Shuttle Xpc

[me]

It's currently 2:15AM although I've just come back from Osaka a week or so ago and it feels like my computer's time of 10:16PM.

2:16AM inspired random thoughts and review sites and www.xpcomputers.co.nz have made my soggy mind dead set to get an XPC.

I'm looking at the SN45G. It's got everything I'll ever need, I assume I can do the old switcheroo gag with my Duron, (or was that the SN41G?) hard drive and GeForce MX400 . If I buy this computer, I get a computer that doesn't keep me awake at night and many features. One of these is an SVHS out. My TV has SVHS in. This means lots of fun for parties when it can become a DVD player and jukebox. Another of these is an optical S/PDIF I/O. Something useful to have in case I decide to build a DAC. (Since the MDR-SA1000 unamped from my current sound card doesn't sound very healthy). It's got enough power to keep me happy. (I don't play computer games, they bore me).

Enough introduction. (My introductions are long winded and generally longer than the question I have to ask, maybe they're just musings, to get you in the mood).

First question. I don't want to get another DAP if I sell my iPod. I only have AACs from my CDs that I've bought, so they can just be played on the computer. Anything I have infringed the copyright of is in MP3 format and can be transferred to a CD with the CD burner I haven't bought yet. Speaking of CD burners, I figure any LiteOn drive is good. Let me know if this isn't the case. Therefore, the only problem I'll have is the scratching of CDs and the annoyance of carrying a CD player. That and the lack of the iPod status.

I will only be going out when I'm off to University. That's a half-hour bus ride. I don't need an iPod on the bus. I'll have a bag filled with stuff for university as well. There are plently of iRiver CD players about which play MP3 CDs. But it's not necessary, really. Music's for home. Maybe I'll get one of those flash players, just like MD except there aren't any discs.

At this point of the post, you're meant to say "Buy the XPC and sell the iPod" or "You're stupid, keep your PC". Or "Buy the XPC, an MD recorder, and sell the iPod" considering it's an MD board afterall.

Next bit of the post.

Assuming I pass the last section, which Shuttle is good?

My current system dates from '03 or '04, but kinda older parts. GeForce 2. 384MB PC2100. Duron 1.2GHz. You get the idea. I'm satisfied with the speed of this computer, so would the SN45G for approximately 100 NZ dollars (70 US Dollars) more than the SN41G be worth it? At the moment, I think it is worth it, however anything to save money is a good idea, considering I don't really want to spend much more than the value of my iPod in buying the bare bones system.

I've forgotten what else to say. So if you think of any issues (any at all) please tell me. I won't bark at you, honest. I've been debarked by various Tboard idiots. It's just not worth the effort...

Please post about the XPC and not the Tboard, I'm not interested in Tboard politics.

sankyu-

[Rumz]

The SN45G or whatever it is-- it's a good machine. But what advantages does it have for you over the SN41G? My brother has one of them (whichever of the 2 doesn't come with built in video), and I don't recall what was better about it other than that it had more flexibility for the "power user".

Do both of these models have SPDIF in/out, or does only one? Do they have nForce2 audio (with dolby digital decoding and stuff)? If so, get the cheaper one-- it sounds like you just want to slap in your current hardware but just have it smaller / quieter. (Then again, I'm too lazy to figure out exactly how much difference 100 NZD is...) I'm tempted to do the same myself with my Athlon 2100+ machine.

As for selling the iPod, etc-- I can't help you there. If it's necessary to get the XPC and having your PC small/quiet like that is more valuable to you than the iPod, then go for it. You can talk yourself into and out of pretty much anything, I've found. Unfortunately for me I usually talk myself into spending money

[Rumz]

Oh, and if you want more XPC specific help, I found this forum helpful-- it's basically an XPC / SFF forum. There are other hardware forums on the site, but the XPC one is one of the main ones.

http://forums.sudhian.com/default.aspx?FTV...20Form%20Factor

[me]

The SN45G or whatever it is-- it's a good machine.  But what advantages does it have for you over the SN41G?  My brother has one of them (whichever of the 2 doesn't come with built in video), and I don't recall what was better about it other than that it had more flexibility for the "power user". 

Do both of these models have SPDIF in/out, or does only one?  Do they have nForce2 audio (with dolby digital decoding and stuff)?  If so, get the cheaper one-- it sounds like you just want to slap in your current hardware but just have it smaller / quieter.  (Then again, I'm too lazy to figure out exactly how much difference 100 NZD is...)  I'm tempted to do the same myself with my Athlon 2100+ machine. 

