Recording acoustic music at music camp - microphone, sound level

[Peter Y]

I just got my new MZ-RH1 which is quite a change from my old Aiwa AM-F70, so I'm trying to figure out what needs to change in my recording strategy for Fiddle and Dance Camp at Ashokan this summer.

I'll be recording classes in which there will be primarily one person playing a fiddle. I'll also be recording jam sessions in which there will be a number of people playing, and there may be button accordions and a piano; it should still be acoustic or possibly with very minimal amplification at most.

With the Aiwa I got very good results with my Sony ECM-MS907 microphone using the built-in automatic level controls. As I understand it the Aiwa has good automatic level control, I gather much better than the Sony MD recorders. I tried out the MZ-RH1 at our local jam session (several fiddles, hammered dulcimer, recorder, piano) the other night and ended up setting the sound manually at about 22, and even so it was generally centered somewhat below -12 dB. So based on that and what I've read on the MD Community Forums I've got a few questions that maybe those who know more about Sony MD recorders than I can help me with!

1. If the jam session is an indication and I have to set the recording level that high and still have levels barely reaching -12 dB most of the time, could I get away with using automatic level control or am I still better off using manual controls?

2. I'm planning on recording in Hi-SP mode. I could stick with my Sony microphone, or I could get a higher quality microphone. I was looking at the Sound Professionals SPSM-4D, probably with a stand and extension, cable although I'd be open to other ideas. Would I notice enough improvement in sound quality in Hi-SP mode to be worth buying a new microphone?

3. I bought a second battery, but I realized I'm not sure how I'll charge it conveniently. Are there any chargers for the LIP-4WM battery?

Thanks for any advice,

Peter

[smkranz]

1. If the jam session is an indication and I have to set the recording level that high and still have levels barely reaching -12 dB most of the time, could I get away with using automatic level control or am I still better off using manual controls?

2. I'm planning on recording in Hi-SP mode. I could stick with my Sony microphone, or I could get a higher quality microphone. I was looking at the Sound Professionals SPSM-4D, probably with a stand and extension, cable although I'd be open to other ideas. Would I notice enough improvement in sound quality in Hi-SP mode to be worth buying a new microphone?

3. I bought a second battery, but I realized I'm not sure how I'll charge it conveniently. Are there any chargers for the LIP-4WM battery?

Thanks for any advice,

Peter

First, I insist hope that you will upload a couple of recordings of your jams to the gallery...your instrumentation sounds like stuff I would enjoy.

You probably would be OK using Automatic if you want to try it out, but I still think overall you will make better recordings with manual settings. If ease of use is your concern, the RH1 will retain the Recording settings, so you would not have to re-set it for Manual levels each time you record. Your results should be the judge of what settings you use...there's no reason not to increase your Manual level a skooch past 22 if the recordings come out too quiet, as long as you still have a little bit of head room. [Also, make sure you have a relatively strong battery in the mic.] Depending on where your MD & microphone are situated in relation to the player (instructor?) in class, you might want to consider using High Mic Sensitivity there (but not for your jam sessions), particularly if your instructor has a quiet voice. Play around with it in your living room...set it up and speak from across the room to see how it responds at different settings.

Personally, I wouldn't judge my microphone-buying decisions on the recording mode you use. I would make that decision based on getting the best mic I could afford that suits my needs. That said, if you are generally happy with the results you get with the Sony mic you already have, keep using it. I use that same mic for recording acoustic music (banjo, fiddle & guitar) around the campfire, and I think it does perfectly well for that use.

No stand-alone charger is available for the battery. Just make sure they're both charged up from the RH1.

[A440]

I seem to remember reading somewhere--I can't seem to find it--that the Sony mics are extra low sensitivity to begin with. So you should feel free to set the manual recording level higher.

[bchallman]

I did a quick search for your Sony microphone and found this comments on Amazon:

The sound quality is sufficiently clear when recording, but is not sensitive enough to satisfy the most demanding users such as musicians or professional reporters. As the other reviewers have said, you need a relatively loud source as there is no sensitivity switch or zoom feature. It does have the 90-120 degree switch, so you can toggle the range depending on what you are recording.

Seems to me, from this comment, you could use a more sensitive microphone.

Any chance of adding a mixer? That's what I do, whenever possible, for live recording. I'm fond of my Behringer which then gives me phantom power and a whole better quality-level of microphones. And, of course, seperate mics for lead vocals and another for the band, which, in my experience, is the single biggest help for field music recording.

I double-up one microphone on the lead singers mic stand (I have a double clip for the stand) and then aim a stereo microphone at the whole band. It sounds much better than just one stereo mic.

Usually, I can find a power outlet, somewhere, but when I can't, Behringer has a battery-powered mixer which I own but can't fully endorse since I haven't field-used it yet.

