to see that the forum is back. Thanks to all, whoever was involved in getting it back on track. To the OP: swapping drives between different Sony MD decks requires pin compatibility of the ribbons (and switch-board cables, where applicable) AND the same version of the DSP chip (practically the same version of the BD board). The MCU (located on the Main Board) wants to directly talk to the DSP, thus must find the proper counterpart. Type-R and Type-S devices have different DSP-s by nature, regardless those (MDM-7) drive mechanisms/OP/OWH being quite compatible. (In this regard, whether or not the deck itself is USB controlled has less relevance, because that happens on a higher level layer, but yes, this also means that the microcode in the MCU is different too.) If it is only the OWH that is broken off, you may not need to swap the whole drive. The MDM-7 drives are luckily "easy" from OWH (or even OP) servicing point of view. All you need to take care of (besides the usual ESD stuff) is not to move the sled out from and/or leave outside of its parking position before powering up the device again, or you may run into the infamous "stuck in Standby”. One more thing: if the replacement OWH has a different connection cable (yellow flat ribbon vs. white or black twisted pair), you may need to do a bit of soldering work too. With that, you can even use an OWH from an MDM-5 unit.
  4. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Great job, well done. You must begin somewhere. You see, it all started in the early stone age, tools were crude but worked - and now were are in the age of space- and "nano" technologies.
  5. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Great, I will make them in the very near future. Apologies if my wording was ambiguous - I did not mean you'd have to pay for postage. Quite the contrary. "At no cost to you", plain as it is. I will send a PM to all of you when the boards are ready.
  6. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Correct. Kevin came up with the idea of using that extension board, that would save him fabricating a pcb. My reply was meant that the 7 pin standalone sockets are available and cheaper, and he might either use them on an 8 pin breakout board without risking a short circuit, or make his own board like mine, if he wanted to, for what I have the film layout. But as we are here, let me ask you if the two you (also, Stephen?) are interested in a jig board, with the 7 pin SMD socket already soldered on it and drilled for the test pins. You can then add/solder the pins you like and use your own ribbons. At no cost to you, even postage is minimal for such a tiny item. Let me know - sometime during the winter I will have to make one for a friend, and once I am already in those chemicals, I can do two or three more within the same "overhead".
  7. NGY

    Test Jigs

    You can get a ten pack of an SMD 7 pin FPC socket for the price of one of that extension connector. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10Pcs-FPC-FFC-1mm-1-0mm-Pitch-7-Pin-Drawer-Flat-Cable-Connector-Top-Contact/172243355965?hash=item281a81093d:g:x8kAAOSwB9xXPDaj I admit though that not everyone is familiar/comfortable with making their own pcb. Should you want to go that route, I can share the film layout I made for my jig. I just found it among other photos by accident. Maybe I open a business for making MD test jig boards :-) !
  8. NGY

    MDLP Deck

    So funny how some guys trying to sell on ebay. 145€ for a 640 - even with remote included - is near to a "rip off". Few months ago I sold my spare 640, in near mint condition, barely used, remote/carton/manual/cables included, for about 75€ equivalent. And that was rather a high price that time, and I was glad I found a buyer. Back to ebay: I saw two 480-s on the UK site today, listed as faulty, with some drive/disc error, for 29,99 GBP. Both seems powering up, migh just be the belt. But even if the OP is gone, with a spare from axxxxpress for 18...20 USD these could be made fully functional again.
  9. NGY

