Which MD recorder for live recording?

[chriswalmsley]

Hi guys,

I'm a jazz trumpet player, and am looking for a minidisc recorder with which to record live rehearsals/gigs etc. quickly and easily, with reasonable quality. I've been looking on eBay and doing a little research, and would greatly appreciate any advice you guys could offer!

Some minidisc players with mic input do not have mic sensitivity switches - presumably these are ones to avoid?

What about those with USB connections? Is it possible to upload your recordings onto PC or does the connection only work for putting music onto your MD from PC?

Are there any other considerations I should take into account?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

[raintheory]

Any Hi-MD with a mic-input will give you the ability to upload your recordings to PC. Also, I think all Hi-MD models with mic-in have hi/low sensitivity settings.

You should be able to find a reasonably prices 1st gen Hi-MD with mic in on eBay. I'd recommend either the MZ-NH700 or the MZ-NHF800 for starters.

Just be sure to download the current version of SonicStage (currently version 4) instead of using the software that comes with the recorder. You will need SonicStage to upload your recordings.

MZ-NH700 info: http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-NH700.html

MZ-NHF800 info: http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-NHF800.html

Edited June 6, 2006 by raintheory

[jaylen]

I'm with raintheory. The NH700 for starters. The RH10 has an OLED display. The RH1 is the latest and currently top-of-the-line as far as recorders go. That equipment browser (that raintheory showed you) will come in really handy and there are tons of pictorials/reviews of each unit in the appropriate sub-forum (as seen here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showforum=93). Good luck!

[A440]

Ebay will also have a lot of NetMD and even older MD recorders. Ignore them. Bluntly, they are obsolete.

Only Hi-MD uploads, and only Hi-MD records in PCM, which will give you as good quality as your microphone and mic placement can deliver. Hi-MD's best compressed format, Hi-SP, sounds mighty good too.

All the Hi-MD models begin with MZ-NH or MZ-RH . The ones raintheory recommended are by far the best bang for the buck. The recording quality on all the Hi-MD units is the same--what varies is features, display, etc. For recording and uploading, the NH-700 or NHF-800 are superb, and they run on a regular AA battery, easy to replace.

Don't worry about mic sensitivity--it's switchable in all the Hi-MDs. However, when recording music with a mic, you're going to be better off with a $50 battery module

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

into Line-In, where mic sensitivity doesn't matter.

Edited June 6, 2006 by A440

[chriswalmsley]

Thanks for all the advice guys - really appreciate it!

Just a vaguely related question - I own a Creative Muvo N200 mp3 player (1GB Flash Memory), which has an onboard mic - however when I've used it to record gigs/rehearsals the quality has never been that great - hence the quest for a minidisc recorder.

Is there a way I can run a mic through the mp3 player(there's no mic input - so apologies if this is a stupid question - only a line in), or any other way I can utilise this for my recording needs, or is a minidisc recorder still the best way to go?

Also, how much do you think I should pay for a Sony MZ-NH700/800? The range on ebay seems to be £60-£90ish

Once again, many thanks (if any of you have any jazz or biochemistry - my degree - questions, I'd be happy to reciprocate, advice-wise! )

Chris

[jaylen]

Also, how much do you think I should pay for a Sony MZ-NH700/800? The range on ebay seems to be £60-£90ish

I don't have a British pound key, but the lowest that I've seen for brand new and in the box is on eBay from 3 sellers (minidiscmini, pramit, digitallimits2003):

NH700 US$125 (includes shipping, but not sure about international shipping)

NHF800 US$150 (same)

These are their buy-it-now prices. Sometimes if you participate in their auctions, the units can be had for less than that. Good luck!

[A440]

Here's an easy currency converter, Jaylen:

http://www.xe.com

Just looking at specifications online, it seems the Muvo has a Line-in jack as well as the built-in mic.

A Line-in jack calls for an amplified signal. A Mic-in jack has a preamplifier behind it.

