Recording Loud Shows: Battery Box, Low Sens, Or?

[nulldogmas]

I just posted about this in another item, but I'm not sure anyone's still reading that one, so:

I have a Sony MZ-NH900 Hi-MD recorder, which I use with Core Sound low-cost binaural mics. (These mics have the low-sensitivity option - more about that later.) Until recently, I've used this setup, going straight in to the rec in jack on the MD, for quiet to moderately loud live performances with great results.

Then, last Friday, I went to a show at Maxwell's in Hoboken, which as some here may know has enormous speaker stacks on either side of the tiny room. No problem, I thought, as I stuffed tissues in my ears - I have the low-sens mics to protect my preamp, and the rec levels on the Hi-MD aren't close to clipping (they were peaking around the first hash mark, -12dB), so I'm good to go.

Famous last words. The resulting recording was full of distortion, the vocals all blown out. It's the first recording I've ever made that's completely unlistenable.

The one thing I discovered as I sifted through the wreckage: My MD recorder had its MIC SENS setting on HIGH throughout the recording. This is a bad idea, I know, but I hadn't realized it beforehand - and actually, I think all of my previous recordings had been made on HIGH without any problems. This is, no doubt, thanks to the low-sens mics I've been using, which output a signal 15dB below normal.

(If you're wondering why I bought these things in the first place: I used to have a Sharp MD, which had worked wonderfully with Core Sound's cardioid mics, but when I switched to the binaurals I started getting preamp distortion, as they're much louder and more bassy. Len at Core Sound recommended the low-sens option, so I swapped my high-sens binaurals for those.)

So my question: What now? The way I see it, I have three options:

1) Switch MIC SENS to LOW, and cross my fingers that that was the problem.

2) Shell out the money for a battery box, and go into the line in - though I'm not sure my low-sens mics put out enough signal for that.

3) Shell out even more money for both a battery box and high-sens mics.

Clearly the last is the one that's sure to work, but it's also close to $200 at a time when I'm strapped for cash. So I'm seeking advice: Anyone think one of the less costly options will be sufficient?

[A440]

I'd try Low Sens first of all. I just got CS Low-Sensitivity Cardioids and was at a totally blasting concert and ended up having to amplify the tracks, which came out crisp and clear. I was recording at Low Sens and 19/30.

The LCB's are different from the cardioids--they have much stronger bass response instead of the built-in bass roll-off of the cardioids, and bass tends to be what sets off the preamp. But it's worth one more try.

You could also try the good old Radio Shack attenuator--take a look at the pinned thread.

It would be great if you could post how it works out, too.

[nulldogmas]

I'll definitely report back here on how things work out, though it may be a while - I don't get to that many shows, and not all are as loud as this one was.

Just so I'm clear, though: Setting the MD to Low Sens can definitely prevent preamp overload? Because I'd seen another post here that implied that the High/Low Sens setting didn't come into play until *after* the preamp stage, so I was worried it might not help with my problem.

[A440]

That was my post. With sensitive mics, my preamp overloaded from bass even on a quiet little Norah Jones concert. But your mics aren't as sensitive--bass hasn't overloaded your preamp before--which means it's difficult to say anything definite.

It's hard to tell where your overload is occurring. It could well be the boost from using High Sens, or it could be just the sheer level of signal going into the unit. Since your mics are already cutting the signal because they're low sensitivity, perhaps switching down to Low Sens in the unit would do the trick. If you want to be extra-cautious, then get an attenuator for the next loud show.

[nulldogmas]

I've just been informed by an audio-savvy friend that the LOW SENS setting likely *is* a built-in attenuator, sitting between the mic in jack and the preamp. So yeah, I'll try that first, thanks.

[deadwing]

I've just been informed by an audio-savvy friend that the LOW SENS setting likely *is* a built-in attenuator, sitting between the mic in jack and the preamp. So yeah, I'll try that first, thanks.

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Doesn't the low/high sens setting only apply to auto recordings? That is my understanding of it.

