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I was told that a firewire cable can be used to capture the individual tracks from the soundboard to a PC. Is this true, or is there another method of using one or a few cables to capture all the individual tracks? I mentioned buss outputs because I thought that was the only way to transfer the individual tracks. Whatever gets them there is all I'm after. He said he connected the mixer to the firewire out of the soundboard. I haven't been able to find information on this specifically, but I have read of this method. Do most soundboards have this output? If this is correct, it would make the process much easier. In choosing an appropriate device, what options are there? http://www.fullcompass.com/product/288733.html This device has firewire and multiple track recording, with DVD burning, so you wouldn't have to connect it to a PC. It's really expensive, though. http://qualityelectronics.stores.yahoo.net/almafiauinre.html a cheaper one http://qualityelectronics.stores.yahoo.net/aladhadire.html

So for reference, are these bus outputs usually in a place on the soundboard that would lend itself to be connected with several cables to an external mixer? In other words, would it be likely to get in the way of, or disturb the soundman's process? My hope is a taper-friendly band that normally allows soundboard patches, wouldn't see this as a problem.

Thanks for that. In doing this yourself, have you found it easy to hook up to the soundboard without being a nuisance? How about storing it/taping it to something while you are in another area? Is this considered to be too involved to a sound engineer if you politely presented this to him?

I'm looking at accessing the soundboard for live recordings. My knowledge is limited and incomplete, so I'll try to explain my questions as well as I can express them. My goal is to get a complete soundboard recording, as opposed to simply patching into the house mix. Let's assume, the sound engineer is unable or unwilling to save you this task by handling a separate recording mix for you. As I understand it, your options are to connect some sort of microtrack recorder to the various bus outputs of the soundboard and capture the audio there. I know there are various microtracks with inputs ranging from 4 - 16 or more. I'd prefer to not have to group any channels together, but instead use a recorder with enough outputs to get each individual track. But this leads to another question as to using a 4 track recorder. I've seen the Edirol R-44 has four tracks and I have to wonder if that wouldn't be just fine for the purposes of mixing after the show, compared to 16 tracks. I'm thinking you wouldn't necessarily want to pan the bass or lead guitar anyway, right? As a side question, how many tracks does a pop/rock band with a standard guitar, bass, drum, singer setup use? So to do this, you obviously need a nice recorder that can record each track individually. Then you have to physically connect a cable from each output of the soundboard to the recorder. I've seen the "snake" cables, but even so, I have to wonder if a dozen or more cables/inputs would become a hazard or nuisance for this already accommodating engineer? Furthermore, you have to put the recorder somewhere. I will want to be away from the mixer during the show. Assuming there wasn't an out of the way space at the mixing desk that wasn't being used, my only thought was to use some gaffing tape and some sort of fabric, to tape it to the side of the mixing wall. How might that work? Now for a quick summary. I'm in a bit of a scramble to do all of this in a couple days. If I got my hands on this microtrack recorder and the necessary cables, what are my odds of success? I mean, if I have the thing recording, and I see the levels aren't clipping, are there any common, or dangerous mistakes I could make? I'll probably have to get into that later, but my main question is if this is practical. Any information is greatly appreciated.

I might add I'm referring to the USB cable that came with the sony hi-md. I'm not sure if they all do, but the mzm10

I tried it with a JB3 and had no connection. This could be software, or the USB. Does the USB work with any device with a USB port or only the Sony minidiscs?

Windows XP

Thanks for the info. If you actually would like to mix the show, I could set up a torrent for the raw data if that works with your system. I think this recording is salvageable. I have done some tweaking in cooleditpro, and there isn't much recorded distortion other than the heavier parts creating a "rattling car stereo" distortion. Mostly it's just very boomy. Sometimes it's hard to tell if bass roll off is needed or not, especially since I'm new to the game.

Do you know of anyone or any resource where there are people who have experience doing some post production to live tapings? I have a Modest Mouse show with very overwhelming bass. I could do it myself, but I figure a more experienced person could do much better.

Thanks alot for that thoughtful reply. I wish I had access to a mixer and several mics so I could go all out, but I'll be lucky to get a couple mics loaned to me through taperssection.com. It really would be a lot of fun to just get any equipment you needed and some time before the show to set up any configuration you want, soundboard, etc. I really like this band, and this may be the last time I get a chance like this. You seem familiar with what goes into making a full, great recording, but just out of curiosity, if there is a practical way to answer this - if I just have my good stereo camcorder mic in the center, will there be a significant difference between that and one of the processes you described with multiple mics? Keep in mind, the stage setup is actually different now, I have learned. The stage has been reversed in that picture, and the stage is almost level with the seats:

Here's the room that I will be videotaping from the center of the seating section. I will have a pretty hi-end stereo mic that comes with this pro camcorder. I'd really like to make a good tape, though, so I was wondering if placing an external mic to the left and right would be a good idea. The band is a 5 piece, quiet, semi-acoustic act, and seeing as how the space is so small, I want to ask if one center mic vs. two externally spaced mics would be much of a difference? I believe those two speakers pictured are the only sound source. My other question is the odds of me fucking the recording up, because it would be the first time I used external mics and not just a simple MD or Edirol flash recorder, with packaged/internal mics. The way I could see myself messing it up with my inexperience would be placing the external mics too close to the speakers, or just overloading the sound somehow. I don't know. Is it worth it? And is it difficult to pull off for a first timer?

