real basic quesion

[soul&folk]

I'm very new to the world of MD recording. I work for a youth group that just starting an hour a week radio broadcast and the studio gives us a minidisc of the show. We bought a MDS-JE500 and I already had an Edirol UA25 interface. So with an optical cable I was able to transfer the show from the minidisc into Audacity, recording in realtime. We've tried it and everything's dandy. Yes!

Here's my question... I'd like to buy myself the least expensive Minidisc recorder for personal use (I'm a musician/songwriter) and then bring the disc to work and transfer it as I've seen I can do. I usually get musical "thoughts" entering my head as I'm driving, or just sitting around the house. I'd love to capture them quickly and later transfer them to the computer. (If I had more money I'd just get myself a Zoom H4 and skip the digital transfer via the MDS-JE500)

Can you recommend the right MD recorder?

Am I right in assuming that this will work with all minidisc recorders?

Oh, one more thing - I'm in the USA- if I read correctly there are more restrictions on MD models in the USA than in Europe because of the music industry's fear of copyright infringement

Edited January 30, 2007 by soul&folk

[A440]

We bought a MDS-JE500

Here's my question... I'd like to buy myself the least expensive Minidisc recorder for personal use

Am I right in assuming that this will work with all minidisc recorders?

Oh, one more thing - I'm in the USA- if I read correctly there are more restrictions on MD models in the USA than in Europe

Welcome to the incredibly confusing world of minidisc. Since being invented, minidisc has gone through lots of changes. New models are mostly backwards compatible. Old models are not forwards compatible.

The MD recorder I recommend to you is the MZ-NH700, which records in full PCM (.wav) fidelity if you want AND uploads the recordings to your computer.

It's $180 here,

http://www.minidiscaccess.com/item.html?PRID=1553219

and behind the recommendation is a long story if you want to bear with it.

If you want to continue to do realtime transfers, you can use many old models available on eBay. My own past favorites include the MZ-N707 and the MZ-R700, but there are many others. You'd be buying used equipment, so obviously use common sense. You would use those units to record in the SP format if you want to use your deck; they have other formats as well because they were released later.

OK, take a deep breath.

First, a good reference for every minidisc model is here:

http://www.minidisc.org/equipment_browser.html

Your MDS-JE500 is pretty old-school, introduced in 1996.

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MDS-JE500+S37.html

So first of all, no, it is definitely not compatible with all minidisc recorders.

It only plays the original minidisc format, SP. Later minidisc units would introduce more compression on the standard discs: LP2 (doubling the length) and LP4 (four times the length, bad sound quality). So if you were to get a standard MD recorder you would only be able to use it at SP if you wanted to do a digital transfer from the deck.

But things have changed in a decade. Along came NetMD, Sony's answer to iPods and iTunes, which allowed music to be downloaded from the computer to the MD. (One-way, PC to MD, not in reverse.)

In 2004 Sony introduced Hi-MD, which allows--fanfare please--uploading recordings to a PC. New discs (though Hi-MDs also can use regular MD blanks) and new formats (which include PCM--same as .wav--and Hi-SP and Hi-LP, excellent and good compressed formats).

Uploading has to be done through Sony's own software, SonicStage, which is not drag-and-drop, but which is now largely reliable. You can find countless complaints about older versions of SonicStage online, but they are largely irrelevant if you have a decent PC running Windows XP with SP2.

Regular MDs won't play Hi-MD discs or Hi-MD formats . Hi-MD will play all the old MD formats. Some Hi-MDs, beginning with NH***, will record to SP if you need that. Others, beginning with RH*, will not, except for the new RH1, the exception to everything.

THe RH1 is about $330, and a great little (very little) unit if you can afford it. But it's up there in price with the Zoom.

Old MD recordings will not upload from any unit--Hi-MD or regular--except the RH1. Depending on how your radio station copies the programs to those discs, you also may not be able to upload those recordings. If they were the original recordings, made directly to the mindisc, you can upload. If they were downloaded from computer to disc via NetMD, you still can't upload (those copyright fears you mention--which, incidentally, are no worse in the US than internationally). You'll have to ask the station.

So: as a new recorder for your music, the MZ-NH700, the most affordable mic-in Hi-MD recorder. For top of the line, with possible uploading of your old SP discs, the MZ-RH1. And as a bargain recorder if you're willing to do the realtime transfer, MZ-N707 (though other people have other favorites).

Edited January 30, 2007 by A440

[raintheory]

Whichever portable you decide on... You'll want to be sure it has a Mic-In if you plan on using a microphone. There are models that have both mic and line-in, models that have only line-in, models that lack both line and mic-in (only usb), as well as player only models...

When in doubt... Check the Equipment Browser as A440 stated: http://www.minidisc.org/equipment_browser.html

Edited January 30, 2007 by raintheory

[atrain]

excellent summation A440, take the advice & go with one of the himd options soul&funk if you are pc based you won't look back.

[soul&folk]

Wow thanks! That's a lot of information!

I think for now I'm going to go with the MZ-N707 just because I'm dedicating any money I'm scraping togethr on mics and preamps for my home studio. The portable minidisc will really only be a "music scratchpad" of sorts and while I may just capture a great performance and want to keep it, most of the time it will only be used as a reference.

Thanks for your advice. I will likely be back to this forum. (Did I read that there are over 51,000 registered users?? Wow!