Strange that it's only just happened-I got a similar thing from my first recording (You've posted on it's thread recently) when i tried the auto setting with sens -low and then manual settings with the sens-low setting, and I was getting really bad distortion (There is a sound sample from that recording on the thread).

A440's attenuator trick has worked great for me, and for such a small outlay, it would be worth trying before splashing the cash on anything more expensive.

[nulldogmas]

Strange that it's only just happened-I got a similar thing from my first recording (You've posted on it's thread recently) when i tried the auto setting with sens -low and then manual settings with the sens-low setting, and I was getting really bad distortion (There is a sound sample from that recording on the thread).

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My mics are low-sens to start with, though, which is like having a built-in attenuator. My guess/hope is that that plus the built-in HiMD attenuator will be enough to compensate for crazy-loud shows.

I will pick up a Radio Shack doohickey, though, just in case. Next show I go to, I plan on much experimentation during the opening act, to try to pin down the best solution. (And yes, I'll post sound samples here afterwards.)

[A440]

Doesn't the low/high sens setting only apply to auto recordings?

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Low/High Sensitivity applies to all mic recordings.

The Standard/Loud Music setting applies only to Auto Gain Control.

[deadwing]

That's right, I was confusing the two..I do have it set mic sens low and I've still needed the attenuator - when an Eagles covers band are doing 'Take it to The limit' and you are still getting a ton of disortion then you know that you are going to need another solution before your next death metal gig!!

[nulldogmas]

So my next recording opportunity came sooner than I expected, when a musician I've given live recordings to asked me to come record his new band last Saturday. This time I used the low-sens mics <i>and</i> the low-sens setting on the MD, set the rec levels to 16/30 ... and here's the results:

http://demause.net/music/gachupin

(This is after applying a bit of bass rolloff and very slight treble boost via EQ in Sound Studio.)

Suffice to say, I'm pretty happy with the results. Though this wasn't as loud a setting as Maxwell's, so a true test is still to come of whether this will be enough to avoid preamp overload in all circumstances.

[A440]

They should be thrilled with those recordings. Whatever room they were playing in sounds pretty ideal, too--every instrument comes through the mix, and nothing is echoing.

I'm glad it worked out so well. From the way this sounds, I'm guessing that those Core Sound low-sens binaurals are probably attenuated enough so that bass won't be a problem even at louder shows, but I look forward to your next experiment.

[nulldogmas]

They should be thrilled with those recordings. Whatever room they were playing in sounds pretty ideal, too--every instrument comes through the mix, and nothing is echoing. 

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It's Union Pool in Brooklyn, which is actually a converted garage with a pretty modest sound system. The sound was pretty good that night, but I'd only give so much credit to the room.

I'm glad it worked out so well. From the way this sounds, I'm guessing that those Core Sound low-sens binaurals are  probably attenuated enough so that bass won't be a problem even at louder shows, but I look forward to your next experiment.

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I'm still thinking that I should invest in a battery box once my budget permits, if only for the bass rolloff - the CS binaurals are just insanely bass-sensitive. I'd previously had this one recommended to me, but if anyone has a cheaper/better suggestion, I'm all ears:

http://microphonemadness.com/products/mmebelbatfil.htm

[tenorman]

It's Union Pool in Brooklyn, which is actually a converted garage with a pretty modest sound system. The sound was pretty good that night, but I'd only give so much credit to the room.

I'm still thinking that I should invest in a battery box once my budget permits, if only for the bass rolloff - the CS binaurals are just insanely bass-sensitive. I'd previously had this one recommended to me, but if anyone has a cheaper/better suggestion, I'm all ears:

http://microphonemadness.com/products/mmebelbatfil.htm

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I have both the microphone madness and Core Sounds bass rolloff filters. I prefer the Core Sound.

[nulldogmas]

I have both the microphone madness and Core Sounds bass rolloff filters.  I prefer the Core Sound.

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The Core Sound is the one with the required $30 Y-cable to go with it, right? I'd steered clear of that because it's pricier - can you say what you prefer about it?