I'm curious if there is any advantage to utilizing bass roll off while recording, as opposed to simply adjusting the EQ afterward with a software program. How is the process of one different from the other?

So far my only experience taping concerts is with a Sony minidisc M2m10 with the included stereo mics and an Edirol R-09 with internal mic, which seemed to retain a lot more low end and bass. I may have an opportunity to tape with some more advanced external mics connected to my camcorder. I will not be able to test them very well before showtime. My question is will what I record sound similar to previous mics? I'm sure the quality will be better, but I don't want to be over my head with levels that are too high or too low. This is a vague question, but it leads to a larger question. In essence, should any decent to professional mic retain about the same treble/bass hi-lo dynamics of whatever you are recording? As long as you keep the sensitivity of the mic within range, shouldn't the sound be about the same, aside from quality? I ask this because the Edirol had overwhelming low end and I'm just wondering what could be the explanation. I guess a more direct question would be the difference between mics. I would assume it is a matter of quality and clarity. Have you noticed any large differences in treble/bass balance? Hopefully that made enough sense. It's difficult to form questions from concepts you can't quite understand fully yet.

Thanks, guys. As always, I get a wealth of information to chew on from my initial newbie questions.

Sounds pretty good. Do you have any samples using this technique to check out?

Is this very common and does it work very well? As I understand it, the main drawback to recording directly from a soundboard is that the mix is not balanced to sound well on its own, only the room. So to record both from the audience and the sound board, and then create a mix is an option. But I don't understand how that could possibly sound good, given that you are only mixing a partial source of the instruments; guitars, bass, usually. Beyond that, is there a way for the mixer to still mix for a recording without messing up the room's levels? And is it considerably better to have him mix in stereo than mono (I read they are most commonly mixed in mono). What is the most tactful way to ask a soundboard guy to help you out with all of this? Thanks for reading.

I've been looking a lot at taperssection.com at their various rigs and it blows my mind. Of course, the first question I ask myself, somewhat cynically, is it really worth it? Based on my limited experience and assumptions, won't that hi-tech, pro rig not sound significantly better than a Sony MD? Especially in concert halls where you're in noisy areas. At the end of the day, do you really hear any more nuances? I don't know, that's why I have to ask. Isn't that suited to more of an acapella, close-access method? Even more so, it seems like the difference in quality amongst portable DAT, minidisc, and flash recorders would be comparably minute. When quality is the bottom line, is there a fair consensus to reach regarding these differences?

Hey, thanks for the enlightening responses. It's good to know my limits of what I can expect to record quality-wise at a show. What I ended up with was pretty decent, considering what I heard in the venue wasn't an especially great, spacious sound. It seems like there isn't a huge demand for most of these recorders, so I wish they'd let the damn price drop a little bit. Have you ever tried recording with a video camera at a taper-friendly show? My friend has a great camera and mentioned it also uses a similar manual gain control. I haven't looked into these "bit buckets" methods as you described them. Is this a more intensive, expensive way that generally produces the best bootlegs?

First of all, thanks for the great response, when you could've easily told me to look it up myself. It can be frustrating trying to make huge purchases like this without getting to test them out first. I am a cheap man, but in that same vein I want to buy something that will provide benchmark quality and be durable. The things you listed for the upcoming flash recorders are nice, but don't seem to make a difference in actual recording. That's what matters most. I suppose that depends on the mic, doesn't it? Although mic settings on the recording device could be an important factor. But I don't really know. Let me ask you this: What does create a great recording? Venue? Mic? Or does it come down to something the user has to do while at the show? All I was aware of was setting the gain manually. Is there any way to adjust treble and bass recording? The MP3 recorder I was thinking of, now that I hear your response and looked it up, must've been one of those flash recorders. The price isn't any better, but what is the major knock on these new line of recorders as far as quality and ease of recording?

I think I have a common problem with how my recording turned out. I had automatic gain turned on, and when a snare hits, the whole level is shot down, leaving the next second or so much quieter. I use cooleditpro. I've been messing with hard limiting and such. It makes me wonder if it's really just best to leave it as it is, because hard limiting brings not only the snare down, but everything else at that moment, and you can't really win either way. But I don't know, I'm inexperienced. Is there ever a way to really save a recording like this? Furthermore, is there a forum or somewhere to give the recording to someone who would be willing to master it? I like the idea of keeping it as original as possible, but this can be an annoying problem until you get used to it. The other problem is a lot of the bass is pretty underwhelmingt. I don't know why that happens. Why is that? Manual or automatic gain makes no difference. I'd like to ask the same question for that. Is there a good way to boost bass without molesting an otherwise good hi-end? Thanks for any advice. It's a Modest Mouse show by the way. And I'll gladly put it up after it's touched up. The second night, luckily, sounds much better. I used the Sony Hi-MD M200. Any tips or suggestions of what I can do is appreciated.

I know this is a minidisc forum, so I assume most of you prefer minidisc to DAT, or other methods. I am only a beginner though. To help me narrow down my search as to what audio recorder to look into, I'd appreciate your opinions. My main priority is bootlegging concerts. What are the current top items? What's around the corner that should be considered? I'd like to buy a high-end, good quality recorder, but I don't want to buy it prematurely if something new and significantly better is coming out. I used a Hi-Md Minidisc recorder and liked it. But I'm open to DAT, MP3, whatever else can do the job. Thanks for reading.