fuzzy_aladdin Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Hi forum.I'm considering a new audio recording/playback device for portable use. I've been debating over several different types of devices, and the Hi-MD has caught my attention. I'm an "opponent" to highly-restrictive DRM so that is one thing that's turned me away from NetMD, but Hi-MD seems like it may be easing up a bit. DRM isn't bad, I just don't like being totally at someone else's mercy when it comes to my music or data. If DRM offers fair use, it's OK.Here's specifically what I need to know:* I know the higher-level units can record. NetMD units couldn't transfer those recordings to the PC except by analog cable (time-consuming and unacceptable to me), so it was an immediate "no" in my book. I read the FAQs on transferring recordings from Hi-MD and it seems it may actually work for me. Even with a one-time upload limit, providing there was no system crash I could still just convert my recordings to MP3 and re-load them back onto the MD if needed. Recording is a big reason I'd buy the unit in the first place.* I'm not clear on this checkout thing. I've heard that the first-gen HiMD's limit any given file on your PC to be transferred only three times. I've also heard that the second-gen units will remove that restriction for unencrypted files and also be able to play MP3 directly. Explain this to me please?* The MD has an optical in. I've read that you cannot transfer recordings made on the optical-in port even on a Hi-MD unit to the PC (only analogs can be transferred). True?* From what I've read, the unit offers drive-letter access. Is this true? If a standard MD can be formatted to hold 305MB of data with drive-letter access, it'd be a wonderful supplement or replacement for my Zip 250. Standard MD's are a dime a dozen these days (MUCH cheaper than Zip250 media!), you can find them at any department store, and 305MB is already more than a 250MB zip. Also in regards to this though, if drive letter access is possible, are special Windows drivers required for it, or will it show up as a standard USB mass storage unit so it can be used sans drivers on 2000/XP? (Not for music transfer, just for pure data.)* Is there any benefit to waiting for second-gen units besides playing MP3 files directly? I read something about recording straight to MP3 files (128kbps). What's up with this? * Not highly important, but some MD's have radio tuners; can they record from radio to Hi MD? I could get a cheap MP3 player/radio combo to do this, but if the MD can do it that's one less item to carry.* Preferably would like a unit that uses AA batts, BC I already have a nicely-sized collection of rechargeable NiMH batts and a couple chargers. Besides MD, the other option I'ved looked into is a Roland R-1 MP3 recording/playback unit retailing at $449. The Roland has built-in mics and records to CF, but I could ust pick up a decent external stereo mic and use that with the MD instead, and MD media is already cheaper. As long as I can get my recordings in either WAV (which will be converted to MP3) or MP3 itself, I'm fine. I understand I'll need a record-capable unit to record, and from what I've read they run around $200 or so for base models.Since I've previously shunned the MD for it's prohibitive DRM features, I'm not too well-versed in the community. The latest offerings definitely have me interested, however. Any advice is appreciated.Thanks,Flint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 * I read the FAQs on transferring recordings from Hi-MD and it seems it may actually work for me.Since SonicStage 2.3 the one upload has been reliable for nearly everything except home-built computers. Then Wav converter will convert the transferred file repeatedly. SS 3.0 apparently has Wav converter integrated to save a step, and .wav files are unencrypted.* I'm not clear on this checkout thing. I've heard that the first-gen HiMD's limit any given file on your PC to be transferred only three times. I've also heard that the second-gen units will remove that restriction for unencrypted files and also be able to play MP3 directly. Explain this to me please?Checkout is just that--you can also check back in and it starts the count again. As for the changes, we'll have to see when it gets here. Sony's advance publicity always promises more than it delivers. * The MD has an optical in. I've read that you cannot transfer recordings made on the optical-in port even on a Hi-MD unit to the PC (only analogs can be transferred). True?Marcnet's HiMDRenderer (look at the pinned thread under Software) gets around this. * From what I've read, the unit offers drive-letter access. Is this true? Yes, but it's slow, USB 1.0. Windows XP will recognize it as a USB drive. * Is there any benefit to waiting for second-gen units besides playing MP3 files directly? I read something about recording straight to MP3 files (128kbps). What's up with this? Again, wait and see. But why record to mp3 when you have PCM?* Not highly important, but some MD's have radio tuners; can they record from radio to Hi MD? No, you can't record from the tuner to the MD. * Preferably would like a unit that uses AA battsYeah, so would I. The current NH-700 and NHF-800 do that. It doesn't look like the next generation does, though there may be outboard battery packs. Two steps forward, one step back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony wong Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 first of all, I'd like to say this is kind of "one minute question" for old membersfuzzy, no offense, this sentence is not for u but for other people* I know the higher-level units can record. NetMD units couldn't transfer those recordings to the PC except by analog cable (time-consuming and unacceptable to me), so it was an immediate "no" in my book. I read the FAQs on transferring recordings from Hi-MD and it seems it may actually work for me. Even with a one-time upload limit, providing there was no system crash I could still just convert my recordings to MP3 and re-load them back onto the MD if needed. Recording is a big reason I'd buy the unit in the first place.