Newbee Taper Mz Rh10 Csb W/bass Roll Off Help

[imazephed]

Hi all

I am new to taping just bought a Sony mz rh10, core sound binuarls with batt box and switchable bass roll off. I read the manual and thought I had a decent understanding of recording but was I wrong. I taped The Black Crowes at the Gulfport grand theater Saturday and it came out horrible. The mic's seemed to be overloaded the whole show, distortion all the way thru. I am going to list how I had my rig set and if anyone who knows more about this than me (anyone) can give me some pointers I would appreciate it.

Sony mz rh10

manual record levels steady at 12db the first mark and peaking occasionally past, the manual setting was 8 and 9 thru the entire show.

Mic sens HIGH I guess this was a big part of my problem

core sound binuarls bass roll off filter on filter

mic in

PCM

I saved it from my md recorder with sonic stage 3.0 in wav.

rm mck40 remote to monitor levels i really liked it made it easy to keep an eye on the levels and make changes if need be

I had the mics mounted on a baseball cap at the base where the bill meets the head band this put them facing out and up at about 45 degrees kind of looked like this from the front \___/ ____ this being the bill of the hat and \ / this the mics. The mics were 7 1/2" appart. I stood the whole show and am 6'2" I was just right of center stage 7 rows back. Would it be better to have the mics pointed out towards the stage?

Like I said the recording came out real bad I guess the term is brickwalling? Mids and highs distorted. I need advice on what to do next time to make better recordings. I have read a lot of post since I found this form and I see where someone was talking about the volume does this make a difference I didn't think it had anything to do with recording I had mine set all the way up is this part of my problem if so where should it be? I want to make real good recordings what should I do are the csb's good or should I dump them and get something better if so what. Money isn't really a problem but I don't want to shell out a ton if I don't have to. What about line in? phantom power 48v? Would this be better? Size is the most important thing as I will be stealthing most of the time. Sorry for such a long post with newbee questions but the place seems friendly.

Thanks

Jason

Crowes_Gulfport_2005_04_24_03.mp3

[Ryzir]

I'm not a pro at taping but if you have a Batt Box souldn't you use the line in instead of the mic in?

[Ryzir]

Found this out at http://www.core-sound.com/mics.html

RECORDING AND CARE TIPS

When recording loud sound sources with your CSB microphones we recommend using your recorder's low sensitivity (-20 dB) setting. When recording exteremly very loud sound sources, either use an external attenuator cable (available from Core Sound) or use your recorder's line level inputs.

To prolong battery life, disconnect the microphones from the battery box when not in use.

Avoid installations that would abrade or cut the cable. Do not clip the microphones to their cable and do not severely bend the cables at the points where they enter the microphone cartridge shells.

The cable can be wiped clean with a damp cloth.

[imazephed]

I asked lynn at core sound when I orderd my csb mic's how to run them and he said mic in. I dont think he was happy with my purchase of a hi md recorder I think there in to 24 bit recording. He told me if I wanted to make real good recordings I would have to go with a palm pilot 24/96. I might should have listend to him but I felt that 16/44.1 is very good its cd quality. I know I made a bunch of mistakes but really dont know what to do next time. I like the sony hi md its real small and very stealth. I just want to know what to expect once i get over the learning curve. Any advice appricated.

Thanks

Jason

[Wedge]

From my experience, I'd only use mic-in for acoustic / quiet shows. For any rock shows - I'd go line-in with bbox every time.

The first show I did was with borrowed equipment, and I went mic-in, and AGC. What disaster.

[imazephed]

Sounds like my next recording will be line in mic sens low manual record levels. What about the volume on the rh10 does it have anything to do with recording? I will probably tape the Mule Saturday nite I will post after the show. I hope this one will be much better. Thanks for the help.

Jason

[llywelynbren]

Sounds like my next recording will be line in mic sens low manual record levels. What about the volume on the rh10 does it have anything to do with recording? I will probably tape the Mule Saturday nite I will post after the show. I hope this one will be much better.  Thanks for the help.