    MDLP Deck

    Generally speaking, for MDLP playback a Type-S unit is the better choice. From your list above, it is the 480. But the audible difference compared to the Type-R units is marginal, as many people say. It also depends on what kind of music you listen to, and what is your amp/speakers setup. I cannot really comment on music genres, because it is rather subjective, but it does have its impact. On the stereo system: if your deck is (going to be) connected to your amp via digital audio (TOSLINK, SPDIF), then any device that already has such an output will do fine. Normally, there is no difference in the output digital audio stream, should it come from a higher or lower class machine, besides this Type-R/S thing. If you are using analogue audio connection (RCA), then the quality of the D/A converter - as well as the analogue output circuits' - comes into consideration too. As usual, the more expensive a device, the better is its analogue audio quality. sfbp can give a better picture on this, as he is recording in LP a lot, and he has multiple decks/portables in use, so he is very much experienced.
  10. It is not that easy to blow an OP even without any EDS protection, but it might certainly happen. Anyhow, this "ususal" DISC Error (or C13) might come from multiple possible causes, so you might want to check a few things to see where the problem probably lies. I am not familiar with portables, but for the decks this used to be my little checklist, some parts may apply for your device too. Besides that, you may want to check former topics on other "C13" cases. (Great stuff on the gears. I found out sometimes you can find appropriate gears from scrapped printers, car CD units, etc., and with some creativiy like what you shown here one can fix these machines nicely. BTW: when you say "brazed", do you mean brazing, or soldering in fact?)
  11. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Yes, that would nicely work. You may want to make - sort of - strain-relief cuts for the flat ribbon, by opening 4...5 holes in line into one straight hole, with a carpet cutter knife, and make two of them in parallel in say two holes distance.
  12. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Yeah, I forgot to mention... If you have a deck you already scrapped for parts, the 1mm pitch ribbons can be utilized for the test jig. Just cut a 7 threads wide strip with a pair of scissors, and you are there. The very first MDM-7 jig I made was improvized from a ribbon scrapped from an old inkjet/scanner device. But then I wanted a more professional looking one :-) , and bougth a similar pack of ribbons off ebay, also the SMD wire-to-board connectors. Edit: if you don't want to hassle with SMD soldering, there exists the through-hole version of this connector. You can solder it into the other half of your test pcb board, and make another sexy jig :-) . (Generic picture, shows an 8 pin socket)
  13. NGY

    Test Jigs

    I fully agree. Latest ten error codes give an idea, what happened recently. After taking notes on these I always do an "error refresh", and as you wrote, I keep going on with the tests/fixes/settings while keeping my eyes on the new errors appearing, if any. In case "total err" is increasig rapidly after a reset (i.e., shows "ff" again), that's an immediate sign in itself, that something wrong is happening. Funny though that Sony uses different error code tables for certain deck families.
  14. NOW you made me VERY confused. The title of this topic is "Din Unlock C71 Error". Your first post here was: A bit later, you wrote: We went back and forth trying to solve your DIN UNLOCK error (= Sony error code "C71", and machine dependent if the code itself, the text string, or both appear on the screen), and - if you allow me - your answers were a bit inconsistent, that's why I explicitly asked days ago, In your answer you quoted your post that talked about skips and skids... Therefore I had to get back to this - essential - question again: "However, I am still confused by the skips/skids vs. the C71. " And now you are saying you don't have these errors... Can you please clarify? These are two TOTALLY different kind of errors, might or might not have to do with each other, but can certainly be originated from totally different areas of the device. In general, troubleshooting must reflect the problem, if two or more problems exist, they MUST be separated somehow. A given error cannot be fixed by tests made in order to fix another error. And my last question in the matter (don't get me wrong, no hard feelings here, I just try to rectify things so everyone is on the same page): - do you want us to help you to fix your machines? If you do, would you accept the proposed methodology I offered above? If you don't, no problem, just please clarify it, and I will not bother you any further. - - - - - While I agree with Kevins point that it would help, you may want to take your time and clean the ribbons properly, like that: pull them out, first do some mechanical cleaning (erasure for example) then apply some chemical cleaning (propanol for example). We have already discussed it in full details several times (here, here, here, here, etc., etc.).
  15. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Great, I knew you would find your way. Well done. These are the kind of realistic figures we want to see normally. Now as you build your database, we can do our little analysis :-) ! But I give you more time to do your tests before dumping my thoughts. That little table you already began to create will be very useful. You will essentially have these data: - existing data: model name, serial number (to differentiate similar ones), two values from "IOP READ", [nominal IOP stated on the OP-s sticker], two $XX settings from "LDPWR CHECK" respectively, for read/write, total rec/play hours from "ERROR DP”, - measurements and comments: actual IOP mA values respectively (measured on the jig), [measured laser power values in mW for read/write - one day, when you get an LPM :-) ], comments on decks status ( working OK, read errors, write errors, etc.), conclusion on laser status, and "misc" (as always :-) ). As you fill this database, you will see how the "book opens". Whenever you get hold of another deck and insert it's data to the table, you will see if that is worth to do anything with, from the laser's point of view. I stop now :-) .
  16. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Nothing wrong or insufficient with your mindset. I was the one who poured a bunch of information on you, without giving you enough time to digest and try in practice. I will try not to get carried away that much :-) . Regardless of that, you are doing great, and I like your enthusiasm.
  17. NGY