* I'm not clear on this checkout thing. I've heard that the first-gen HiMD's limit any given file on your PC to be transferred only three times. I've also heard that the second-gen units will remove that restriction for unencrypted files and also be able to play MP3 directly. Explain this to me please?the checkout thing is outdatedcheckin/checkout only appears in NetMD age* The MD has an optical in. I've read that you cannot transfer recordings made on the optical-in port even on a Hi-MD unit to the PC (only analogs can be transferred). True?more precisely should be : upload music from Hi-MD to pc, right?Hi-MD portable have no optical out until this momentbut yes, the music u record from optical in can be upload to ur pc with the usbit's simple to do it in SonicStage* From what I've read, the unit offers drive-letter access. Is this true? If a standard MD can be formatted to hold 305MB of data with drive-letter access, it'd be a wonderful supplement or replacement for my Zip 250. Standard MD's are a dime a dozen these days (MUCH cheaper than Zip250 media!), you can find them at any department store, and 305MB is already more than a 250MB zip. Also in regards to this though, if drive letter access is possible, are special Windows drivers required for it, or will it show up as a standard USB mass storage unit so it can be used sans drivers on 2000/XP? (Not for music transfer, just for pure data.)yes, just like an usb drivebut the speed maybe slower than all the others(zip, usb drive....etc)as for driver, for what I've heard from hk Sony staff is : with usb 1.1 u need to install driverno need to install for usb 2.0* Is there any benefit to waiting for second-gen units besides playing MP3 files directly? I read something about recording straight to MP3 files (128kbps). What's up with this? no one knows, it haven't been released yetbut look from the spec of these 2nd gen units..... :benefit : mp3 added(both play and record)not good : cannot record in MD mode* Not highly important, but some MD's have radio tuners; can they record from radio to Hi MD? I could get a cheap MP3 player/radio combo to do this, but if the MD can do it that's one less item to carry.currently only 1 model have radio functionbut no, U can't record from it's radio function, u'll need to record from another radio source unit* Preferably would like a unit that uses AA batts, BC I already have a nicely-sized collection of rechargeable NiMH batts and a couple chargers. all models(only 1st gen) except NH1 and Nh600/600D use NiMH type batteryNH1 : LithiumNH600/600D : only AA battSince I've previously shunned the MD for it's prohibitive DRM features, I'm not too well-versed in the community. The latest offerings definitely have me interested, however. ←DRM do nothing with the userit just prevent u from directly copying the music in a MD/Hi-MD to other device and copy for a million timesafter u upload any thing into ur pc and turn it into wav, u can copy it for as many times as u want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy_aladdin Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 (edited) Thanks for the advice guys, I'm probably going to go for the US equivelant of the NH700. What exactly would that be?One more question: A friend informed me that he heard that the drive letter access only works on 1GB discs. Is that true? The real reason I want to get it as a storage drive is because you can waltz into any Target, Wal-Mart, etc. and pick up a 5-pack of MiniDiscs for $10 or less. If each disc could be accessed as a drive letter, and hold 305MB of data, that to me sends the Zip into the wind. Even an NH600, if it offered drive letter access, would be a far, far cheaper solution than Zip! (if you can really get an NH600 for $60 or so, and each 305MB is an average of $2, plus the added music ability...) So to reiterate, can the Hi-MD units use classic MiniDiscs as data devices, or only the new Hi-MD 1GB discs?Even so, since 1GB discs average $8 each nowadays, it's still cheaper than Zip 250's or even 750's for price per MB.Also I know everyone says it's Windows compatible, but (while not highly important) it'd also be nice to be able to use the drive letter access on other platforms, e.g. Mac. (I'm not talking about using a Mac to transfer music; just to use the unit as a storage drive.) Basically someone could maybe clue me in: if you can walk up to an XP box at someone's house, plug in your Hi-MD, and use it as a storage drive with NO DRIVERS (only XP's built in ones), then it would work since most other major OS'es recognize standard USB mass storage units. If drivers are required for the drive letter access, it won't work. Not saying I'd shun MD, just something I want to be aware of.thanks againFlintfirst of all, I'd like to say this is kind of "one minute question" for old membersfuzzy, no offense, this sentence is not for u but for other peoplethe checkout thing is outdatedcheckin/checkout only appears in NetMD agemore precisely should be : upload music from Hi-MD to pc, right?Hi-MD portable have no optical out until this momentbut yes, the music u record from optical in can be upload to ur pc with the usbit's simple to do it in SonicStageyes, just like an usb drivebut the speed maybe slower than all the others(zip, usb drive....etc)as for driver, for what I've heard from hk Sony staff is : with usb 1.1 u need to install driverno need to install for usb 2.0no one knows, it haven't been released yetbut look from the spec of these 2nd gen units..... :benefit : mp3 added(both play and record)not good : cannot