Radio Shack Volume Attenuator

[argie1971]

My noobie question is, is it worth using the Radio Shack Volume Attenuator if I'm recording live music at an outdoor venue as opposed to an arena or club? I'm on a limited budget right now and Bike Week is just around the corner. One of the Harley dealerships here in Florida has a lot of good acts playing for free. My stealth rig right now consists of: SP-BMC-2 > Sony MZ-RH910(mic in). Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Edited February 22, 2006 by argie1971

[A440]

Somehow I don't think the Harley dealership is going to be presenting a string quartet.

Unless you use an attenuator ($7) into Mic-In or a battery module ($60) into Line-in, you will overload the mic preamp and have unlistenable recordings. Guaranteed. Bring along your headphones and try recording the opening act straight into Mic-in and you'll see what I mean.

Usually I suggest leaving the volume control on the attenuator all the way up, but if it's really blasting you might want to turn the attenuator down partway. You should still try to keep your distance from the woofers if the music is really loud. Bass overloads the preamp first--the attenuator prevents that--but if it's loud enough to overload the mics themselves, you'll still get distortion.

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

GM you bring up some good points. One of the reasons why we Church Audio do not use a potentiometer in the input stage of the mic, before an active preamp is simple, while you are infact reducing the input level, you are reducing the BIAS voltage at the same time Thus increasing the distortion by starving the FET of its needed supply voltage. LESS bias voltage = more distortion = bad sound. In some cases you can use this and " get away with it". Here is another problem the headphone attenuator. It is designed for HI level signals, not low level signals of a electret capsule. So it is unsheilded because RF and EMI induction is not a problem with a hi level signal. It becomes a big problem with low level signals like the ones comming from a microphone. Thus it will increase the noise floor of your mics in some situations like a concert this might not be a problem. But if you have attenuated too much and have to normalize the crap out of a signal via a computer You will hear that noise.

Chris Church

That's not the main reason for increased noise, basically you lower the signal from the microphone while the noise of the preamplifier stays the same -> lower Signal to Noise Ratio. Even if you have perfect contacts, the SNR will decrease.

[A440]

We've gone around and around on this theoretical discussion. I'm sure you mic builders are technically correct. But n00bs can listen to the attenuator recordings in my Album under Live Recordings and see what you think of them. It's a cheap, practical solution.

For earsplitting or earthquake-level-bass music, microphone to battery module to line-in is best. Attenuator may work but can't prevent mic overload.

For moderately loud music, microphone to battery module to line-in can be too quiet, needing amplification that also amplifies noise. I consider it a toss-up between that and mic--attentuator--mic-in. This is getting away with it, technically, but since you can get away with it, why not?

For quiet, non-bass-heavy sounds, mic straight into mic-in is best. For ultra-quiet sounds, perhaps an outboard preamp into line-in is a good idea, but I've found that an outboard preamp (I've tried both Reactive Sounds and Sound Professionals) clips at levels so low that it's no use to me.

[argie1971]

Thanks for the input.

[geestring]

what am i looking for...

www.thesourcecc.com thats what radioshack is now in canada....

i went to the store and they said they didnt have any....

[A440]

http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product....product=4202559

[Shreadhead]

I just bought one of the RS Attenuators. I sat my Mini disk in front of my Carvin MTS Half stack and recorded with the Attenuator at 50% and without crunched at about 3.5 on the volume. WOW sounded like a big F#@t without and was clean and clear with !! Thanks for this tip guys we run the FOH at my church at about 105db ( with 4000 in attendance and over 1500 of them SCREAMING teens it takes that at the least to be heard over the CROWD ) and I was getting substantial clipping with my MZ-R70 and stereo Panasonic mic set up at the sound booth( see attachment here [attachmentid=1537] from last sundays service as an example) . I can`t wait to try this on Sunday !!

3_12_06_COC_Better_Than_Life_.mp3

Edited March 25, 2006 by Shreadhead

[A440]

It depends on volume and mic sensitivity, but you may not need to turn the attenuator down that far.

For anything but the kind of megabass that makes your eardrums feel like they're imploding, I leave mine on max and just watch the levels on the MD. Just putting the headphone volume control between mic and MD does some attenuation anyway. You can also get noise when you turn the volume knob on the attenuator, so best to just set it and leave it alone, at whatever level you decide to use.

Glad it's helping you.

[Shreadhead]

It depends on volume and mic sensitivity, but you may not need to turn the attenuator down that far.

For anything but the kind of megabass that makes your eardrums feel like they're imploding, I leave mine on max and just watch the levels on the MD. Just putting the headphone volume control between mic and MD does some attenuation anyway. You can also get noise when you turn the volume knob on the attenuator, so best to just set it and leave it alone, at whatever level you decide to use.

Glad it's helping you.

The system at my home church has some SERIOUS bottom end thunder so I will need some attenuation for shure. This test was a worst case situation and it handled it well.I have to guess on the actual record levels as I am on stage playing when the full band is going. I will let you know how it turns out after tomorow.

[bayoubilly]

i just just bought one of these at radioshack. when i was practicing with my stereo turned up really loud, mic sens low, the attenuator on max, i had to turn the gain up to 20/30 to get a good volume, but i don't think it distorted.

there are 2 instores today that i will definately record and maybe a concert later tonight!

the crucial show i really want a good recording of is on monday, so hopefully i will have had enough expierience with it by then.