As for selling the iPod, etc-- I can't help you there.  If it's necessary to get the XPC and having your PC small/quiet like that is more valuable to you than the iPod, then go for it.  You can talk yourself into and out of pretty much anything, I've found.  Unfortunately for me I usually talk myself into spending money

←

The cheaper one has not got nForce 2 audio. I think it's VIA, which would make it pretty much the same as my current PC but smaller. 100 NZD is 70USD. Maybe it's the same as iPod 40GB vs. iPod 20GB, if they were the same size. Actually, I think i'll get the more expensive one. Sounds like it's more future proof. (If a computer can be future proof). The 6 channel audio sounds nice, I've only got two speakers though. The more expensive one got 4 pin (laptop style) firewire, however I won't have an iPod then so it's irrelevant.

I think I'll wait until uni starts and see if I really use this iPod a lot. Sure don't use it at home these days.

Thanks for the link and help.

Edited January 13, 2005 by me

[rauer]

I'm not familiar with either of those PC's but I do have a couple of Intel-based Shuttles (SB65 & SB51). They're nice in many ways but placing lotsa hardware in a small enclosure like that tends to generate quite a lot of heat and therefore the fans a bit on the loud side - even when using the Speedfan. I know there are certain modifications you can do but I haven't done any.

Another thing is, the onboard audio card isn't necessary very good. At least the ones I have resample the audio (to 48kHz IIRC). For example when I play a DTS encoded wav file on my PC, output the signal to my AV receiver's digital, it isn't recognized as DTS.

You'll find tons of Shuttle XPC related info at

Sudhian

EDIT: just noticed Rumz already provided the link..

Edited January 13, 2005 by rauer

[aeriyn]

Onboard sound cards are terrible for audio quality.

Better yet, look at this option. Guzzler from Head-Fi offers the PCB for a USB DAC, which could likely be constructed by any one of the builders at head-fi, including myself. It doesn't have an integral amp, but with this USB DAC, you will eliminate the noise of the soundcard's analog output stage from being inside the PC case.

Instead of spending money on a micro-PC, which I consider wasteful anyway (IMO), get a builder to toss together you a USB DAC and a PIMETA.

Your cans, and your ears, will thank you.

[Christopher]

nForce3 and beyond have pretty decent onboard audio. Seriously.

[me]

Onboard sound cards are terrible for audio quality.

Better yet, look at this option. Guzzler from Head-Fi offers the PCB for a USB DAC, which could likely be constructed by any one of the builders at head-fi, including myself. It doesn't have an integral amp, but with this USB DAC, you will eliminate the noise of the soundcard's analog output stage from being inside the PC case.

Instead of spending money on a micro-PC, which I consider wasteful anyway (IMO), get a builder to toss together you a USB DAC and a PIMETA.

Your cans, and your ears, will thank you. 

←

PIMETA sucks. I swear my SA1000s feel underpowered by my META42 (AD823, single EL2001s, nothing too fancy in the case/wire department). That USB DAC don't run off USB power, no thanks. So toothpick girl can solder SOP? They sure are tiny, your toothpick mightn't be very helpful.

I was going to build a thingy for high impedance cans using a tube or three, with some form of DAC built in. I don't know where to find those optical converters and the Shuttle don't got coax out (and i'd rather not get an optical to coax converter, annoying).

This mid tower I got at the moment is so loud that it can be heard while listening with EX71s. Forget the SA1000.

Anyway I put the iPod up on sale, so I'll hopefully have a bunch of cash to play with. I'll sit on it and see what to do later.

Edited January 14, 2005 by me

[me]

nForce3 and beyond have pretty decent onboard audio. Seriously.

←

So I should suck it up and get that SN95G ?

Then put a 256MB stick of PC2100 and an 8GB hard drive in, powered by the Duron 1.2GHz.

...

[Christopher]

Just for curiousities sake, what is your maximum budget?

[me]

Just for curiousities sake, what is your maximum budget?

←

It's pretty irrelevant because I can't get US prices, and I'm planning to upgrade as funds permit.

An 80GB hard drive is something like NZ$125. To get US dollars multiply by 0.7. I think RAM could be around NZ$180, optical drive $90. Proc around $100.

The first thing I'll be getting is just a processor, as I have RAM and other goodies from my main PC.

Say I spend $420 on the Shuttle to start, it should be around another $400 on top of that to get a pretty smart system running. So I guess something like US$550 or so.

If you've got a better idea instead of a shuttle for something in mini-ITX form, let me know.

[Rumz]

I'd go for the one with the nForce2 MCP then if you want to do XPC, rather than the one with Via for sound (though I agree with you on waiting till uni).

While I have an nForce3 XPC and find the onboard audio to be worlds better than the onboard crap on an old via chipset (about 3 1/2 hears old- so much electronic noise), if the SN45 has the nForce2 MCP then it's a legit sound card and not that cheap stuff. I know a lot of XPC fans have been complaining that subsequent nForce XPCs haven't had very good sound in comparison.... so if sound is a legitimate concern this is probably about as good as SFF gets (at least on-board).