record in MD modecurrently only 1 model have radio functionbut no, U can't record from it's radio function, u'll need to record from another radio source unitall models(only 1st gen) except NH1 and Nh600/600D use NiMH type batteryNH1 : LithiumNH600/600D : only AA battDRM do nothing with the userit just prevent u from directly copying the music in a MD/Hi-MD to other device and copy for a million timesafter u upload any thing into ur pc and turn it into wav, u can copy it for as many times as u want← Edited March 7, 2005 by fuzzy_aladdin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Thanks for the advice guys, I'm probably going to go for the US equivelant of the NH700. What exactly would that be?That would be the NHF-800, with the tuner remote.One more question: A friend informed me that he heard that the drive letter access only works on 1GB discs. Is that true? Not in the slightest. USB mass-storage mode works with any Hi-MD formatted disc, whether it be 1GB or reformatted legacy MD.Please note that write/read speeds with reformatted legacy MDs are much slower than with 1GB discs According to the current FAQ, "Data Transfer Rate" is:Reformatted Legacy MD: 4.37Mbps 1GB disc: 9.83MbpsI'm assuming these are peak read speeds; write speed should be just under half of this.You will most likely find yourself running back to your Zip250 as it is probably still a great deal faster.Even so, since 1GB discs average $8 each nowadays, it's still cheaper than Zip 250's or even 750's for price per MB.True, but they're stilll painfully slow. Also I know everyone says it's Windows compatible, but (while not highly important) it'd also be nice to be able to use the drive letter access on other platforms, e.g. Mac.USB mass storage mode works with any OS that supports it, including OS X and linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Letson Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I have to concur with dex--I'd find data storage on MD a step backward despite any price advantage. Both ATAPI and USB Zip drives are fast and stable enough to be usable for backup and file transport, but I would not trust my data to a MD unless and until the software got to be at least as reliable as Iomega's. And while Target might carry MDs at the moment, I've seen them drop products like a hot rock. Zip media will remain available at any office supply or computer store, if often at a less-than-rock-bottom price. (But I stock up at sales, as I do with MD blanks.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 ... Both ATAPI and USB Zip drives are fast and stable enough to be usable for backup and file transport, but I would not trust my data to a MD unless and until the software got to be at least as reliable as Iomega's. ←the software's got nothing to do with universal mass storage. it works on all UMS supporting platforms - ie. windows 98se & up, mac OS since 8[?], most linux distros even beos.my only quibble would be the speed but i see it as an added bonus not a primary sales point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony wong Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 let's take a look to NHF800's remote controlif u have ever looked at it, u won't want itsuggestion : buy another model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy_aladdin Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Great, thanks a lot. I probably won't chuck my Zip 250, but for a simple temporary storage solution to shuttle around a document or two or twelve, MD sounds like it will do my bidding fine. Even 2Mbps is enough to even use it as a portable MP3 transport device, and then when the MP3 player units arrive, I'll be able to pop that MD in and listen to them.What I'm thinking of doing is picking up a cheap NH600 now (and using it for listening and storage only, which is pretty much what it can do) and then picking up a recording model when the new generation hits the market. Are they still quoting April/May? (yes, i know release dates are never highly accurate, but still.) I don't really need to be able to play MP3 right off the disc (encoding to ATRAC shouldn't be a big deal), but to be able to connect the MD to a PC and play the MP3's is only that much more convenient. (So, of course, NH600 works as a USB mass storage and all that as well too? Oh, and about the checkout thing: Is it true that for the current generation you're limited to only "checking out" any given file on your PC three times? I'm not exactly looking to put an MP3 on 12 MD's, but I worry about stuff like this. I always want to know exactly how DRM will restrict me. I asked about the drivers because I have seen other drive-letter access devices that DO NOT conform to the USB mass storage standard and required a driver even on Win2k (not XP, but still). Obviously those devices wouldn't work on OS X or Linux. I will avoid ANY product that is designed to store files but doesn't conform to the USB mass storage specs! (still got a Nomad 6GB original jukebox - would actually use it more often if I could access it as a drive letter! Woohoo for the iPod!) What is the point of a portable data storage unit if you have to carry around a CD or floppy of drivers with it? Not to mention loading them onto people's computers...Flintthe software's got nothing to do with universal mass storage. it works on all UMS supporting platforms - ie. windows 98se & up, mac OS since 8[?], most linux distros even beos.my only quibble would be the speed but i see it as an added bonus not a primary sales point.← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 ther is no limit with pc -> md unless the music is purchased from an online store with user limitations. unless you've recorded the music yourself you can't go the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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