You could test the quality of the Muvo's Line-in jack. Get a connector from your stereo so you can connect its headphone out to the Muvo's line-in connection--and see how you like the sound of those recordings. If you can live with them, then mic--->battery module--->Muvo connector should give you better recording quality than the built-in mic for loud music.

Alternately, it looks like you can record the FM radio. Is that hi-fi?

The Muvo's line-in recordings are mp3, which is compressed, and the highest bitrate is 160 kbps, which is less than ideal. (MP3 at 192 or 256 kbps is close to high fidelity.) A minidisc would let you record PCM for higher fidelity.

The weak point of MD recording is the preamp, which doesn't like low bass or loud sounds and overloads easily. That's why many of us use Line-in with a battery module or, for a cheaper solution, Mic-in with an attenuator (Maplins VC-1, about 3 pounds), which helps prevent the preamp from overloading.

Just out of curiosity, try the Muvo's Line-in jack out of your stereo. Maybe it's all you need.

Incidentally, a battery module isn't exactly a preamp, but it sends enough current to the mic to get a strong enough signal with loud music. If you were recording quiet sounds--birdcalls, conversations--you would need to get a preamp to get a strong enough signal for Line-in. And for the price of a preamp, you can get an NH700. So if the line-in recording on your Muvo is weak or too low-fi, then minidisc is what you need.

Listen to some of the music in the Gallery to see what MD can do.

[chriswalmsley]

Whahey! Thanks to the joys of ebay I'm now the proud owner of a MZ-NH700....well, that is, when it arrives (I've only just won it!)

What would you guys recommend mic-wise, for a student on a budget? A £5 plug in battery one, or a slightly more expensivebattery module of some description?

Thanks again for all your help and advice!

Chris

[A440]

Don't get some dinky mic. You'll end up replacing it anyway.

Our own greenmachine makes highly praised, inexpensive microphones.

http://www.geocities.com/greenmachine_audio/

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14388

If you're severely broke, then start with an attenuator (Maplin VC-1) running Mic-->VC-1-->Mic-in on Low Sensitivity, Manual Volume (around 20/30, but experiment with your music and your mics).

If you're handy with a soldering iron, you could also build your own battery module.

[chriswalmsley]

Hi guys, just to double check, is this the version of sonicstage I want to download?

http://support.sony-europe.com/DNA/sonicst...age_dl.asp?l=en

(Version 4)

The version included with the minidisc recorder is 2.0.06

Thanks

Chris

[raintheory]

You definitely want Version 4.

With version 2 you will end up only being able to upload your recordings one time I believe, if you try again after that I think it erases the disc on you. This limitation does not exist in Version 4.

[octoberwoman]

You definitely want Version 4.

With version 2 you will end up only being able to upload your recordings one time I believe, if you try again after that I think it erases the disc on you. This limitation does not exist in Version 4.

Hi guys

Wish I had read this before splashing out on the Sony MZ-G755 recordable MD player; ARGH! I am a jazz bassist (hey Chris, fancy a jam?) and hastily bought this model via recommendation as I needed it to record a gig. Now I'm wondering how the heck I can transfer my recordings to computer and burn a CD??!! Maybe I can sell it on and purchase one of the HI-MD's you recommended to Chris? If I do purchase an HI-MD, can I still use my stereo mic (Sony ECM-MS907)with it? The package says for MD & DAT but I assume you can use it with HI-MD also?

Or can you suggest the best way I can maximise my MZ-G755 and ECM mic purchase in terms of uploading/burning decent quality recordings for others' consumption?

Buy in haste, repent at leisure. I am a muppet.

[A440]

Your mic will work with a Hi-MD recorder. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a whole lot of bass response--only down to 100 Hz--around the G that's the bottom line of the bass clef.

The way to get recordings out of your MD unit is through the headphone jack in realtime.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7070

Or bite the bullet, get the MZ-NH700 and look for a mic with frequency response of 20-20,000 Hz. If you're in England, try greenmachine's omnis, at the web address in post #20.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14388&st=15#

[octoberwoman]

Thank you very much for your help, A440.