There's no such thing as future-proof anymore (if there ever wasy) I have the SN95G5 (waited for it to build an XPC so I could be "futureproof" by having socket 939) - all this means is that I might be able to drop a dual-core A64 in somewhere down the line (if heat isn't a problem...)-- otherwise it uses old PCI and AGP standards, when everything coming out now is PCI-Express (though I'm sure AGP will be around for quite some time).

Edited January 14, 2005 by Rumz

[Christopher]

Keep telling yourself that, Rumz.

I say you keep your interests with Shuttle; I almost wanted to recommend a Mac Mini but let's not kid ourselves here. The SN45G is nice for the price point, throw a Chaintech AV-710 in there or something just for kicks, eh?

Damn, if you're content with that me [nForce2], moving up to a SN95G and related hardware would be like driving a Model T Ford and a Bathurst '68. And do you see yourself wanting to upgrade further in the future? You sorta hint at it..

[me]

Keep telling yourself that, Rumz.

I say you keep your interests with Shuttle; I almost wanted to recommend a Mac Mini but let's not kid ourselves here. The SN45G is nice for the price point, throw a Chaintech AV-710 in there or something just for kicks, eh?

Damn, if you're content with that me [nForce2], moving up to a SN95G and related hardware would be like driving a Model T Ford and a Bathurst '68. And do you see yourself wanting to upgrade further in the future? You sorta hint at it..

←

Looks like I'm going to have around NZ$350-400 for my old 15GB pod. I think that's enough to get an SN45.

It's going to be about as powerful as the first steam engine (before they had double action, I've forgotten what it's called). You konw, about a hundred tonnes and has 1 horse power.

But, I do intend to upgrade. Nothing insane, I want it to be able to use many firefox windows, itunes or foobar, and probably a few other proggies at the same time on Windows XP.

The shuttles all seem to have optical out, which is something. I don't know if it's bit perfect, but I doubt my CD player is either. Either way I can hook a DAC up to that and I have my META42 to serve me until I build something better.

By the way, "wait until uni" means about another two months

[Christopher]

I'd kill for a SN45, mate!

[seriously, click on that link, hilarious shit. ]

Anyway, get a gig of ram, ddr400/pc3200. That would probably be best for what you wish to do with this computer, and if you do upgrade to Socket 754/939 in the future, it will be compatible [unless you get a socket 939 that does DDR2]. If you do shop ram, ping this thread back up and I'll assist; I love this stuff. Plus, with a gig, it'll be less than a ton and have a hundred horse power.

btw, your thread at the t-board about your issues with dialup, read this thread to assure it's nothing foul?

[me]

I'd kill for a SN45, mate!

[seriously, click on that link, hilarious shit. ]

Anyway, get a gig of ram, ddr400/pc3200. That would probably be best for what you wish to do with this computer, and if you do upgrade to Socket 754/939 in the future, it will be compatible [unless you get a socket 939 that does DDR2]. If you do shop ram, ping this thread back up and I'll assist; I love this stuff. Plus, with a gig, it'll be less than a ton and have a hundred horse power.

btw, your thread at the t-board about your issues with dialup, read this thread to assure it's nothing foul?

←

My dialup was fine on my end, turns out the server had a fit. Things gradually came online throughout the day.

I got NZ$360 (US$252) for the iPod. Pretty good considering it's a 15GB 3G.

Can you take a look at this and tell me what you think?

If you're board then take a look at the other stuff - memory etc. It's probably where I'll get all my stuff from. Thanks:D

[Christopher]

So..you going for SN45G?

They should put the RAM latencies in their description(s). I'd go with the PQI 512MB PC3200 DDR RAM though, I suppose. It's hard to choose without latencies, because if you ever do get a x64 platform then you can benefit greatly from using fast, efficient ram.

btw, that Shuttle XPC SN85G4 is sliiick. I like it alot. Too bad it isn't nForce3 250.

I'd get the Maxtor 120Gb ATA133 2MB 7200rpm HDD, seems to be the best priced, but some of the prices there are head scratching..

[me]

So..you going for SN45G?

They should put the RAM latencies in their description(s). I'd go with the PQI 512MB PC3200 DDR RAM though, I suppose. It's hard to choose without latencies, because if you ever do get a x64 platform then you can benefit greatly from using fast, efficient ram.

btw, that Shuttle XPC SN85G4 is sliiick. I like it alot. Too bad it isn't nForce3 250.

I'd get the Maxtor 120Gb ATA133 2MB 7200rpm HDD, seems to be the best priced, but some of the prices there are head scratching..

←

They looked like good prices to me. Until you realise that GST is 12.5%, which puts that SN45G at around 420, plus a whole bunch of extras for the bits. It might be wishful thinking to put together a system.

I could go to plan B which is a guitar, a stick of RAM and a fan for the current computer. Well, the guitar's for me of course.

But the shuttle is entertaining and could be useful..