Thinking About Some New (expensive) Mics

[javertim]

Not that I necessarily *need* new mics, but I've been looking at these for quite a while:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmhlsomsenmi.htm

It's going to take some time to save up for them, so I just wanted to get some input before I begin doing so. I generally record a lot of loud stuff, though I doubt anything I record would ever make it up to 130 dB. They say the provide "extreme warmth and detail," but are they really going to perform *a lot* better than, say, the low-cost binaurals as made by Core-Sound (the mics I currently use)?

I guess the main reason I am looking at them is because they're so small, and I think I may start to do mics on my shoulders rather than my chest / shirt area in the future as to expand the true stereo sound.

And can anyone explain "Sennheiser Driven" and "20 - 20 Khz"?

Just generally looking for input. To buy or not to buy ...

Thanks! :-)

Tim

[MDfreak]

"Sennheiser driven" means that the microphone-element is from the well know microphone-brand Sennheiser: www.sennheiser.de

20 - 20.000 Hz means that the microphone will pick up frequencies from 20 Hz till 20 kHz (so the whole range a normal human ear would hear).

[bjsilva]

Not that I necessarily *need* new mics, but I've been looking at these for quite a while:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmhlsomsenmi.htm

<snip>

Just generally looking for input.  To buy or not to buy ...

Thanks! :-)

Tim

Perhaps you can ask yourself whether you are dissatisfied with your present mics? I'm not familiar with either of the mics, but I suspect if the ones you're looking at cost that much more than your present mics they probably do have something to offer that yours don't. But I say, if you're happy with the quality and convenience of your mics and don't have extra money to try these other ones out, don't worry about it.

[classicalnut]

I would try to find out the "self-noise" specs on what you have and what you are looking at. The higher the number the more noise included in your recording. I would try to stay anywhere under 15 for self-noise.

[kuba]

"20 - 20 Khz"?

←

It doesn't say much without.. eh.. volume range (?), you know what I mean? You don't know whether the 20Hz is at -3dB or at -20dB...

Damn, I can't speak English

[twoheadedboy]

If you're going to spend $250, I'd recommend something with Audio Technica caps from www.soundprofessionals.com .

I thought when you said "expensive mics" you'd be talking about Schoeps, hahaha

[Wedge]

And don't forget, you will need a battery box to go with your new mics.

$250 was my kind of budget when I looked. I ended up with $179 on a set of Sound Professionals CMC-2 cardioids (and clips), and $79 on an Sound Professionals SP-SPSB-1 battery box with bass roll-off option. Total $259. Well, I also got a croakie mount to go with these, for $7, which I fitted myself.

Another option is standard Core Sound Binaurals - you may be able to get this for a lower cost than standard (standard it comes with a battery box for around $260 I think), as you already have a battery box with your low-cost CSBs (don't you?).

I haven't seen these MM Sennheisers being talked about really. You may be better off going with tried and trusted kit - like the Sound Pros CMC-2 / -4 / -8, or the standard Core Sound Binaurals.

Another possibility with Sound Pros is to buy a set of CMC-8s ($239?) which are slimline premium Audio Technicas. You can buy these either as Omni, or Cardioid. The advantage of these (apart from being great mics themselves) is that you can buy swappable elements for them - Omni / Cardioid / Hypercardioid and another I can't remember. Each extra set costs another $119 last time I looked. If I'd had the money, this would have been the route I'd taken.

[robin726]

A few words about specs.

First, I often ignore frequency range specs, because they are pretty well meaningless when written out. Something like 20-20kHz at least needs a decibel range of error to be specified, but if it isn't the spec is completely useless. If something like +/-3dB is stated then I would know that's a good range, but I would still want to see the actual graph. Because maybe 20-20kHz +/-3dB means that there's a slope from -3dB at 20Hz up to zero at about 80Hz, and then ruler-flat the rest of the way. That would be excellent! But maybe it means there are 3dB peaks and troughs all over the place. That would be suboptimal. :-) The graph will tell.

For people recording concerts (or jet engines) the maximum sound pressure level (SPL) is important. This is generally measured by playing a tone at 1kHz and then cranking up the volume until there is 1% THD (total harmonic distorion, a bad thing). So the higher the number (again in dB), the better. But in many cases that much distortion is too much, and additionally other frequencies may very well distort more than 1kHz. So once again this measure has to be used with a grain of salt.