Just been to Greenmachine's site. Unfortunately the English part is not up-and-running and I don't speak German. Found the price list page you were referring to. Which microphone would be best for MD/Hi-MD recordings, with the bass frequency you specified in your previous post? I take it it will have a mini-jack end for the input? Also, how does one order from that page/site? Sprechen zie English?!

[A440]

Your ears and your minidisc both pick up 20-20,000K. So do GM's microphones. And they have a stereo plug that goes into the MD unit.

It looks like his standard mics are high-sensitivity microphones, for acoustic music, etc., and the pros are low-sensitivity, for louder sounds. Depends on what you expect to be recording most: amplified or unamplified music.

He also makes a battery module. This allows you to record higher-volume sound (Mic-->battery box-->Line-in) and bypass the over-sensitive minidisc unit's preamp.

Here's a translator: put GM's page into it.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Bestellen is the price list, but he offers a discount to MDCF members (see the Affordable mics thread). You can send him an email under Kontakt.

[octoberwoman]

Thanks again. It's good to 'talk' with people who have far more knowledge than myself. I've just listened back to a recording I did of an amplified jazz trio a couple of weeks ago. True, the sound reproduction from the Sony ECM MS-907 was crystal clear in the treble frequencies and not particularly bassy. However, the bass is there and I could always boost the bass frequency via EQ on my computer/stereo? I've been reading some other forums where people have had problems with an overload of bass and as a result, distortion (due to bass-friendly mics?) so I'm wondering if, with regard to mini disc recording, the MS-907 might be an acceptable compromise between crystal clear sound and undistorted bass-reduced recordings.

Does anyone believe the Sony ECM MS-907 mic is a sound (pardon the pun)purchase for high quality semi-pro recordings or should I really trade it in for something else? If so please let me know soon as I only have 5 days' in which to return it if I'm going to change my mind.

Many thanks for your unbeatable knowledge! (Sony - take note: THIS is good unconfusing customer service).

[The Low Volta]

I really think it is better to use 'bass-friendly' mics (as you aptly call them) as there are ways to prevent distortion (batt-box -> line-in or even the attenuator) but then the bass will really be there

now you say the bass is already in your recording, only pretty quiet... I'm afraid that's only a semi-truth: the bass till about 100Hz is there (perhaps with a drop-off in stead of a cut-off, but still, the bass coming from the lower frequencies is (largely) missing and can't be 'lifted' with eq'ing afterwards

I've recorded lots of shows with 20Hz-20kHZ mics and the bass is great... if it feels too much, you can always lower it with eq... but one can't raise what isn't present in the first place

I love the binaural/omni mics (+ battery box for louder stuff) as they simply give the nicest sound you'll get with an MD

but if you're in doubt, just get yourself SP-BMC2 from SoundPro for little money, try the mics side by side and sell the 'losing mic' on (if they ship real fast it could still be within the period to return stuff )

[octoberwoman]

Thanks for your advice. My gut feeling kicked in before I saw your reply and I've already returned the mic (phew!) Looking forward to getting something much better from this Green Machine chap that everyone keeps going on about.

Glad to have received your posting as it has reassured me that I have made the right decision. Thanks again!

best wishes

[The Low Volta]

haha... nice going octoberwoman... I too switched from a Sony mic to greenmachine's goods! best choice I made in my MD-career

PS: please stick around on these forums and post some snippest of recordings in the gallery once in a while

[octoberwoman]

haha... nice going octoberwoman... I too switched from a Sony mic to greenmachine's goods! best choice I made in my MD-career

PS: please stick around on these forums and post some snippest of recordings in the gallery once in a while

Heh-heh, I'll certainly stick around, no worries. Once I've gotten my chops around recording techniques and produce something half decent, I'll be more than happy to upload and share it (might need some handy hints at that point, though!)