[Shreadhead]

WOW what a difference !! I used the Atten this morning to record worship and it REALLY cleaned it up !! I will try to post a before and after set of clips later tonight as I had just enough time to take a listen to a little but not edit and down load this mornings service.

[Shreadhead]

Here is a song from Sunday`s service and with the RS Atten in the signal path. WHAT A DIFFERENCE !!

Here is a song from Sunday`s service and with the RS Atten in the signal path. Listen to this and the clip from before WHAT A DIFFERENCE !! THANK FOR THE TIP GUYS !!

3_26_06_My_God_COC_W__RH.mp3

Edited March 27, 2006 by Shreadhead

[beefstew]

Ok, I just bought one of these Rat Shack attenuator controls - which will be my temporary solution for my mics until i get a BattBox.

My question is that, Can i run this Rat Shack Attenuator cable between the Soundboard and my Hi-MD?

[brucebayou]

Ok, I just bought one of these Rat Shack attenuator controls - which will be my temporary solution for my mics until i get a BattBox.

My question is that, Can i run this Rat Shack Attenuator cable between the Soundboard and my Hi-MD?

I recorded once with out the RS Attenuator on a soundboard and it clipped really bad. I wasn't able to monitor the recording so I didn't know it clipped, I had the recording levels on manual and turned really far down, but it still clipped! A few months later after buying one I used it with a soundboard and it worked wonderfully. I'm going to be using it this weekend again, Ill post the results.

[greenmachine]

I recorded once with out the RS Attenuator on a soundboard and it clipped really bad. I wasn't able to monitor the recording so I didn't know it clipped, I had the recording levels on manual and turned really far down, but it still clipped! A few months later after buying one I used it with a soundboard and it worked wonderfully. I'm going to be using it this weekend again, Ill post the results.

Use the line-in when recording from a soundboard.

[canito_40]

Helloes to you alls, from down south looking forward to a recording up north.

Just a quick simple question:

Is this the same thing everyone is talking about?

On Amazon

Thanks a lot in advance...

Edited April 20, 2008 by canito_40

[A440]

That should work.

The one in my signature is the Radio Shack version, and I've tried also tried a Maplin VC-1 from England, but any headphone volume control should work. The Shure might even be better made.

[picklehammer]

Wow. I'm really glad I discovered this topic.

I've been recording with a Sony MZ-R37. I got it, and the Sound Professionals in-ear binaural stereo mics, and a battery module with bass roll-off, just so I could bootleg live sets by one of my favourite local bands. So far, every recording I've made has been distorted. First, I thought it was because I had the auto-gain setting on, so I tried recording with very, very low gain. Still had distortion.

My chain was this:

mics (with windscreens) -> battery module with relatively high bass roll-off -> mic inputs

I'm guessing this is because the really loud environment (4x12 guitar cabinets, 8x10 bass cabinets, large PA system, small club) is overloading the mic preamp. The signal from the mics is too loud?

This attenuator seems to be the solution. Or just plugging into the line input rather than mic inputs. Hmm. Am I right? I can't afford to waste more money, I'm a broke student!

[A440]

Mic-->battery box-->LINE IN.

Mic-in has an amplifier that you are overloading even more with the battery box. That's one cause of the distortion.

Put the volume at 20/30 unless you are trying to record something ultra bass-heavy like reggae or death metal. At a certain point the mics themselves will be overloaded by bass, but most music won't do that.

mics (with windscreens) -> battery module with relatively high bass roll-off -> mic inputs

I'm guessing this is because the really loud environment (4x12 guitar cabinets, 8x10 bass cabinets, large PA system, small club) is overloading the mic preamp. The signal from the mics is too loud?

[picklehammer]

I recorded at 14, through the line in, with the battery box set to 160Hz bass roll off or so. I got a tiny bit of almost impossible-to-notice clipping on bass drum kicks. otherwise, it was really successful. thanks, forum! I bought a radio shack headphone volume thing just in case I ever need it, though.

for the record, I was in a really loud club, recording the band Bison BC (metal) and Hierophant (grindcore)

[A440]

160 Hz is pretty high for bass roll-off. If you are really in a show where they are pumping the subwoofers, you might go to 100 Hz at most, which will give you a lot fuller low end.

The reason is that frequency (Hz) doubles every octave. So A440 is an octave above A220, which is an octave above A110, which is an octave above A55. (The bottom note on a piano is A at 27.5). And the lower the notes you allow the unit to pick up, the richer the music will sound.

The bass roll-off is there for two reasons. One is to try and prevent the mic preamplifier from overloading; it's especially susceptible to bass. But you're not going through the preamp if you're using line-in.

The other reason is to battle the tendency of live sound guys to smother everything in bass. But if what you're hearing in the room isn't bassy, you should go easy on the roll-off.

So why do the bass kicks overload? Because they're overloading the mic itself, and that happens before the signal gets to the battery box.

I recorded at 14, through the line in, with the battery box set to 160Hz bass roll off or so. I got a tiny bit of almost impossible-to-notice clipping on bass drum kicks. otherwise, it was really successful. thanks, forum! I bought a radio shack headphone volume thing just in case I ever need it, though.

for the record, I was in a really loud club, recording the band Bison BC (metal) and Hierophant (grindcore)