The signal-to-noise ratio (S/N) is also measured in decibels at 1kHz. This one is more self-explanatory. The higher the number, the more signal you get relative to the inherent noise floor of the microphone. This is less important for people recording loud sources, but critical for those collecting ambient sounds, doing nature recordings, etc. Dynamic range is the diference between the loudest and softest sounds you can get from the mic. So once again the higher the better. This tends to go up in step with S/N.

Using a low power source, like "plug-in power", gets lower dynamic range and SPL scores out of a microphone. That's why people use a battery box; the extra power increases the ability of the microphone to capture sounds, especially loud ones. Phantom power improves the situation even more, but is not always practical for small rigs.

Finally, sensitivity is a measure of how hot the signal is coming out of a mic, and is done relative to a 1V signal going in. It's always a negative number, since a microphone is never going to amplify a signal! The higher the number the more sensitive, remembering that -42dB is higher than -46dB. However this does not mean the mic is "better". Sensitivity is good to know when matching the mic to other equipment. For example, if you had an insanely sensitive mic powered properly with a loud source (a concert again) you might have such a hot signal that you could go into the line-in on a recorder, bypassing the mic-in. Indeed, you might *have* to, since otherwise you'd overload the mic pre-amp. In this way high sensitivity could be considered a disadvantage in some situations.

It is difficult making sense of all of the technical data and comparing microphones without actually using them. Especially when the store web sites are as confusing as www.soundprofessionals.com. It is difficult to make heads-or-tales of some of their info, but I have tried to, since I would like a small stereo pair of condensers for doing location work. If I had a vender on the same land mass with lots of stock who didn't mind me trying out mics, then I'd just do that, since nothing beats hands-on experience. But, alas, it is not so.

Sound Professionals have various low-end mics of their own manufacturing which I will ignore here. Moving up the cost ladder you get to the Audio Technica range, which I presume they have matched as pairs and perhaps even modified. There are basically four different mics, which I'll spec out in increasing order of price (US$). These are omni condenser pairs, suitable for mounting on clips. (I have priced them with a clip, which is sometimes optional.) Omnis are going to sound better than cardioids, since the latter must have their response characteristics compromised to make them directional. If audio fidelity is your primary concern, you get more bang for your buck with omnis.

model: SP-BMC-12

price: $99

S/N: 60dB

dynamic range: 81 / 96dB (plug/battery)

max SPL: 110 / 125dB

sensitivity: -42dB

info: AT350 caps

model: SP-BMC-6

price: $159

S/N: 65dB

dynamic range: 76 / 91 / 106dB (plug/battery/phantom)

max SPL: 110 / 125 / 135dB

sensitivity: -46dB

info: manufacturer link for AT803b cap

model: SP-CMC-8

price: $269

S/N: 65dB

dynamic range: 83 / 98 / 111 dB (plug/battery/phantom)

max SPL: 110 / 125 / 138 dB

sensitivity: -40dB

info: similar to AT853; manufacturer link

model: AT899

price: $275 each w/ power?

S/N: 64 dB

dynamic range: 86 / 108 dB (battery/phantom)

max SPL: 116 / 138 dB

sensitivity: -46 / -43 dB

info: manufacturer link

The SP-CMC-8 can be bought as a cardioid or you can get interchangable caps. It costs $78 to get connectors to run them from phantom power or $120 for the ongoing option of connecting to a battery box or phantom power.

The AT899 is a fully professional piece of kit, used on TV, stage, etc. The Sound Professionals site has no info. If you look here you will see that one will set you back $280 with power supply.

This is not meant as an endorsement of Sound Professionals products. I have not used them. But they should hire me to redesign their web site. :-)

[robin726]

An addendum:

The AT803b has frequency response down to 30Hz with a small hump in the bass and extends to 20KHz with a significant hump or around 8dB at 9KHz.

The AT899 has response all the way down to 20Hz with only the smallest rise at about 40Hz and a rise starting at 2KHz that suddenly peaks at 12KHz. This is a nicer curve for sure, but in practice I doubt it would be worth the large price differential for 95% of applications. I would definitely be ready to EQ down the top end on the AT803b but the sizzle it provides could be very useful.

I think I just found my mics.