    Test Jigs

    I did not say anything like that! Did not even think! You are experimenting, you may want to repeat some measures if they look strange, etc. I just feed back what practical and probable values you can expect to see in which circumstances.
  18. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Your meter is fine, trust me. And believe me, when I say a measured figure is "way off", or "looks bad", it is because it is way off or looks bad :-) . Don't get me wrong, it is not arrogancy, it is experience, and documented (I fill a form I designed myself, for each MD deck I get my hands on. Lot of good data, of over 100...120 decks). Here is the thing: I have never ever seen any Sony MD decks (talking about KMS-260 A/B/E OP-s), that had nominal IOP values out of the 40...60 mA range. MDM-3 drives used to be generally around 47...49 mA, MDM-5 and up used to be around 51...55 mA. This was the pattern I observed over the years. So when you measure something over 70 mA or even 100 mA (and the latter one in read mode), then something is not round. Theoretically, that laser is not supposed to work ...
  19. NGY

    Test Jigs

    I get you. That's exactly the setting/range you need for measuring IOP on the jig.
  20. NGY

    Test Jigs

    Can I make a few corrections/comments here: - "200mw range ld pwr check" - I trust you meant 200 mV range on your multimeter, didn't you? mV = milli Volt, that is a unit of voltage (voltage = electric potential difference), while mW = milli Watt is a unit of power (power = rate of energy transfer). In this case, none of them have anything to do with the OP laser power, that is related to (laser) light energy. - "on menu 0.9mw $11 came up as 96.8" - this figure calls for some clarification from your side. Normally, the IOP of an MD laser diode in read mode (at 0.9mW) is around 18...20 mA, that should read on your multimeter as 18..20 mV. Your "96.8" is something massively different, and I cannot imagine, what it could be. Same for the 103.2 on the 930. - "iop read is 51.8/ 55.8, 51.8 is what i put it at from when i had the 940's laser in to start with that diddent work out" - please get back to my posts here and here, for IOP values explanation. Especially to this sentence: "Ultimately, you can write ANY numbers there, it will NOT impact the behaviour of the laser AT ALL." - "the 7mw came out at around 76.2, it started at 72'ish and rose to that and slowed at the 76 area" - yes, as the laser heats up, begins drifting. That's exactly why the SM explicitly states DO NOT stay in that mode for more than 15 seconds. Because you can hurt your laser diode big time. The 76.0 mA (if it's a true reading) is a very bad number when the nonimal IOP was 51.8 mA. When I see such a big discrepancy (while the $XX values seem factory default) I normally do another check on the OP (that I won't detail right here and right now, until we conclude how to properly measure IOP and how to properly interpret that data), because it is a sign that the OP has already been tinkered by someone "incompetent". - "s/n 604153 its 7mw reading is 84.5" - what is the nominal IOP of that OP? What do we compare the measured value to? - "i am taking it the higher the figure the healthier the laser" - please DON'T. Wrong way! Again, please see my posts linked above. And also Kevin's post: Let me summarize: a measured IOP value in itself is worth nothing. When you compare it with the nominal value for that given OP, then and only then you can make a conclusion. And that conlusion is this (as stated in the SM): if the difference between the two values is less than 10% of the nominal IOP value, or less than +/- 10 mA (whichever limit is reached first), your laser is working in the required range. This does not yet tell us, if the emitted laser (light) power is sufficient or not. That's when the LPM comes in. But even without an LPM we can tell if an OP has a C13 error or skips in recording/reading. Then we do the "educated guess" thingy I explained here. The good news is we can "play" with the laser power like that even without an LPM, as long as we continuously measure the IOP and make sure we do not step out of that safety range.
  21. Thanks Stephen for stepping in on this one. Sadly I could not combine existing posts. However... ...it seems I did find a solution to the problem - I post it here, should anybody else need it in the future (apologies to those who already had known and been using this feature): If you intend to quote from multiple posts (and it even does not matter, if from different people and/or from different pages), instead of clicking on the "Quote" button under the post (or, clicking on "Quote selection" under a highlighted part of it), first click on the "Multiquote" sign (if you hover your mouse pointer over that plus sign in front of the "Quote" button, see picture below), that will mark that post for quoting. You repeat it for all posts you are going to quote, and while doing this, in the lower right corner of the screen it will show how many posts