Jason

←

If you've got a battery box, you must use the Line-in (with manual levels, of course) : less hiss, wider dynamic range, better all round sound. If you use the mic-in you may as well not bother with the batt box.

You'll also find you'll need higher manual levels - at least 20/30. I stood right in front of the PA at a Mars Volta concert with levels at 20 and could have gone higher.

I've been testing the RH10 for recording live music and have to say I'm not very impressed with it. Even with levels set very high, the resultant wav is very quiet, and though it's easy enough to boost volume in a sound editor it all adds to the hiss. The USB transfer has also chewed a few files, and once they've been uploaded you've had it. Good old Sony won't let you upload a second time, as the disc itself becomes 'protected' (so no use trying to upload it onto a different PC, either).

Gary.

[A440]

What happened was that your mic preamp (at Mic-In) overloaded with rock concert bass, though the rolloff should have eliminated some of that. Mic Sensitivity is, unfortunately, applied after the signal has gone through the preamp, so it's too late. But you should use Low in any case.

You have the battery box so you can run through Line-In, which bypasses the preamp.

It will probably give you a fairly quiet but clean recording that you can then amplify with any sound-editing program.

So yes, Mic--Battbox--Line-In, Manual Volume, Low Sens (though I have no idea whether that makes any difference since you're not going through Mic-In). The volume should probably be fairly high but keep an eye on the level. The mics on your hat sound like a good setup if you're not turning your head a lot.

[kooterb]

I was at that show and recorded it, the Crowes rocked the house!,

with my Sony MZ-NH900 with CSLCB mic-in

AGC set to Loud Music and Mic Sens to Low,Hi-Sp mode,

show came out OK, but a little on the

bass heavy side. If you use the Mic-In and

going to record a really loud show always set

the Mic sens to low and the AGC to Loud Music,

unless of you want to try to manualy set the vol.,

which is kinda hard to do. Using the manual vol.

setting will over ride the AGC setting anyway.

With a battery box you should always use the

Line-In set up from what I'v read.

I plan to move up to a power box soon,

as the Pensacola Spring Fest is coming up in

May and the Crowes will be there.

Hope to get in some other show to

try out the battery box set up.

The Core Sound Low Cost Bi's I have are

great.

I Md'ed Robert Plant at the Beau Rivage

Casino Theatre, Biloxi, MS. and it turned out great.

KooterB

[imazephed]

I Md'ed Robert Plant at the Beau Rivage

Casino Theatre, Biloxi, MS. and it turned out great.

KooterB

Thanks to everone for the info. I think I have a lot better understanding of what not to do and quite a few new things to try. KooterB I have a copy of the Plant show and it is great. I was at the show and was blown away i've seen Plant solo 4 times now and this was one of the best by far, could have been the setting there isnt a bad seat at the Beau its always nice to be 20 feet from one of your favorite musicians.

[jboss]

Yeah, I recorded The Black Keys a week and a half ago. They played twice, once at a record store and again at an actual music hall. The first recording was set to low mic sensitivity and it came out very nice. I accidently switched it to high sensitivity while handling it before the second show and it was overloaded really bad. I wasn't using a battery box or bass roll off, just straight Mic to Mic in.

So, the mic sensitivity was probably a major part , if not the entirty, of your problem.

[nulldogmas]

Wow, I had almost this exact situation on Friday night: Core Sound Low-Cost Binaurals, Sony MZ-NH900, going direct into mic in, no battery box. I had the manual rec levels set to 8/30, and it was peaking at -12dB or just above, but when I listened back the vocals were completely blown out and distorted.

Only later did I realize that the REC SENS was set to HIGH. I have no idea how long it's been like that - the controls on the NH900 aren't exactly user-friendly - but I've been probably getting away with it until now because I have low-sensitivity mics, and haven't recorded any extremely loud shows. For this I was standing right in front of the amps at Maxwell's, though, which may have been enough to overload even the low-sens mics...

I guess next time I'll try the LOW SENS setting, since I'd like to avoid the expense of a battery box - though the post above saying that the mic sens isn't applied until after the preamp worries me a bit. Would a battery box even do me any good, as I think these low-sens mics don't put out enough signal to work with the line in jack?