Please Help First Time Buyer Of Portable Recordable Md

[Dexter]

Hello everyone,

I've just discovered this excellent forum and I'd really appreciate your help. I'd like to buy a portable recordable MD for the first time but I basically know nothing about nor really understand the technical stuff, so I'm very confused about what to get. I've read some reviews but I still don't really know where to start, as there are so many conflicting opinions everywhere.

So, I'll tell you what I want to use the minidisc for and maybe you could steer me in the right direction:

- I'm a cyclist and want to use it whilst out training, which can be for up to five hours at a time. So not having to change discs whilst out would be good, and ideally it would be a sturdy unit (in case of a crash) that's moisture proof (sweat/heavy condensation), and anti-skip (or whatever you call it).

- ideally it would also have a radio, but that's not essential (I notice that very few seem to have radios).

- and of course the smaller the better.

I have a hi-fi stereo unit that allows digital recordings from CD to MD using an optical cable (whatever that is), so the portable MD would have to support that. The main mode of recording I want to do is from my existing CD collection to the MD, and also from my stereo's radio to MD if possible.

I would also like to be able to get some music from the internet onto the MD (the easier the better). I have a dial-up connection if that's relevant. I wouldn't mind downloading to CD first.

Sound quality is of course important - and very important is being able to get a loud volume (because of outdoor/road noise on the bike).

I play a musical instrument and would also like to be able to make live recordings of myself so the facility for adding equipment like a mic would be good.

I wouldn't mind buying second hand so budget is maybe not relevant, so I'd appreciate a few suggestions that I should look at. But if buying new I wouldn't really want to spend more than around £100 (UK).

I get the impression (maybe wrongly) that hi-MD players are not highly thought of, then there's all the Net MD stuff etc,etc. My little mind is spinning with the amount of choice and considerations.

I'd really appreciate your advice, and thanks a lot in advance. Sorry if this post is a bit long.

Dexter.

I edited the size of the font in this post so it wouldn't be as obnoxious. - Nismo96

[aeriyn]

Based on your usage habits, a flash-memory based digital player sounds like it'd fit your bill better than an MD unit except for using the discs with your minisystem.

You are not going to record with this, correct?

For primarily active, outdoor use, I would definitely recommend solid-state over anything with moving parts. Both MD units and HDD-based players can suffer catastrophic failures of crucial parts from abuse, such as head crashes or optical pick up block faults.

Creative Labs makes some very good flash-based MP3 players. I personally am partial to the MuVo Micro N200, it has the sleekest looks, is very, very small, uses AAA batteries (including high-capacity NiMH rechargeables) has an FM radio tuner and a voice recorder. If I wasn't broke, I'd be using one of these as my workout player. It holds up to 1GB and utilizes USB2.0, so transfers are very fast. Also, it's flash-based so there is no way it can ever skip and it will be able to take a lot more physical shocks than an MD player before something... lets loose. Using EAC/LAME -alt preset-standard VBR encoded MP3s, you can cram a good deal of music on this tiny little player.

http://www.creative.com/products/product.a...5&product=10737

If you're dead set on an MD player but don't want to change discs every hour or so, Hi-MD is your only way to go. Since you would be using this unit in a very high-stress environment, I wouldn't recommend one of the "premium" models like the NH900 or the NH1; rather, I'd point at the NHF800, since not only is it far less expensive, but it uses standard AA batteries (including high-capacity NiMH rechargeables), has a radio tuner on the remote (but not without the remote) can acquire recordings from either the USB port via SonicStage or the optical/line-in or microphone input if you ever decide to use it for recording. However, the NHF800's LCD is not backlit on the main unit or the remote.

Soundwise, I've used a Creative N200 and I was amazed at how good it sounds and how LOUD it gets for being so small. Believe it or not, but the headphone output on this tiny little MP3 player is stronger than all modern MD players. I've never heard the NHF800, but all the Sony 1st gen Hi-MD units use the same Panasonic operational amplifier... and I'm not too thrilled with the sound I heard on my neighbor's NH600D (using uncompressed OpenMG PCM just for kicks). IMO, I'd say the N200 sounds better by a wide margin, and I'm usually quite critical of Creative Labs' players. They make damn good flash players though.

[Fat Tires]

I play a musical instrument and would also like to be able to make live recordings of myself so the facility for adding equipment like a mic would be good.

