Choosing mic+recorder

[teledynepost]

I want to do some recording/sampling PCM to upload to my computer. Will the MZ-M100 player work with this mic? http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT822

From what I can tell it has a 1/4" adapter, but then would I need an additional connection because the MZ-M100 mic line in is 1/8"? Is this even the right kind of microphone. Maybe you have a better suggestion. I would like full, natural, detailed sound and possibility for soundstaging.

Thanks

[A440]

It's compatible.

From the specs, the mic comes with two different cables, one of which has the miniplug:

"3.5 mm stereo mini plug at output end."

Audio-Technica also has an excellent reputation, and those microphones are widely used. It gets good reviews on Amazon from people recording music:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT822...e/dp/B0002GFMTQ

It's a directional microphone, made to pick up what's in front of it. That may be useful to you if you want to reduce noise from behind you, though not if you want to capture 360 degrees of ambience. (For truly enveloping sound, an omnidirectional microphone is preferable.)

The AT822 also offers some flexibility: a choice between a flat frequency response or one that rolls off the bass if you're recording in a loud, bass-y place. And its signal-to-noise ratio looks very good.

Whether it's best for you is hard to say.

The big question is what you are recording. Loud? Quiet? A performance in front of you? Natural sounds all around you?

Also, how will you be using the mic? Mounted on a stand? Held in your hand? (Moving around a directional mic will make your recording fluctuate.)

It may well be exactly the right mic for you. But more details would help.

[teledynepost]

I haven't done recording before but I would like a fairly coherent stereo sound, but not necessarily omnidirectional. i want to get some 'samples' onto mycomputer for manipulation. besides just learning and experimenting (I haven't done anything like this before) I have some friends that play music but no way to record it. This would not be at concert levels, just smaller amps and drums.

Edited February 11, 2007 by teledynepost

[King Ghidora]

I like my Nady CM-2S mic which is very similar to the AT822 but at about half the price. You can hear a small sample recording of it here if you're interested. It sells for $119 so it isn't something you have to mortgage your house for. I think it does pretty well with stereo imaging too BTW. We're having a discussion about that in another thread if you're interested in what others think of it in that regard.

BTW A440 I always understood that one of the main purposes of having a bass rolloff switch is that most wind noise shows up in the lower frequencies. So recording with the rolloff on reduces wind noise. BTW the Nady CM-2S also has a bass rolloff switch. Essentially it was built as a copy of the AT822. It even looks almost identical the the AT.

[A440]

That's a nice sample, KG, and you're right--there's clear stereo imaging.

Do you use an XLR-to-miniplug adapter with it? And do you have it mounted or do you use it handheld? Is handling noise a problem?

When I've gotten wind noise, it goes through the whole spectrum, but it's probably something like pink noise: the all-frequencies whoosh of white noise with more lower frequencies in the mix. So maybe bass rolloff would help.

Teledynepost, a directional mic would help you get more focused samples of sounds you want to isolate, so it sounds like a good idea. And even with small amps and drums, things get loud, so the medium sensitivity of the Nady CM-2S or AT822 would also be good.

[King Ghidora]

Yeah it comes with 2 XLR to miniplug adapters. One has about a foot of cable and the other is a 12 foot cable. It isn't a balanced mic though so no special conversion cables are needed. Just a direct connection from the XLR connectors. I have a better XLR cable that I use for long runs and then just connect the short adapter so I can connect to my MD.

You can't use these handheld AFAIK. I have a variety of mic stands that I use with it and sometimes I mount it to one of my video cameras. In the sample I had it mounted to a desktop type mic stand which I place on a coffee table pretty much in the center of the room where the band is playing. I use a shock mount with it to avoid any vibraration issues.

It's my understanding that one of the primary reasons to have a bass roll off switch is to reduce wind noise problems. You'd be surprised how much of the noise you get from wind is below 100 hz. Dealing with the proximity effect is another big reason for having a bass roll off switch but of course that can be avoided by just not getting too close to the mic. I found an explanation for the use of roll off filters on this web site. They said, "Roll-off filter: a circuit that attenuates a signal that is above (lowpass filter) or below (highpass filter) a specified frequency. For example, microphones frequently have a bass roll-off filter to remove wind noise and/or excessive breath pops." I've seen this said several times actually. I'm sure we could find other examples on the net.

BTW what did you think of the quality of the Nady mic? I know it's just one sample but I like to get other opinions so I can avoid the "I bought it so it must be good" kind of thinking. Feel free to tell me what you think.

[A440]

I think that mic sounds quite good. I would be curious to hear it in other kinds of music.

Was the band playing through a PA or acoustic? The highs--the mandolin--are very crisp and clear, and the two guitars are nicely separated. The vocal sounds a tiny bit echoey and nasal to me, which would make sense if the singer is using reverb with a mic--otherwise that seems like a bump in the frequency response. And there's no deep bass in the music so I can't tell anything about that, but I see that the frequency response goes down to 30 Hz so it's probably solid down there too.