Edited January 31, 2007 by soul&folk

[A440]

The MZ-N707 was my first MD unit, the one that got me hooked.

It uses an AA battery, which makes a bulge in the back but which I consider a great advantage because you can get another easily if it runs out. (Ditto for the MZ-NH700.)

It has two disadvantages. One is that you cannot switch the microphone between High Sensitivity (for speech, quiet sounds, etc.) and Low Sensitivity (amplified music, anything else louder than speeech). Another is that you cannot adjust the level of input, the recording level, without putting the recording on pause. This was fixed in later units like the MZ-N910.

To address both problems with the MZ-N707, I found the cheap and imperfect solution: an attenuator, a fancy name for a Radio Shack Headphone Volume Control (US) or Maplins VC-1 (Great Britain), basically a volume control on a cord that lowers the signal enough so it won't overload. Usually leaving it turned up to maximum is enough to prevent distortion, but you can also use the volume knob as a level control if you're desperate. Costs about $7. Mic-->attenuator-->Mic-in (red jack).

The more expensive, more electronically pure and slightly better sounding solution is a battery module like this:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

which provides a little bit of power to the mic and goes through Line-in, bypassing the MD's built-in preamp, which wasn't made for loud sounds, especially bass. Mic--Battery module--Line-in (white jack).

There are also fans of the MZ-N900. It's very slick looking and has a High/Low Sensitivity menu setting and some other cute features. But it uses a rechargeable battery and the battery latch needs to be taped shut so it doesn't open in a pocket.

Sharp recorders, no longer made, always had level adjustment on the fly. I've never owned one, but back in the day, live recordists loved them, particularly ones with AUVI circuitry. See what you can find in Ebay and check model numbers in the browser.

[soul&folk]

A440, (great name - are you a robot? ) I really appreciate your clear explanations.

The MD recorder I recommend to you is the MZ-NH700, which records in full PCM (.wav) fidelity

Can this be converted to .WAV format? My home studio software uses WAV for laying down all the tracks.

The MZ-N707 was my first MD unit, the one that got me hooked.

It uses an AA battery, which makes a bulge in the back but which I consider a great advantage because you can get another easily if it runs out. (Ditto for the MZ-NH700.)

It has two disadvantages. One is that you cannot switch the microphone between High Sensitivity (for speech, quiet sounds, etc.) and Low Sensitivity (amplified music, anything else louder than speeech). Another is that you cannot adjust the level of input, the recording level, without putting the recording on pause. This was fixed in later units like the MZ-N910.

What does the MZ-N910 have exactly? A switch for sensitivity as well as a recording level knob?

Edited January 31, 2007 by soul&folk

[raintheory]

Wikipedia, under entry Pitch (Music):

The A above middle C is nowadays set at 440 Hz (often written as "A = 440 Hz" or sometimes "A440", and known as concert pitch), although this has not always been the case (see "Historical pitch standards"). Since some instruments in an orchestra use different key signatures (because of transposition), concert pitch is often used to describe a particular pitch in absolute terms, regardless of notation.

--

Hence, A440... I believe.

A442 is also fairly common I believe, which can lead to problems for musicians when traveling..

[A440]

A440, (great name - are you a robot? )

Can this be converted to .WAV format? My home studio software uses WAV for laying down all the tracks.

What does the MZ-N910 have exactly? A switch for sensitivity as well as a recording level knob?

When you hear an orchestra tuning up, the oboe is playing that A--usually 440 Hz, but sometimes higher or lower at the whim of the conductor.

PCM is .wav by another name, and encrypted. Any file uploaded to SonicStage can be converted to .wav--which removes encryption--on your computer by SonicStage, though the other formats are compressed and PCM is not.

There's a long, bad history of SonicStage encrypting files. Luckily, those days are pretty much over. You can convert files to .wav and do what you want with them. Hi-MD Renderer (free in Downloads here) will also convert uploaded files to other formats: .mp3, .flac, etc. And you can save .oma (Sony's proprietary format) in unencrypted versions, though you still need SonicStage to play .oma files.

It's easier than it sounds. With a Hi-MD recording, you upload, convert to .wav, have fun.

You get 90 minutes of PCM recording on a 1GB Hi-MD disc. Those won't play in your old deck; old MDs (80 minute discs give you 27 minutes of PCM) will play in Hi-MD units. Clearly disc capacity had to be enlarged to make PCM useful.

Uncompressed recording and direct uploading are the big advantages of Hi-MD over the older MD. It's why I'd strongly recommend Hi-MD if your budget can possibly afford it.

The switch for sensitivity is among the menus. It's nice but not crucial. Most MD units had the choice; a few cheaper units did not, and for some reason the MZ-N707 was among those. If you're recording music, I'd recommend mic-->battery module-->Line-in anyway, and a high-sensitivity mic works fine with that. All Hi-MDs with mic jacks have a sensitivity choice.

There aren't a lot of separate knobs on a MD recorder. Recording level is controlled with various buttons or jog wheels, or the remote.

With the MZ-N707, you could change the recording level, but on Pause. In some ways, it may have seemed like a good idea at the time. Every time you change the level while recording, you hear it in the recording. So forcing people to Pause also, perhaps, "encouraged" them not to be fiddling with the level all the time. But since the whole point of having manual level control is to be able to deal with the recording on the spot, it annoyed Sony users until Sony finally came to its senses with the last NetMDs and all the Hi-MDs.