Aeriyn's recommendation of a flash mp3 player for road use is a good one. The Creative Muvo TX is a great player that is small, has FM, and can come in a 512MB capacity, all for around $100 USD. That'd be a great fit for use while out and about.

For recording yourself playing your instrument, I suggest a lower end Hi-MD model like the NH700. Do not buy the NH600 as it does not have a mic input. With a NH700 you'll be able to record your music with the mic and upload it to your PC for archival purposes or to burn to CD for sharing with others.

[Michael1980]

Aeriyn's recommendation of a flash mp3 player for road use is a good one. The Creative Muvo TX is a great player that is small, has FM, and can come in a 512MB capacity, all for around $100 USD. That'd be a great fit for use while out and about.

For recording yourself playing your instrument, I suggest a lower end Hi-MD model like the NH700. Do not buy the NH600 as it does not have a mic input. With a NH700 you'll be able to record your music with the mic and upload it to your PC for archival purposes or to burn to CD for sharing with others.

←

Oh, but this man is in the UK, so the NH600 coupled with a cheap price and a "destination code hack" is tempting.

Edited February 14, 2005 by Michael1980

[Dexter]

Hi aeriyn, Nismo and Micheal

Thanks very much for your time. I have to admit though that I'm probably even more confused now about what to buy.

I'm surprised to have an MP3 player suggested, as I had read a few reports saying that Minidisc is far superior......and this is a mninidisc forum. I read that the sound quality on minidisc is in a completely different league to MP3, and MP3 doesn't have "gapless playback" which can be a problem for listening to albums and to long classical pieces, both of which I want to do. The storage capacity on a flash MP3 is also very limiting.......and after having a look at the link (thanks aeriyn) Creative don't seem to have a memory card facility on their flash players.

Aeriyn, you used some technical language that I don't understand;

Using EAC/LAME -alt preset-standard VBR encoded MP3s, you can cram a good deal of music on this tiny little player.

That's complete gobbledeegook to me I'm afraid.

Also, I'm not sure why you've suggested a hi-Md if I'm set on getting a Md........why not a Net MDLP which would give me the recording time on one disc that I'd want?

And why would I want a hi-Md for live recording of myself as opposed to another type of Md with a mic socket. I've read your pages on hi-Md on this forum and read other stuff on the net and it generally seems to get slated.......Sonic Stage is very unpopular.......so is a first gen hi-Md really worth me getting at the moment?

Maybe a flash MP3 would be best for my sports use, and a cheap Minidisc for my live recording. Any more advise/suggestions would be most appreciated, as I'm mucho mucho bamboozled by the conflicting opinions and the amount of choice.......my poor little brain is going to explode

Dexter.

P.S. Sorry about the "obnoxious" large font in my first post Nismo......my poor eye's don't take well to this forums small font.

[aeriyn]

Hi-MD holds 1GB of information per disc, so it holds quite a bit more music at higher qualities than NetMD units do.

I recommended the flash player because an MD unit has moving parts which are not designed to take the kind of abuse that might be heaped on them in say, a bike crash going at a pretty good clip down a hill, if you smash hard enough, even if the MD unit doesn't make actual contact with the ground, it could still cause catastrophic failure.

Also, the flash player has a more powerful headphone amp built into it, which translates to louder volumes with less-efficient headphones. Sony, for some reason completely unknown to me, believes that 5mW per channel is enough. Some headphones need considerably more power than that to be driven to normal listening levels.

As for the sound quality of MiniDisc, that is largely dependent on the analog output stage of the device. All of the Sony Hi-MD units use a Panasonic amplifier IC which is not a particularly good one. Many of the older Sony MD units use a "generic" brand opamp that's a bit better. The encoding qualities of the MD codec (ATRAC) is that it's better than MP3 at low bitrates. There are very little differences between lossy codecs at ~256kbps.

As much as the recording folks here complain, Hi-MD is much easier to work with when it comes to recorded works. Since you can quickly get your recordings off the unit onto your computer for editing and mastering and burning to CD, unlike the previous incarnations of MD which require to either use an expensive external MD deck with an S/PDIF output or use the headphone out on the MD portable itself (which is analog and lossy, and the signal is getting mucked up by going through a lot of cheap capacitors). Note that all transfers for old MD are real-time. Most of the complaints seemed to be about earlier versions of SonicStage.