Behringer UB1002 Mixer

Edited July 15, 2006 by bchallman

[Peter Y]

Thanks to everyone for your ideas. Probably I will continue to use manual level controls. I will probably have to switch between two or three levels - there will be one level for classes, one for a fiddle-only jam session, and one for a session that's got accordions and piano as well. But once I get the levels figured out it will be reasonably easy to switch between them; and I can even note the settings to save for future years. To smkranz - I set a reminder on my computer to put a sample of the recordings I make up on the galleries when it's all over (mid-August; I'll be home a week, then gone another week) - hope I remember, and I hope you enjoy it!

I don't want to complicate my recording set-up any more than necessary since I carry everything around in my fiddle case and it has to be capable of being put away and set up again quickly in between classes. So a mixer seems impractical to me, even if probably a good idea in theory.

That leaves the microphone as the main concern. I do like the 90/120 degree setting on the microphone as sometimes I only want to focus on the person teaching the class; or in a jam session I want to pick up a particular musician more than others - but sometimes I want to get more general coverage. However, its frequency range is 100-15,000 Hz. I downloaded a frequency generator and did a quick test. Being in my 50's my hearing seems to drop off around 15,000 Hz. However, 100 Hz is quite audible, and notes below that are played quite regularly when accompanying fiddle music on the piano. So although I've always been happy with my recordings, I have to conclude that a better microphone would capture an important part of the music that I've been missing.

The range of microphones is overwhelming, and I know very little about them. Looking at the Minidisco web site, to narrow it down somewhat, the one that looked appealing is the Sound Professionals SPSM-4D, possibly with a stand and extension cable - <http://www.minidisco.com/SoundPro-SP-SPSM-4D> at minidisco.com and <http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSM-4D> at the Sound Professionals web site.

It appeals to me because it's clearly a significant step up in quality and frequency response, seems convenient to use and set up, and preserves the ability to focus narrowly vs. more widely that I have with the Sony microphone. Does anyone know anything about this microphone, or have any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Peter

[A440]

The one that looked appealing is the Sound Professionals SPSM-4D, possibly with a stand and extension cable - <http://www.minidisco.com/SoundPro-SP-SPSM-4D> at minidisco.com and <http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSM-4D> at the Sound Professionals web site.

I haven't used that microphone, because I prefer omnis, but I do trust Sound Professionals for quality and customer service. I like the look of that microphone pair because you'll get true stereo separation with it, which should also help you pick out instruments in your jam sessions.

Definitely get an extension cable. Even with a directional mic pointed away from the unit, I would hesitate to use it the way it's pictured because the MD unit makes an intermittent whirring sound that the mics may pick up. Amplified music easily drowns it out, but acoustic music might not.

With your specialized needs, you might call Sound Professionals and talk to them first to see what they recommend. It's not one of those giant anonymous web retailers. They are quite friendly and they do know their mics.

The potential problem with any mic that picks up more low register is the preamp in the minidisc unit. It doesn't like bass, and can overload easily. (My guess is that's one reason that Sony's mics "for minidisc" cut off at 100 Hz.) It's something you would have to find out by trying the new mic in your situation, since it depends completely on how loud the sound is.

If it does overload, then the quick cheap fix is an attenuator/headphone volume control, about $7 at Radio Shack, and go mic-attenuator-mic-in. The higher-fidelity fix is to get a battery module, about $50, and record through Line-in instead. Either way, I think it is much better to have a full-range mic. Once you hear those recordings you won't want to go back to the 100 Hz bottom end.

[The Low Volta]

I haven't had the pre-amp overload yet with unamplified music, and I fear that using a battery-box and line in will sound much to silent for unamped music.

Still I think contacting SP would be a good idea or you could always contact greenmachine who builds very good mics himself (not really a fan of cardioids either though)

[Peter Y]

Thanks, T.L.V., for suggesting calling the Sound Professionals. It took a couple days to reach the right person since I wasn't home when he called me back, but I just talked to Chris who is apparently the microphone expert. He assessed my description of my recording needs and decided a cardiod microphone would be more appropriate than an omni, since at times I really don't want to pick up some of what's going on. He didn't think an extension was critical with that microphone because it's directional, has a several-inch built-in extension, and is aimed away from the MD recorder, but it wouldn't hurt. Because I wouldn't be recording really loud music I wouldn't need to power it. However, he did say that the SPSM-4 is considerably better than the SPSM-4D since it uses Audio Technica microphones.

After considerable discussion it seemed that with the accessories I would end up buying it wouldn't be that much cheaper than the AT 822, which is higher in quality and also more convenient to use as it's a single microphone with less setup needed. So I ended up ordering that one.

Thanks to everyone for your ideas and suggestions,

Peter