ruthyruth Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hello!I'm just as eager as many others to get my hands on an MZ-RH1 so that I may finally have access to my mountains of standard MiniDisc dictation recordings as audio files on my PC. HOWEVER...Upon reading the installation instructions in the MZ-RH1 manual for the necessary SonicStage software that will allow me to access the ATRAC files on my MiniDiscs and load them onto my computer as WAV files, I became very concerned. The manual states that the software will ONLY install on machines with Windows that has been factory installed. PCs with Windows that has been upgraded or installed after the purchase of the PC will not work. Further, the MZ-RH1 manual states that after installation of the SonicStage software that it is likely I'll experience problems with my Windows Stand-By and Hibernate modes. Mmmm...I wrote to Sony on their website in Germany and also on their website here in the USA asking for a clarification of exactly what the installation of the SonicStage software may do to my computer other than install the described audio software. I NEVER got a reply. I did some research and soon discovered that Sony BMG music has been involved in some scandalous behaviour that has resulted in law suits breaking out against Sony all over the world. This is in regard to their Digital Rights Management software that was included on Music CDs sold by Sony BMG. If somebody tried to play a Sony BMG CD on their PC, the CD would automatically install a "Root Kit" into the computer's Windows operating system WITHOUT TELLING THE OWNER. The RootKit is a DRM product that is in reality a spyware program that is, according to what I've read, impossible to remove from your system. Sony's response has been to offer an "uninstall" software and a replacement of your Sony BMG music CD (supposedly without the rootkit). It appears that the uninstall software makes things WORSE by opening your computer to major security issues. Besides the law suits against Sony BMG, Microsoft promises that it will be issuing a patch that will remove the Sony rootkit from infected machines. It seems logical that if Sony BMG is trying to protect its music CDs with this insidious and dangerous and likely ILLEGAL rootkit software, that they would be doing something similar in the arena of finally offering hardware that will allow us MiniDisc users (slaves) access to our digital content on our computers. ATRAC files after all are impossible to convert to anything useable and now that we can get at them (via Sony's SonicStage software), shouldn't there be concern that we may be infecting our computers with Sony spyware/DRM software by using said software?If anybody knows anything about what may or may not be included on the SonicStage CD included with the MZ-RH1 and what it might do if we use it, please share your knowledge and concerns. Here is a link to further reading on this unnerving subject:http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/14/sony_...ustomer_te.htmlAs much as I would REALLY like to have access to MY audio files, I am very carefully thinking twice before allowing Sony access to my computer.-Ruthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Dunno, but that rootkit business was very widely discussed at the time the story surfaced, and the chances of Sony still doing anything of the sort after the worldwide fuss are pretty small.As for the odd stuff they warn about - well, it causes no problems here on a non-branded desktop and a branded laptop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthyruth Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Dunno, but that rootkit business was very widely discussed at the time the story surfaced, and the chances of Sony still doing anything of the sort after the worldwide fuss are pretty small.As for the odd stuff they warn about - well, it causes no problems here on a non-branded desktop and a branded laptop.Thank you for your quick reply! In the meantime I'm now reading about a program Sony is distributing called "MediaMax" (another type of DRM software) that is NOT mentioned in the EULA of the products that it is being shipped with...SonicStage perhaps...ugh...Also, I just read an article, and you will agree this is astounding, that Sony has been recently caught STILL selling the RootKit infected CDs through its Sony Style stores!!! Talk about insane! Not to mention leaving me concerned that Sony is not as wise as logic and your observations suggest that they should be. "A Consumerist reader discovers Sony rootkit CDs still on sale at the Sony Store in Westchester, NY, despite Sony's assurance that it has withdrawn the CDs." http://www.boingboing.net/2005/12/26/sony_..._still_sel.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin42 Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Well, you *ARE* installing Sony DRM software anytime you install SonicStage-- it's called OpenMG.That said, no one here can put your fears to rest, as none of us know for sure. SonicStage does not appear to install any of the DRM stuff, and the DRM that was on the CDs had more to do with installing drivers to protect that CD than prevent anything else from functioning. Granted, it was so poorly coded that it DID affect other software, but what I am saying is the purpose of SonicStage is different than the purpose of the audio CD DRM.That caveat about home built PCs has been there since at least the 1st gen of HiMD discs. Do some searching and you'll see quite some lively debates about it. As best as anyone can figure, Sony is basically saying "If your computer isn't working 100% right, SonicStage may not work." They don't want to be liable for SonicStage malfunctioning because your PC isn't working right and in their heads, a home built machine may have other issues.It is widely known that "upgrade" installs of Windows tend to be much less stable than full initial installs. (I.e., if you upgrade from Windows 98 to Windows XP, you most likely WILL have some weird problems. This isn't just SonicStage, this is a LOT of applications-- I've seen apps try to tell if you've updated and flat out refuse to install). You should always reformat and install an upgraded OS from scratch. A pain? Yes. But it's the only way to guarantee things work as advertised and you don't cause issues due to old crud floating around.That said I don't think anyone's been denied support. And I don't think anyone's reported running any spyware/virus/rootkit scans on a PC with Sonicstage and finding anything that can be attributed to SonicStage.As I said, all of this is moot since none of us work for Sony and can say categorically that There Is No Problem. The best I can offer is that no one has reported any signs of the concerns you bring up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazyIvan Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 You obviously have not read the terms of service in the installation:AUTOMATIC UPDATE FEATURE>From time to time, SONY may automatically update or otherwise modify the SONY SOFTWARE, for example for purposes of enhancement of security functions, error correction and improvement of updating functions at such time as you interact with SONY's or SONY's designee's server(s). Any such updates/modifications shall be deemed SONY SOFTWARE for purposes of this EULA. You by acceptance of this EULA consent to such update/modification. I brought this up a while back. Basically it gives Sony the license to do whatever they want to the software installed on your computer. Nobody seemed to care at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Pfft. Got ZoneAlarm? Just block all access or have it ask anytime that SS wants to access the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Sony was just covering itself against unusual computer setups--the less they have to support, the happier they are. But in most cases, SonicStage seems to work. The rootkit stuff is now old news. It was beyond stupid, if not malicious, and it cost Sony Music a lot of money, in addition to making their artist roster furious. But it was settled, and geeks who know a lot more about it than I do are satisfied.http://www.eff.org/sony/Sony Music and Sony Electronics are two different divisions of Sony, and when the rootkit happened it was a Sony Music folly. I wish they were separate companies, because then Sony Electronics wouldn't have cripped minidisc in the old days. But that's how it goes. Minidisc is a Sony Electronics product, and lately, Sony Electronics has been gradually removing DRM from SonicStage and building in DRM removal tools. While we can't be ultimately sure that there's nothing bad in SonicStage--or in Windows, or in Realplayer, or in a lot of other programs--I would strongly doubt that there's any rootkit in there. There was a test for Sony's particular rootkit--I think it was naming a file to begin with $, like $Sonyrootkittest.doc, saving it and seeing if Windows Explorer could find it in a Search. I have Sygate firewall installed, and I like it better than Zonealarm. http://www.oldapps.com/old_version_sygate_firewall.phpAnd like Syrius, I don't let apps "phone home" without a very good reason. That includes Windows XP, by the way, which likes to phone home at least once a week. The Automatic Update feature sounds like legalese, though. I've never had SonicStage try to connect back to Sony or update itself. I'm not saying that you should be complacent about every program on your computer, but SonicStage is not one that I worry about much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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