You very neatly sum up a frame of mind I know I have succumbed to myself:

"I bought it so it must be good" kind of thinking.

[King Ghidora]

The only thing that was amped was the bass guitar. I tried to get the bass player to turn up the volume all night which would have given it more deep bass. She mainly plays in the upper registers of the bass so there still wouldn't be a lot of deep bass but what was there would have been picked up better. Essentially I couldn't hear the deep bass sitting there while they played so it's no surprise that it didn't show up on the recording.

The singer has a definite nasal quality to his voice. That's just his style. The mic does tend to pick up some echo in a bright room but it isn't real bad as long as the level is set correctly. Of course the room acoustics plays a big role in how much echo you get in a recording. This was just an informal practice session so I don't get picky about setting up to avoid such problems. The room really isn't that bright either but the singer is basically setup close to a corner so there is going to be some echo. That's likely why the singer had an echo and the various instruments didn't. I try to set up to compensate for the acoustics as best I can but I have to deal with the fact that the mandolin is a much louder instrument than a guitar and dealing with that has to be my first priority.

The setup is pretty goood for creating an interesting sound field. I actually tried to get the mandolin player to swap places with one of the guitar players so I could get more volume from the guitar. I pretty much aim the mic to keep the mandolin just out of the pickup area just so I can keep the volume of it down. It's not a perfect situation but it keeps the mandolin from dominating the recording.

Again there are some other changes I could make to get a better setup but the guys really care more about just being able to hear how they sound. They feel like they aren't ready to try for a high quality recording.

Yeah there's a lot of that "I bought it..." kind of thinking that goes around. I like to buy mics from Musician's Friend because they give you 45 days to try out what you buy. You can send anything back for any reason during that time. I think I would have sent the mic back if it wasn't up to my expectations but I'm human too. I could have talked myself into thinking the Nady sounded better than it does. But I think it's definitely worth the $119 I paid for it. I didn't think twice about sending it back. I've heard it in direct comparison with the AT822 (because it was made to mimic the 822) and I thought it stood up very well when compared with that mic (which costs about double the price). It's good to hear someone else with knowledge of good equipment say that it sounds good though.

[teledynepost]

I like my Nady CM-2S mic which is very similar to the AT822 but at about half the price. You can hear a small sample recording of it here if you're interested. It sells for $119 so it isn't something you have to mortgage your house for. I think it does pretty well with stereo imaging too BTW. We're having a discussion about that in another thread if you're interested in what others think of it in that regard.

BTW A440 I always understood that one of the main purposes of having a bass rolloff switch is that most wind noise shows up in the lower frequencies. So recording with the rolloff on reduces wind noise. BTW the Nady CM-2S also has a bass rolloff switch. Essentially it was built as a copy of the AT822. It even looks almost identical the the AT.

Thank you for the recommendation and the sample, this is more around the price I wanted to pay but hadn't found aything that good yet.

Edit: and found it for 106.90 with shipping

Edited February 12, 2007 by teledynepost

[teledynepost]

Hey I finally got around to ordering this Nady CM-2S mic and the right channel gets nothing! I took it to my father who has a bit of music equipment and we hooked it up with the 2x1/4 adapter as well, still only got one channel. He said by looking at the XLR connector on this mic that it is the same as his mono mics-- it has 3 pins. 1-2-3. Is this truly a stereo connection? I ordered from Adorama http://www.adorama.com/

What do you think? Broken mic or...something weird.

[Strungup]

Hey I finally got around to ordering this Nady CM-2S mic and the right channel gets nothing! I took it to my father who has a bit of music equipment and we hooked it up with the 2x1/4 adapter as well, still only got one channel. He said by looking at the XLR connector on this mic that it is the same as his mono mics-- it has 3 pins. 1-2-3. Is this truly a stereo connection? I ordered from Adorama http://www.adorama.com/

What do you think? Broken mic or...something weird.

The AT 822 has been in my arsenal for a few years , for ambient it is all I will use , I have the sony ecm 959a as well and I like the cable that is on it better than the AT822 but I still use the 822 .

My two cents , if you send the mic back because of the channel prob get an 822 you won be disappointed , it is a very nice mic.

try a cheap stereo cable , cut off one end , strip the wires , plug the uncut end into the MD mic input , set it to Pause /Record , put the headphones on and touch the wires ends , with your fingers , and listen for scraping sounds on bothe channels , if you still dont hear anything on the right channel , the MD's input has a problem.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[A440]

try a cheap stereo cable , cut off one end , strip the wires , plug the uncut end into the MD mic input , set it to Pause /Record , put the headphones on and touch the wires ends , with your fingers , and listen for scraping sounds on bothe channels , if you still dont hear anything on the right channel , the MD's input has a problem.

Or just plug in your headphones to the mic jack and flick each headphone with your fingers. Headphones act like weak microphones, so you can use them to test the mic jack.