If recording your instrument-playing is top priority, then MD is your only option. If listening to other peoples' music while riding your bike is your top priority, go with a nice flash player like the Muvo Micro N200.

MD isn't superior to other formats; in fact in a lot of ways it's not nearly as convenient or as user-friendly. Sound quality is subjective of course, but Sony never seems to understand the correlation between high output power and good sound (which actually goes hand-in-hand). The Sony sound is usually good enough for most non-audiophile types; they've got "mid-fi" down to a science.

[Dexter]

Thanks a lot Aeriyn, that's very helpful. I can definately see the logic in me getting a flash MP3 for cycling, and that is my main priority. If I decide to get one, which I now think I probably will, is Creative the industry standard for flash players or are there equal or maybe even better makes that maybe cost a bit more? What about i-Pod or i-River.....they seem to get varying reviews, and are they compatible with all types of computer? I'm quite happy to get a creative of course....I'd just like to know all the best options.

Thanks for your time.

[aeriyn]

Creative seems to be the company for flash-based digital players. They make the smallest ones that sound the best for the price. Sony and iRiver also make very small flash-based players; the Sony models have very good battery life and tiny size, as do the iRivers, but they are considerably more expensive than the Creative Labs' units.

Apple's only flash-based player, the iPod Shuffle, is not my very favorite. For starters it has no screen and almost none of the player settings are definable on the player; they all must be set through iTunes. Sound quality wise, it's on par with the other iPods and it is definitely loud enough. I still don't see any reason they should've ommited even a simple one or two line display, though. I kinda like to know what I'm listening to and a screen makes navigation much easier. Try finding an individual song on a Shuffle, and you'll have a frustrating time.

If you were looking at a Microdrive player, I'd say Rio Carbon and iPod Mini lead the pack; likewise for a full-sized hard drive player, I'd recommend the iPod 4G and the Rio Karma. I'm not a fan of the Creative Labs' hard disk players. But I really am impressed by their flash-based players.

[Dexter]

Thanks again Aeriyn. I think I'll get a Creative flash player and maybe try to get a cheap second hand MD for recordings. Or maybe I'll stretch my budget to a Microdrive, as they seem like a good idea for the extra storage possibilities.......I'd never heard the name before so I just did a quick search on the net. Here's a player that came up, by Nex, that seems a very good deal.........do you have any opinion on them?

http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/p...products_id=220

Muchos gracias.

[Dexter]

Oh, I forgot to ask again.......what about "gapless playback" on the Creative MP3 players.....do they have it or not? As I said, this would be important to me for listening to classical music, for example.

[Fat Tires]

They don't have gapless playback sadly. MP3 files can't support it. If gapless playback is important to you, I'd suggest going with a flash player that supports the OGG file format, or just use MD only.

[Dexter]

Hi Nismo. I've never listened to music from an MP3 player before so I don't really know how important gapless playback is to me. How noticeable is it......is it something that can ruin or make listening to certain music very annoying, or is it hardly noticeable?

Thanks.

[Guest tony wong]

well, Dextor

the choice of urs should be depending on.... :

whether u will have a lot of cd to be put onto the player

and, how many cd u will want to hear in a day

I do think u'll have to try it yourself

try the difference of md and mp3 files

someone like me will always "feel the difference" even in outdoor environment

but not everyone will feel the difference

if that difference is not applicable to u, u'd better buy a flash based player

because, it's really more resistant to vibration

[aeriyn]

Oh, I forgot to ask again.......what about "gapless playback" on the Creative MP3 players.....do they have it or not? As I said, this would be important to me for listening to classical music, for example.

←

When it comes to classical music, gappy playback can be disconcerting and distract from the overall experience of listening. Nismo is right here; unfortunately you only have two choices for gapless and that's either the Rio Karma or any MD unit. The Rio Karma can be gapless with MP3 as well as with vorbis (since vorbis is an inherently gapless format). Other players that support vorbis such as the iRiver iHP series, I'm not sure about their gapless abilities.

[Dexter]

Thanks all. I've now got a much clearer idea of the advantages and disadvantages of both types of players for my uses. I'll trundle down to my local audio store armed with this info to have a look at the different players and get some more advice on the specifics of each unit. I think gapless playback is going to be important to me so it's probably going to be a MD that I get.

Thanks a lot for your time.......your advice has been very helpful.

Dexter.