you already selected (second picture below) . Once done with all needed marks, you click on that "Quote XX posts" button, and presto, all those posts are quoted into one single new post. From then you can either delete unnecessary parts of a given quote, and/or rearrange them to your needs, by dragging them with their four-arrows sign in their upper left corner (third picture). I tried and it does work across multiple pages. Thanks for quoting this for me. I get your point - for me it is practically the same fenomenon, with the difference in the time the laser spends finding the next bit of information (skip=quicker, skid=slower). However, I am still confused by the skips/skids vs. the C71. Let me touch on this below. - LPM: Yes, an LPM (=Laser Power Meter) these days is a rare bird. Some people (like Stephen, Kevin) cough the cash up and buy those expensive but very good Sanwa LPM-s (200 quids or more), while others (like me) just build their own makeshift stuff, to be able to properly measuer/set their lasers. The other important piece of test hardware is that test jig, specific to each MDM type. - record/placback: an ageing or incorrectly set laser migh or might not impact both reading and writing. This is a very complex thing, I cannot really go into details here, the SM (although seems written in Chinese or some other egzotic languages :-) ) is a good source for more information, or you get the rough idea from here (or here), to begin with. - ribbons: Kevin already answered it to full extent - lasers to buy/replace: some thoughts in those post/threads already linked above - two decks, same issue: as I wrote before, it is what you see, and it is probably not the case. Here is my proposal for you (my aim with wasting my spare time here on this forum (and on others too) is trying to help people repairing their equipment, should that be an MD deck, or an oldimer motorcycle, you name it), and you decide if you want to make use of it: As now you have two identical 520 models, let's take now just one of them, and use as an experimental piece. You may want to agree to "sacrifice" it - we won't do anything irreversible to it anyhow, but you don't do anything else on it either until we conclude our tests. We go step by step, one at a time, tick out if something is good and thus out of question, and then move forward. Hopefully, by the end we sort out the real problem and make a fix. Also hopefully, you can replicate that fix on the other 520 too, provided it was the same, or go through another set of checks if it was not and if you are willing to. All I am asking is to always focus only on the given step, do only what is related to it, and feed back all information I requested. I know such a remote repair session can be long, tiresome and seem just waste of time, but you let me know.
  22. Yeah, if someone is not familar with Service Mode, better to stay off. Nevertheless (while I do keep my previous words on that), to understand where those skips come from, we need to either exclude the lasers as the possible cause, or confirm their possibly "going to die soon" status. For that we can go either 1) the objective: by measuring the laser's power and current (out of question in your case), and 2) the "guess": by doing an estimation based on the odometers (and past data of other decks). The record back and forth test turned out being unsatisfactory. If you meant the lasers, yes, they do. But it is not such an exact limit, it is more of "getting tired", and that depends on multiple different factors, not only the total play/rec hours (though still being the major ones). I should now insert some links to a few other threads/posts here in the forum where I explained some aspects of lasers ageing and reasons - I will try to supplement it later.
  23. This never hurts ... and really, this must always be one of the very first "trivial" checks of an actual troubleshooting. - - - - - On a completely different note: can someone please help me (Stephen maybe?): how can I insert multiple quotes, from different people, if their posts are on different pages? I seem to lose my open post if I turn the page back or forth. I just hate to generate so many posts when I could do it in a single one... Especially, if those are in the same context...
  24. (Ignore this above, it must have been a lucky attempt?) So funny, I had the same thought last night ... But allow me to take one step backwards, seems I lost the point (my apologies, I will try to re-read the whole thread, but I am just too tired and brain gets disfunctional): now you get those bloody skips again. OK, we will got on that. But we were trying to solve the C71 error - that is, a missing digital input signal in rec mode. Can we separate the two issues somehow? Do you still get the DIN UNLOCK error, if you do, it is only when you trying to record via TOSLINK, or also via analogue? The reason I asked is I try to understand if those two (skips and C71) are related to each other in any way.
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